skywalker said:

Older fans remember how high Prince raised the bar back in the day, that's why.

skywalker said:

...and that sez wha'?

Goes with the territory Im afraid.

No artist is immune - it's their Achilles Heel.

*PS: Marrk is right-on the button 2. Unless u were there, u just can't know - and God, how I wish u guys were sometimes...

Prince is still the best. I'm not a syncophantic fan, I love him but he's got a ton of shortcomings. Not making quality music is not one of them. The problem we have is that first of all art is subjective. So therefore it's an endless arguement. Second of all, there is human nature which has tendencies all it's own. Prince's commercial has been dead and people can't accept that. It doesn't matter how good his music is from a commercial standpoint. It's no longer relevant in the pop marketplace. In terms of quality, he's come up with some duds, yes, but for every dud he's come up with post-88 he's done ten great songs. If people would stop this corny debate and just listen to the man they would see that he's only gotten better. We idealize the Purple Rain era but just last night I was watching his live performance from 85 and it had a ton of mistakes, poor musicianship. Princes singing was often weak and off key. His band sometimes even sounded worse. Live performance is the best index of what a musician has and if you listen to him now he is so much better. As a singer,producer writer, overall his style has only grown richer and richer. Some people thought Duke Ellington was finished after a certain age, some people thought he got better and better, some people thought he was never that good to begin with. You can't please everyone. Prince has never stopped though, while Michael has been fondling kids, and Elvis made crappy movies, and Mccartney and Lennon stopped working hard after their heyday, we have a reliable, prolific, wonderful artist who we should be proud to call ours.

skywalker said:

And I guess I should clarify also:

Shit music is shit music. Whether it comes from Prince or whoever. Now we may not all agree on what that is, but Prince shitty music is no better than anybody else's in my mind.

A better statement, IMO, would have been that at his best Prince's music is better than most anybody else's. To that I say:

Shit music is shit music. Whether it comes from Prince or whoever. Now we may not all agree on what that is, but Prince shitty music is no better than anybody else's in my mind.

Point taken, but your never gonna convince me that Prince's shit music is worse that Britney's best.

Milty said:

Absolutely

skywalker said:

Nor would I try, my friend.

I think there are many Prince fans who do have unreasonably high expectations. They get a bit too vicious in criticisms when they don't get what they expect.
To defend a position with "well, he set the bar!" is a case in point.
It is unreasonable to expect Stevie Wonder to match a "Songs In The Key of Life'' every time out. Or Michael Jackson to recapture "Thriller'''s sales or impact. But that's what some expect of Prince.
You should expect good music, and that's what I think we've received. Some of it better than others.
For the record, I liked "Jughead'' (for the rapping and the funk), "Daddy Pop'' (after seeing that Arsenio Hall show performance, I saw that song in a whole new light), "Right the Wrong'' (loved the messages there; showed his versatility ONCE AGAIN); but Shoo-be-doo was one of the weaker ones.
(was this post long enough, jeez!)
Peace

jackflash said:

So true...so, quit cryin' about that songs you don't like...I don't have enough cheese for all that "whine"

blackwell1 said:

But it's not necessarily unreasonable to expect artists who have reached a certain point talentwise to continue at that pace. Because they have tuned their creativity to a higher level, they know what is super, what is good, and what is shit in their artistry. Or at least they should. You can't tell me that after a stretch that ran from Dirty Mind to Lovesexy, of unparalleled creativity, that Prince didn't think Batman was something of a creative letdown. He knew he was taking a breather. Partyman? Oh please.

And with that in mind, he couln't have possible thought all 36 tracks of Emancipation were winners. It comes down to editing - he doesn't know how to do it. He could have reduced Emancipation down to the single cd that we all make a game of playing, and it would have been great, and we would all be falling over ourselves about the outtakes. But no, he overshoots (which ain't a bad thing), puts out something with some crap songs on it, and then those of us who know he can make better records get pasted for having unreasonable expectations. Well, fact is, Prince could make better records if he made fewer of them.

He's got the damn vault for a reason - someone should teach him how to use it.

papabeat said:

Hey, I LIKE "Partyman"!!!
And uh, maybe "Right The Wrong" a lil' bit . Ya know what? I've often felt that if someone else had released "Chaos & Disorder" they would have been lauded by the critics.
But they, much like some of the older crowd here, take into consideration P's past work. People love to make comparisons. I agree with Mozfonky.
If ya compare Prince to many of his contemporaries, you see a mega-talented,prolific artist who has grown as a writer/singer/performer/producer. I try not to have any expectations when P releases an album because you never really know what to expect when you have a guy who can run circles around most musicians and play in just about any style he wants. In some ways, I think Prince's audience is spoiled and many do not know it yet.

BlaqueKnight said:

I would tend to agree that pop music is technically simple compared to jazz or classical but would like to say it takes a special talent in itself to make such simple music potent. Prince, like all the great songwriters, is great at this. Take it from a songwriter, it's more than it looks like from the listener. Give it a try, i always tell people that writing is the toughest thing I've ever done. At any rate, people are never pleased, it's human nature, we love to make heroes and then shit on them when we are done with them. Just our nature. No one can convince me Prince hasn't gotten better in a alot of ways since his 1999-Purple Rain period. If you like the simple repetive riffs of his early stuff and his still underdeveloped vocalizing then you are a perfect pop afficionado. I think it is much ado about nothing myself. What would you guys be happy with? Him turning out an album once every 5 years like most artists? Burning out on drugs? Dying on a toilet? Give the little guy a break, he's given us plenty. Mozart,Beethoven etc..were never recognized in their lifetimes, maybe Prince will be in the same league in a hundred years. No I don't agree with everything he's done, I'm not crazy about the hip hop he's done, I think his actions outside of the music have alienated millions but I still think he is rare and wonderful, I wish I could just give him a big hug. I would never have been a musician without him, and I would have missed out on so much. Thanks, Prince.

BlaqueKnight said:

Very good point.

skywalker said:


Prince's crappy output is better than most everyone else's good stuff.



No it's not. Not even close.

I understand the sentiment you're trying to convey. It's a valid point, but you don't have to tear down other artists output to validate Prince's. Prince's bad shit is bad. Stuff like 'Jughead', 'Daddy Pop', 'Right The Wrong', 'Shoo-Bed-Ooh', etc... it's horrible. And nowhere near being better than most other artists good stuff.


I loved 'Shoo-Bed-Ooh' think about y it was written and the lyrical content...

But agree with the rest of what u say

I would tend to agree that pop music is technically simple compared to jazz or classical but would like to say it takes a special talent in itself to make such simple music potent. Prince, like all the great songwriters, is great at this. Take it from a songwriter, it's more than it looks like from the listener. Give it a try, i always tell people that writing is the toughest thing I've ever done. At any rate, people are never pleased, it's human nature, we love to make heroes and then shit on them when we are done with them. Just our nature. No one can convince me Prince hasn't gotten better in a alot of ways since his 1999-Purple Rain period. If you like the simple repetive riffs of his early stuff and his still underdeveloped vocalizing then you are a perfect pop afficionado. I think it is much ado about nothing myself. What would you guys be happy with? Him turning out an album once every 5 years like most artists? Burning out on drugs? Dying on a toilet? Give the little guy a break, he's given us plenty. Mozart,Beethoven etc..were never recognized in their lifetimes, maybe Prince will be in the same league in a hundred years. No I don't agree with everything he's done, I'm not crazy about the hip hop he's done, I think his actions outside of the music have alienated millions but I still think he is rare and wonderful, I wish I could just give him a big hug. I would never have been a musician without him, and I would have missed out on so much. Thanks, Prince.




Loving what u said till u got to the big hug bit...

Oh c'mon

Well I'm a touchy feely kind of guy, sorry. I give some people the creeps in this regard, but I gotta be me. I loves muffuckas. I got a laugh out of your response though.