This is for those of you in the corner

I remember Kurt Cobain speaking on the audience that he wanted and the audience that he mocked. He spoke on growing up dealing with the “frat-boy” stereotype. The jocks etc who would pick on him and others and then go drink beer and feel up women so to speak all to the tune of some corporate rock Neanderthal type music so to speak…. He felt his music was not about that and an alternative to that.

Judas Priest had an audience of hell raisers and hell drinkers. Sure, near the beginning and up to the end (before Halford came out publicly) their audience clapped and cheered for the ”look” and metal of the band that their music provided. Near the end when some grew up he was semi-clowned for the leather bondage and then when it became clear, oh no. But these beer drinkers and hell raisers were cheering on a stereotypical (in some parts) gay image (leather, cop hat etc) unknowingly...not realizing they were swilling and groping and bashing while cheering on one who they would probably bash themselves if in a different situation.

The audience Curt wanted was those who did not grope women and spit on non-jocks. In essence he yearned for the non-aggressive non-alpha males. He ended up with the stereotypical frat type as a major portion of his fanbase and somewhere he stated that and felt odd about it. Singing to those who he didn’t want in his audience or that he rallied against.

Seems like the audience gets it or doesn’t…and this is what thrills and kills me throughout my life in the music of the world…its the audience…and the audience baffles me. This is some of the reasons how it baffles me. I see a lot of the audience of certain music bands, people etc and I don’t think they realize the influences of the band they are listening to. For instance, many of the zombied out audience of Led Zeppelin may not have realized their blues influenced heroes were some of the ones who made Led Zeppelin get into music originally. The audience would scoff at the blues music or r-n-b musicians that Led Zep were influenced and inspired by. The same with a band like The Rolling Stones. Their audience booed Prince off the stage (but to give credit they didn’t boo Stevie Wonder ten years prior nor Tina Turner)…and today’s rap artists who are supposedly so thugged out have many rock influences and easy listening artist that they hold dear to their heart but their audience would have none of that inside of their collections nor their hearts. Hell, I’ve read many times through the years how Scarface the rap artist is damn near a metal head (his words paraphrased) with all that he has grown up on and keeps in his collection and listens too…

An ironic part is the audience of Prince…he seems to have this section of an artist that is Big Chick-ish—u wouldn’t expect to see Big Chick being the bodyguard of Prince back in the 80’s and that was part of the bizzarro world of Prince. Throughout the last few years there have been this “Big Chick in reverse” syndrome I’ve been aware of. Metal heads or metal-head frat boy attitude but fans of Prince and his music and hell...his image. It seems like Big Chick frat boy in reverse. I say in reverse because Princes image was already out there…the makeup, the heels, the falsetto etc. It wasn’t something hidden or covert. The misogynist attitude beer swilling groping attitude of some all the while listening to Prince in his high falsetto singing Adore…Its comedy and interesting to me at the same time.

So I guess I wonder if the audience is actually listening or realizes what it is listening to when it listens to a Prince or a Rolling Stones or a Nirvana, if they realize the influence and what that artist listens to at home? Doubt it or else they may not crack on a certain kind of music…its funny, for example someone asked me “what the hell is it about Radiohead that people like?...I cant stand that crap”...and they probably don’t even realize that the woman they are lusting after or the rap or r-n-b or rock musician they are rockin steady in their car has Radiohead in their collection…each and every release and some bootlegs to boot. Which is bizzarro big chick syndrome…. You have the yea-hoos who are quick to call someone a faggot or sentimental idiot but yet the big and the bad and the bold and the brash are listening to Prince croon. It’s ironic, iconic, and laconic Imo. R.I.P. Curt… and Prince…don’t worry about those idiots who threw stuff at you in 1981. Folks just don’t understand the behind the scenes influence. I’m not saying that Jay-Z or White Strips exactly have Barry Manillow in their collection, but they may have Neil Diamond

56 views and not one post. Rd you seem to have an audience that is speechless so far or are they awe struck?. Nice thread !

Number32 said:

Nope. Just too lazy to read all of that.

LittlePill said:

i read it all. and who the hell down-rated the 5 stars i gave this thread?

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

The people who see themselves in RD's post.

Supernova said:

mmm... right on.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Indeed, indeed, indeed!! RD you nailed it.

Hmmm, great thread.

I was wondering how this fit in with Prince, then I thought all I see from Prince fans is stuff about Miles, Larry, Sly, James Brown, Joni Mitchell, Clinton, and all the other influences.

Prince fans do seem to have an appreciation of where they think Prince comes from.

But then I thought maybe was this a reaction to the Larry bashing threads?

I dunno. To listen to an artist or a CD, do you have to also aquire the artists tastes? I don't think so, although often by default it happens. I know it did with me, I picked up on Sly, Larry, Stevie, Chaka, George Clinton, James Brown, Sam Cooke, and a bucketload of other artists just because I heard Prince compared to/was infuenced by/referenced in interviews. But I don't think I am the average consumer.

I listen to 1999 and I hear Soft Cell, Gary Numan, The Human League - I listen to Purple Rain I hear Duran Duran.

Consumers don't listen, they consume.

Romance1600 said:

some, not all. and bless those of us who don't have that kinda mentality.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

We're the listners, the fans, the music lovers, not the consumers

The consumers are the ones who buy an album because they see it in the top ten, the ones who only buy records at Christmas, the ones who won't give the time of day to any music that isn't in the top ten (because it is their barometer of quality) - all quite innocent and benign, but then ignorance is bliss

Romance1600 said:

exactly.

this thread reminds me of a perfect example of what rd initially expounded upon: back when i was a freshman in high school i was a huge marilyn manson fan (strange, huh? yes, i dug "dope hat" and all that!). this was back when manson was pretty much an unknown-on-the-verge-of-being-somebody (think prince, circa prince and/or dirty mind). all the jocks n'preppie-types never paid heed to the guy and if they did know about 'im, they'd chide in with the "oh, he sux, he's gay!" and all that boolshit.

...but when antichrist superstar came out and when his remake of "sweet dreams" started gettin picked up by emptee-vee and mainstream radio, all the sudden the same preps who turned their noses up at him beforehand started to like him. mind you, they didn't dress up in makeup and torn fishnet stockings like most manson fans did. they kept their like for the guy on the hush-hush, so they wouldn't be pinned to the "goths" and "freaks" who openly liked 'im. i was lookin around like, "what the hell's goin on here?! the tommy hilfiger-types love him now?"

I'm an audience-watcher too, and I am often intrigued at the de-evolution of a band's fan-base as they rise in popularity. RD, you hit the jock on the head with this thread.

To be fair I think the time of, for example, Judas Priest, being relevant etc was a time of segregated music forms...I mean the radio began to have pop, only rock album oriented music, and only rnb in my time of growing up...that special time when you hit junior high and high school...it was later when breakout artists changed things and then broke down those segregated stations playlists etc...the segregated radio stations however are/were still no excuse. Im sure many fans of any artists are not always so deep into them that they feel the need to recognize or read about what the artist is listneing to at home or who they are a influenced by..but still it seems that the "attitudes" of some fans of whatever genre do not take into consideration that the actual artist listens to others not of the genre they are making music in, or are "relegated" to. I realize music is music..Mozart is soul just as much as JB is in certain ways and JB is classical as well if you listen good...and in this time-era we now have much more access to an artists and their influences and likes are writen about and talked about more openly then times before in my opinion. I just think it would be a trip to have a band state to their fans "ya know..we really dig that new Coldplay, White Stripes, Alicia Keys" or what have you at thier audience. Certain attitudes of the audience need that..I distinctly (and most others) remember the famed story of John Mellancamp playing Little Red Corvette to his audience on a boombox back in 1982 because he loved the song and Prince so much. I can imagine his audience probably wouldn't have given Prince the time of day back then (in general so dont kill me about being close minded), but that is what it took back then and he was one of the few who steppe d the funk up and said ..."listen..Ima fan of old school motown and rnb and rock ala exile in mainstreat rolling stones..now listen to this Prince fella for a second"...and the audience probably woudl have booed Prince if he were to have opened for Mellancamp as well. Its a trip to me. The audience sometimes has no idea

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

I think todays generation is more sophisticated now..and more accepting of many different styles of music in their collection and have better attitudes towards music..one thing strikes me as funny. I will never forget..I was teaching this extended education class (sweathogs)and I stated .."the new U2 comes out this week"...an obvious punker who was in a band playing music such as LB and Blink immediately said with such disdain "they suck!" and another fella said 'U2? huh?Im gettin the new Jay-Z" lol. Lawd..I felt like beginning some music appreciation class then and there. But Dansa I feel ya..in my day things were more strict..as well as yours but not as lenient..I mean if u wore certain shoes that meant you were this type of person, if you dressed a certain way that meant u were that type of person etc...things are so much better than back then but still there are some who need to realize that music is broad ranging and the person who's cd you just purchased and are listneing to to may be the artist who listens to the artist you would not be caught dead listening to etc.

Romance1600 said:

No..but to dismiss some othe r genere of music etc when it may be that artists that one is listening to is klind of --weird. Lets say a strictly hip hoppa was definitiely not havin any "White Stripes" in their collection etc...but said rap artists that that person is pumpin their fist to, listens to White Stripes on the tour bus, at home, and everywhere else. There is some sort of a something that does not feel right in my opinion.I guess it may be the close-mindedness that I feel is disjointed in this scenario..I mean is it the artists job to open up their audiences' eyes and minds? I dont know bnut I know what answer would make me feel right.



then I wonder if people realize what they are eating

I don't believe it's nearly as cut-and-dry as your post suggests.

Rap artists such as Scarface have rock interests, and the same likely is true for those music consumers who predominate his core audience. Why wouldn't it be? (Rock has played an elemental role in older, seminal acts like RUN-DMC and in more recent, mainstream acts like P. Diddy).

Sure, it's possible that rap albums compose the bulk of their CD collections, but that doesn't mean the listeners aren't open to or don't buy other styles of music.

As for Kurt, maybe he should've written songs that didn't have so much energy, distortion and chord progressions that lent themselves to contexts that resonated with "jocks and frat boys" (who, by the way, aren't as mindless as his comments suggest -- not all are misogynists or alcoholics).

"Smells Like Teen Spirit" was the soundtrack for many a sports highlight tape, back in the day.

ThreadBare said:

I forgot to qualify my sentiments with the fact that I may seem generalizing but that I was speaking specifically of that part of the audience who is of the frat misogynist mindset. And to those whos bulk o f thei r collection is either only hip hop, or only rock, or only...(fill in blank) etc. Sorry, it's been a helluva holiday hehe.

Romance1600 said:

I agree with this as well..sometimes I hate loving music as I do. It must be heaven to NOT think of what an artists was thinking when they wrote a certain lyirc, or have something move you as much to seek out all of their work, or care where they were and what they were going through when a certain record or song etc was written and/or recorded etc. etc. It must be easier to not care about music.

rdhull said:

I hear ya.

I know what I'm about to say might not sit well with some folks, but consider this: Prince's music and, by extension, image have consistent elements of misogyny. I mean Vanity & Apollonia, Sheila E., Sheena Easton, Carmen, Diamond, Pearl & Mayte weren't exactly dressed up in sophisticated get-ups. And, on more than one occasion, his lyrics have dealt with treating women disrespectfully (Bob George, Schoolyard come to mind).

We often credit Prince with being a progressive thinker who favors equality of all sorts -- but, a large part of his career has been built upon the objectification (exploitation) of women. We are his audience. We are the consumers. And, as a result, we've been the supporters of a consistently funky-but-misogynistic oeuvre.

the audience

i must comment on that

i remember being at prince's

1999 concert, many moons ago

i was shocked 2 see so many different

types of people at the concert

white, black puertorican, everbody

just a freakin!

straight, gay, male, and female

prince had united us all

i'm sure we all had different

musical influences and tastes

but we all agreed on prince

u go boy!

ThreadBare said:

[This message was edited Sat Dec 27 13:50:07 PST 2003 by rdhull]

Romance1600 said:

I hear a huge Country influence running throughout Purple Rain.

Shania Twain could cover Take Me With U and nobody would question it.

rdhull said:

I completely forgot about Mellencamp doing that. When i read about it I felt like I definitely respected him more for recognoizing great music from another artist who's style was so much different than his own and being ballsy enuff to play it to his own crowd on a boom box taboot... But your right I don't think they shared the same fan base at all give or take a few.