namepeace said:

You are right, namepeace. It's getting easier and easier for me to do. Check my sig.

klaatu said:

And it is because some of us see him as a human that we find it appropriate to criticize certain decisions of his with which we take exception.

klaatu said:

TRANSLATION: I'm out of my element in this argument, so I'm going to remove myself from it by trying to come off as having the semantic upper hand.

Anxiety said:

Some Orgers kill for that last word, don't they Anx?

Anxiety said:

nope i really have more important things to do! such as my master's thesis for example!

Tom said:

Tom, I'd recommend any site author/owner consult a lawyer before putting up the site, and provide the necessary disclosures and disclaimers on the site entrance. That way, if P puts the screws to the site, the bases will have been covered.

Anyone who fights P on these issues will win, not because of the legal issues, but because Prince hates making recorded statements and will not give a deposition. I honestly believe that if the site's lawyer notices the deposition of Prince Rogers Nelson the case will be dismissed or settled. As I understand it, that's what happened in the Uptown litigation.

But if you don't have good legal advice upfront or the cash to pay for a good lawyer, your chances of succeeding are weaker.

klaatu said:

Yet you return for another crack at the last word!

theblueangel said:

i never said he was or was not more selfish than us, just said that fans are selfish. He's just human for God's sake not a hero!! And I'm far beyond idolization! i've passed that age believe me!
[This message was edited Mon Jan 19 11:14:51 PST 2004 by klaatu]

Anxiety said:

Couldn't resist

Dansa is absolutely not over-reacting. I have felt this way for a long time.

This thread shows just what a complicated issue this is. Since it involves the thoughts and emotions of many different people, it is going to be complicated.

Do I "hate" Prince? Absolutely not.

Do I want to give up on him and stop listening to his music? Absolutely not.

Am I tired of spinning on these issues? Absolutely.

Am I tired of Prince's contridictions? Absofuckinlutely.

Do I think that Prince gives a shit what I'm tired of? No. But does that stop me from having my thoughts and feelings on the matter, or expressing them. Nope.

Frankly, Prince is tilting at windmills when it comes to bootlegs. Bootlegs have been around ever since you could put a tape recorder up to the radio and tape your favorite song. Does that mean he has to like them? No.

But I'd love to see what he might have put out if he wasn't wasting so much time and energy on shutting down fan sites or blaming the music industry for whatever he feels his woes are.

klaatu said:

Don't you have to go hold a football for Charlie Brown or steal Linus' blanket or something?

Whatever you feel about it, the subject seems to be escalating more now than ever - arguments that seemed to be tucked in the fringe of this whole debate are rising to the surface, and questions are being asked that have been all but ignored in the past.

I think it's time to heat up the ol' jiffy pop and have a seat...

Nothinbutjoy said:

---
Bootlegs have been around forever but, they are still illegal. You guys act like you never heard of copyright laws. Prince and the music industry in general are losing their shirts due to illegal downloading and bootlegging.
Sooner or later the free ride was going to come to an end. I think we all had just better accept that the days of free music are over.

I still dig the man's music and could care less about some website being shut down.

laurarichardson said:

Bootlegs aren't going anywhere. I couldn't care less about the record execs losing their shirts and if Prince is losing his, he is in control of whether or not to release the music he has stashed away. He could, therefore, take the power away from the bootleggers but he rather sit back and act like a spoiled brat over it. Yes, I know boots are illegal and there is no rationalizing that part of it.

laurarichardson said:

Legal or not, up until very recently, Prince has always acknowledged the circulation of his "unreleased" material as a matter-of-fact reality of his musical legacy. When he was struggling with WB to "free the music", bootlegs were okay, but now that he's past that, we're all expected to do an about-face and "accept that the days of free music are over"?

Sorry. Ain't buyin' it.

It's time for the little purple furball to hang it up

Another interesting thought. If Prince thinks he can bully around independent fan sites simply because he can afford a lawyer to pursue it, then what would happen if it was 100+ web sites instead of just one or two. I mean, mulitply his legal costs so much that he just gives up on it.

If a bunch of us on here take the content on these sites and mirror it at 100 or so other locations, he would have to sue every one of them to get that information off the web. Would he be willing to loose that much money?

Anxiety said:

Touche'.

Interestingly. I received an org note from someone I never heard of asking me where I got the downloads for my bootlegs... I informed him that they were a gift, and I have absolutely no information on downloading sites.

Wait a minute baby gurl... Momma is putting on her thinking cap and hip hugger bell bottoms..

sag10 said:

yay!!!

Did anyone see the recent South Park episode about downloading music? It was priceless.

Anxiety said:

---
Of course he cares now. It is effecting his pocketbook. It is called survial. We all have bills to pay and Prince is no different from anyone else. If bootlegging is effecting his lively hood or if he just thinks the material sucks he is going to take action. He has done it before and unlike some people on this site I realize that will not change.

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

---
It is obvious that for whatever reason he does not want this material out on the market. The whole point of leaving WB was to do what he wanted when he wanted. Well not putting out this material himself appears to be the way he wants it.

TRON said:

Yes, it seems that Prince may not be able to afford another purple Prowler if we continue to trade music.

laurarichardson said:

If you think that, just by way of royalties alone, Prince is not set for life, you are kooky.

Maybe he can't afford to have camels imported to Paisley Park at 4 a.m. anymore and maybe his credit is bad at the canemaker's shop these days, but it ain't anyone's fault but his if he can't be more responsible with his dough re mi.

He was making big bucks in the eighties and early nineties, and the bootlegs were flowin' then - heck, he even said he was making crazy money off Crystal Ball - so I'd be willing to wager that this is more about control than it is about money.

Just sayin'.

laurarichardson said:

Uhhh. yeah... Prince and the music industry are really hurting for money. I think I saw Tommy Mottola at the unemployment office the other day.

Are you for real??? Go watch that Southpark episode mentioned above.

And more importantly, bootlegging isn't what the industry has a problem with. That's downloading or file sharing. Which is a "problem" because that is copyrighted material which they'd prefer you buy at retail.

The issue with bootlegs, is that they are not available at retail. There are no "lost dollars" involved because we can't buy these things at retail. I know I for one, and I'm sure most of us on here, would pay TOP DOLLAR to buy live recordings of P concerts or outtakes albums at retail, via NPGC, wherever, if he would give us the chance!!!

The only $$ being lost are from opportunity cost because P and the labels don't provide a legal alternative.

Please dont' start confusing the issue with the whole Napster thing which is a whole other can of worms.
Thanks.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

The exact reason you are all getting so het up is that Prince is taking action against those that actively promote bootlegs. So in effect what you are saying is boycott the official realeases as without us he is nothing means you support the bootleggers more than you support him. Ya think that without bootlegs he would not be the international success he is? How can getting material that is not played on radio, listed in any charts etc etc attribute to an artists success? It is the released material that does this and only the released material.


You all (all as in those that support bootlegging) act as if you have been wronged. You are the ones in the wrong. Copyright laws state that it is illegal. Let alone the moral and ethical issues at stake.

67TBirdHeartAttack said:

It is illegal to sell bootlegs. It is not illegal to list them on a website.

Good to see you believe in freedom of information!!!

NEXT!

no one here has met "Many" when she was working for Mr Nelson? maybe that she'll be more "open" and then will be able to say one thing or two to her husband..

Tom said:

I think this is a FANTASTIC idea...and although I might need a little tech coaching (ahem), I'd be more than willing to do this...he can take my ass to court. Hell, it'd be a great story to tell.

67TBirdHeartAttack said:

The argument that you continue to ignore is that the sites being shut down WERE NOT PROMOTING BOOTLEGS.

Let me repeat that for you:

The sites being shut down WERE NOT PROMOTING BOOTLEGS.

One more time for the folks in the cheap seats:

The sites being shut down WERE NOT PROMOTING BOOTLEGS.

The sites in question were merely discussing the quality of bootlegs - not providing a service to acquire such recordings, not providing resources by which people could acquire such recordings.

If this defines "promotion" to you, would you demand that true crime websites be banned because they promote murder and violent crime? Would you demand that cnn.com, msnbc.com and other news websites be dismantled because they often report on (oops, PROMOTE) illegal activities?

I would like you to explain how one action is appropriate and another action might be considered absurd.

Prince is bullying the people who maintain these sites because he knows they can't afford the legal fees, not because he knows he has a proper legal leg to stand on. That, my friend, is called BULLYING - and I think it's classist, disgusting and mean.

I will agree with you on one point, however - I think it is kind of silly and beside the point to suggest a boycott, when it is not the music that is in question but rather the attempts by Prince to stifle the expression of his fans.