Because you are currently in your 30's and never really liked hip hop- so when Prince started messin' with hip hop you were like, "What the hell? This isn't that avant purple 80's sound I am used 2!?"

TOTALLY AGREE!!! Some of the older fans are so down on everything he did since '88. I never understood why! I know some of it isn't as consistant, but hell most those albums are still funkier than anything else on the planet!

You're right: I'm in my 30s.

You're wrong: I LOVE hip-hop.

GOOD hip-hop, that is.

skywalker said:

[This message was edited Sun Jan 11 12:38:53 PST 2004 by rdhull]

Anxiety said:

Anxiety-

Are you down on most Prince music after '88?

I just didn't like Prince trying to do what everyone else was/is doing. His albums from 82-88 are still years ahead of everyone else to this day. I was so disappointed when he added a rapper to the band, to me, that was like the Beatles or the Stones adding a rapper to their band. I like when Prince makes music because it's flowing from him, to me TRC was like that. Sure, I don't like 80% of the lyrics, but at least he sounds sincere singing them, and the music is awesome. But the last album that I loved all the way through is Lovesexy.

skywalker said:

i dunno about you, but i am nowhere near my 30s. as for hip-hop, i like the old-skool stuff.

what's to be said for my situation, since you seem so sure as to why i don't like the post-'88 stuff?

I'm in my 30's digging Prince since '84...

But Prince can't rap...

Tony I'd rather forget...

Most rap from whenever 'till present is shall we say 'poo'

Mr Mathers is one of the only people who has it, the guts to say what he feels and no pretending, the balls to record and put it out etc etc.

There are other great rappers out there, but most of 'em chat shit, not from the heart...unlike Mr Mathers...is'nt the reason we like Prince is because he sings it like it is ??

skywalker said:

You assume an awful lot about a whole lot of very diverse people.

skywalker said:

nope. sorry, gotta disagree...

yup I'm in my 30s. (gettin towards 40 even)

But sorry, i enjoyed hip-hop from the start...and i'm actually old enough to remember experiencing its early days first hand. And I still enjoy hip-hop...but as someone said...the key word is 'GOOD' hip-hop. Prince did NOT do GOOD hiphop by any measure of the word.

I don't hate EVERYTHING Prince did post 88...again like another poster, I really enjoyed TRC...thought it was a VERY good record musically and production wise...loved it for that. I didn't think it was as clever lyrically though, but other than that that was the best complete prince record in years.

Unlike many here I actually liked "Come" & upon reflection "Chaos & Disorder" too for the most part. Mostly they seemed like honest records emotionally speaking.

Other than those records, between 1988 and now there have indeed been some individual Prince songs that have really connected...but as far as complete albums and production goes, it has been pretty uninspired and derivitive...

...where he was once setting trends, he had begun to follow them...where he once seemed to trust his own instincts, he now seemed to second guess himself...where he once seemed to GENUINELY be concerned 'only about the quality of the music' he now seemed more concerned with the popularity factor, getting back to the top etc. He seemed to want to be 'Prince popular star' more than 'Prince trailblazing musician'...with the exception of some scattered tunes, lyrically his stuff seemed to be less personal, less sincere, just less creative. Again, there are exceptions, but on the whole...ehh.

so there you go, thats pretty much it really...thats why I'm down on some (but not all) of the stuff since 1988. Perhaps his stellar consistent track record till then set the bar too high? I don't know. I still think the guy has the goods if he could just tap into that 'zone' and really trust himself and be truly creative again...TRC gave me hope that the potential is still there...so I'm still listening out for the guy...but in the meantime there are other artists out their who are indeed doing what i had hoped he would be doing...sticking their necks out and focusing on the music and exploring all it can be...being completely open and honest in their expression of their art...they're the ones who have got my attention these days...

but like i said...i'm still listening out for the little guy

skywalker said:

Because you are currently in your 30's and never really liked hip hop- so when Prince started messin' with hip hop you were like, "What the hell? This isn't that avant purple 80's sound I am used 2!?"


You assume an awful lot about a whole lot of very diverse people.

___

I should have phrased it like that, if only I gave it a little thought...The over 30 bit got me, I still liked Prince shame about some of the sounds...

When "Come", "Gold Experience" and "Emancipation" were released they did take a little while to grow on me. But today, if those albums were people, I'd be their bitch.

Yes, in my 30s and quite secure in loving all types of music, including hip-hop.

Prince fell off. Deal with it.

No, I'm not in my 30's yet, and yes, I do like Hip-Hop(alternative, underground & old-school. ).

Look, it's not that I didn't like his post-88 stuff, it's just that a lot of it is inconsistent. I mean, I could still groove to "Chaos & Disorder" and, uh, that symbol album(even though it is a little dated now).

I said before that he will probably never re-create his past masterpieces of the 80's or reach that peak again. He's getting old, what can you say?

Wait, I just thought of something. I think his 90's stuff was him just trying to be more commercial and keep his legendary status, even if it meant compromising his artistic intergrity. That rap stuff that he was doing in the 90's was just him trying to "go with the flow".

Big mistake.

It might've been cool at the time, but now we just cringe at it because (and I'm open for arguement on this too, folks) Prince wasn't really being himself 100%. Rap was in full bloom and I guess he was trying to get with it to keep his "street cred" or something. Either that or maybe it's just because he was trying to take on a new genre. You know our hero never sticks to one style of music. Rap was probably just one of the many things he wasnted to add to his bag of tricks.

I guess we'll never know.

Or maybe, like me, they like/love hip hop and saw Prince's 'attempt' at it as forced, lame, and contrived

Maybe, though. I'm probably wrong, since you seem to know everything
[This message was edited Sat Jan 10 17:09:38 PST 2004 by lovebizzare]

skywalker said:

Nope. Love the Batman soundtrack, and love bits and pieces of everything after that - "Come" is one of my favorite Prince albums of all time, and I'm one of the VERY few defenders of "Chaos & Disorder" - but the man could not pick a decent rapper to save his life. Tony M? Doug E. Fresh? That fool on "Da Da Da" and Dancehall Danny on "Dig U Better Dead" (or is it "I Rock Therefore I Am"? it's been a while...)? Ay yay yay.

I'll say this, though - I've always thought it's cute when Prince gives rapping a go on his own. He sounds like Ice T on helium.





old ass edit
[This message was edited Sat Jan 10 18:40:49 PST 2004 by Anxiety]

You know, it's an interesting thing about being the age I am and getting into hip-hop. When I first started really digging on it, it was the late 80s/early 90s, the first Bush was in office, and I found myself really into groups like Public Enemy, Disposable Heroes of Hiphopracy and Consolidated because these were groups that had the balls to come out and say "our country is fucked up and it's because of our creepy-ass government" - unlike what passes for hip-hop today, there were rappers at that time who were saying what we were all feeling, and they were working hard to be heard. There was a healthy alternative to the Vanilla Ice/Marky Mark BS that was dominating the airwaves. Rap was to the first Bush Administration as the protest music of the folkies were to the Vietnam War era (remember Body Count's "Cop Killer" and the mess surrounding THAT?). And there was damn strong music by De La Soul, DJ 900ft Jesus (what ever happened to HIM??), Tribe Called Quest...hell, even Arrested Development had it down during that period...stuff that was catchy and fun and different and thoughtful...and with all that amazing stuff going on in hip-hop during those years, what was Prince latching on to? Silly proto-bling-bling silliness by way of grade-z nobody rappers dressed up in Wizard of Oz elf suits - and THEN, to add insult to injury, for some reason he had his "gameboys" choreographed to look like they were humping him and each other when they'd do performances on talk shows...WTF?!?

To his credit, we got "Money Don't Matter 2Nite", but at the same time we were getting stories about the crazy money he was getting from WB at the same time...and we all know where THAT led.

Meanwhile, when some of the best, most adventurous, most ballsy hip-hop records were being made, and when Prince was at the pinnacle of his career as a music industry heavyweight, it was all about "Jughead" and "how you gonna make that booty boom?". Whatever.

I think Prince has come around since those days, and I think his view of hip-hop has widened a bit, but you can't deny that there was a time in which he was taking the wrong damn path musically for the sake of appearing "down", when the whole time people were loving him because he was famous for not catering to the flavor of the moment. It was all about "what's he gonna do next? What's his crazy ass gonna do on the Grammys THIS year? Is he gonna wear a sparkly purple cowl or what?" But then it all got way too self-conscious and his media spectacle started coming off as surreal and desperate and the man took a dip, and he's still digging himself out of that hole, and in so doing, I think he's changing the gameboard around completely in terms of how he wants to be perceived, and YEAH, by his own design, good and/or bad, it's a different trip to dig on Prince and his music these days than it was pre-Lovesexy.

Meanwhile, you gotta wonder why Tony M. and the Gameboyz weren't invited to the Family Jamm. Hell, Sheila even invited Apples, and she can't sing her way out of a wet damn Kleenex box.

Now, all that said, I will STILL say that there are tunes from D&P and O+> that I like - some that I think are seriously good songs, and some that are cheesy "guilty pleasures", and some that may not be favorites, but don't send me lunging for the "skip" button. But in terms of the vibe of that whole era, even though he was still making hits, he was way behind where he shoulda been, and in my opinion, lost in his own excesses.

Anxiety said:

In my 30's, like hip hop... but Good hip hop.

Tony M was a joke... his so-called rapping didn't even show an understanidng of rythm or cadence (and unfortuantely he taught that to Carmen Electra. . ugh).

What everyone else said pretty much sums it up.

There's a TON Of crappy Hip Hop out there.

I am 35. When I was 15 I would buy anything Prince put out whether it was good or not.

As you age, you start looking past the face value of things.

the3rddoctor said:

I was gonna fess up that I still get all his stuff whether it's good or not, then I realized that to this day, I still haven't picked up a copy of 1999:TNM...

Anxiety said:

I bought that thinking this great new mix was gonna explode all over my stereo.

Imagine my shock when rapping started ooozing out...

I'm 31 and I'd defend good hip hop to the day I die. The reason I'm not as into post 1988 Prince music is because it just comparatively sucks.

Lammastide said:

what do you consider good hip hop?


covers ears at the roots,common,mos def,etc,etc ...and hopes he says the pharcyde,tribe called quest,etc.."

I'm in my 30's...I love OLD SCHOOL Hip Hop..and LIKE "some" new hip hop...

I lost faith in Prince in 96...nothing to do with Prince's Hip Hop influence...(if you wanna call it that)

I liked Hip Hop since the days of the Sugarhill Gang, Melle Mel, Through to RUN DMC, Beasties, P.E. and beyond, don't assume anyone in their 30's doesn't like rap. What Prince attempted to do post '88 isn't in my opinion, anywhere approaching Hip Hop or Rap.

Prince's sales were down and he panicked IMO, he saw rap (and to an extent House and Techno music) was gaining momentum worldwide and tried to jump on board (Even after he showed his apparent dislike for rap on 'Dead on It'), Where Prince was an innovator before, he now became a follower of trends, that is what has disappointed me above all else about him.

I disagree
[This message was edited Sun Jan 11 3:01:26 PST 2004 by FunkyStrange]

What actually bugs me a bit is that some people seem to expect him to be an innovator, old-school, commercially successfull, an underground-cult artist, simply a music god all the time.
Good thing is, I don't think he cares. And will pretty much kick everyone's ass in the end.


He is infact doing pretty good.

No, that's not it. I'm 25 and I've never really liked
the hip-hop movement, except for a few artists.

Still, Prince released enough non hip-hop influenced
songs post 1988 so that can't be the only reason.

But just listening to the records, there was some kind
of "magic" to the music back then.

Listen to "Mountains" and then listen to anything on
Emancipation or Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic.

Listen to "Anna Stesia" or "Forever In My Life", and
then listen to " o(+> ".

That pretty much sums it all up for me. The music is
still very good and I enjoy listening to all of his
albums. Yes, even New Power Soul at times lol.

But there is a certain difference. There's something
that went out the window post 1988 and it's hard to
put your finger on what it is. So I just call it an
element of "magic".

It was there again, all of a sudden with "The Truth"
and it certainly re-appeared with "TRC" be it in a
different, more earthly way.

It's also present in a lot of the instrumentals and
some of the ona piano album he released lately.