... is that how someone who got it so right...


... could get it so wrong.

It's such a fucking shame.

Get over it, already.

I'll get over it when we get a new vocal Prince album that tells me that Prince has got over it

Tsk, tsk.

Did people get this bent outta shape when Cat Stevens became Yusef Islam? Prince's whole JW thing isn't nearly THAT extreme.

But really.

I think Prince is right on the nail in many respects in his lyrics. It is obvious, to me at least, that he craves to be taken seriously in his lyrics, and I can do that for an extent, when he spoke of freedom, love and sexuality, but when the preaching, dogma and judgementality came in, I think it spoils things.

TRC is like a 2nd wind, and I wonder what that 2nd wind might sound like without the dogma.

If you don't agree with me, I respect that, but at least have the courtesy to expound on your thoughts, don't just give a shitty two word answer. Tsk, tsk.

Romance1600 said:

Spare me. The "shitty two word answer" was my umpteenth way of saying that many of you Prince fans take way too much of his PERSONAL LIFE too seriously. And if you don't like the dogma he's preaching, don't listen to his music - it'll prevent the obvious internal grief many of you seem to experience because of his own personal beliefs. I really can't take all the whining about his religious persuasion seriously considering he preached about illicit sex for years and not a peep out of the most vocal hypocritcal fans. His truth isn't yours, and yours isn't his, so be it. To arrogantly act as if you have The Truth and constantly judge him for not continuing to validate your truth for the rest of your fandomed life (just because you don't agree) is NO LESS arrogant and judgemental as you proclaim him to be, but you'll never have the backbone to admit it - the only difference is that you probably don't have a public platform for your dogma. So, you're damn right, I say, GET OVER IT, ALREADY.

Or just wallow in your whiny disappointment. Your choice.

Wow, Supernova...seems to me like you're the one who needs to "get over it." Romance was just giving his opinion...you, on the other hand, seem to be getting all bent out of shape. Relax.

theblueangel said:

No, that's your misinterpretation of the written word.

I'm as relaxed as can be. In fact, I'm too relaxed!

Supernova said:

Supernova said:

-SWANGlovesyouNova

Supernova said:

Supernova said:

While i see where you're coming from, you have to say Romance does have a point..

Supernova said:

Shit!!! I love you. I mean...really I do...


[This message was edited Tue Dec 2 20:24:03 PST 2003 by psykosoul]

Supernova said:

don't hurt nobody

Romance1600 said:

I hear ya! This JW thing is (i) scary (see TRC's lyrics: "there's no room to disagree"?!!) and (ii) disappointing. I mean we're talking about Prince, a guy who found his own "religious" belief at the time of Lovesexy, thereby filling the gap between his contradicting views on sex and spirituality.

I know that the JWs are a well-established religion in the US, but here in Europe, they are held as a dangerous cult/sect more than a traditional religious congregation. I know that from a cultural point of view, the US has a more liberal take on religions, but still, it's really scary to think that Prince who was - up to that point - a free-spirit, some sort of a maverick so reluctant to fall into one category (see Controversy), is now a mere cult-follower preaching the New Translation and handing over The WatchTower to a Jewish house-hold...

And as to why Prince got it so wrong, I do believe this may very well have a lot to do with the loss of both his child and father in a very short period of time, and the consequential need to find a strong belief to hold on to...We'll see though, I'm not so sure this JW thing will have a long-lasting effect on Prince. As long as he plays Head on-stage (even without the lyrics), there's still hope...And in the end, what the fuck, he gave us wonderful records. They are alive and well and sound as fresh and innovative as day one.

Peace and B wild

DaFunkFreak said:

so sorry 2 contradict u,but...









u said that JW is a traditional religion,sorry nope



it is a cult(i'm not joking)

it was actually started in 1831 by a small group of (sorry bout the spelling)Unitarist(another cult)around the new england area(here in the US),who were unsatisfied with their own churh,since then new teachings were added slowly(in 1845,they decided 2 ignore all holidays,even b-days an anniversaries).an since about the early 1930's,is when u have the modern day JW.




how can i verify?






1.my grandfather, himself is a JW PREACHER,he preaches 2 every1 he can(including me,this is how i found out)


2.history texts an religous history books
espicially 1 that pertain solely on the basis of cult,cult history,an cult practices.they tend 2 b more detailed than just a "history of America".



i feel bad tho that prince jumped on the banwagon so quickly without checking exactly what he was getting it2.

DaFunkFreak said:

ditto. i was utterly amazed/disgusted when i read that prince and larry ahd gone barging into a strangers house uninvited and told that person her faith is wrong. CAN YOU BELIEVE HE DID THIS??!!! argghh. freaking tacky spiritual rape.

but, even if my one-time hero has surrendered his brain and his heart into the elders' care and devolved into a drone i still wish him well. if this rigid and narrowminded religious creed works for him then it works.

and who knows? maybe he's grown tired of being a creative leader and is happy to relax while allowing someone else to make decisions for him for a change. it must have been exhausting for him all these years to have the world waiting for his next new idea. now, this way he can just say 'i'm into the church now' when we ask why we ain't heard any new music for ages...

hisroyalbadnessfan8485 said:

DaFunkFreak said it was a cult.

Romance1600 said:

Thanks Romance1600, that's exactly what I said!

hisroyalbadnessfan8485 said:

I never ever said that the JW were a traditional religion, but that it seemed to me that the JW were more accepted and respected in the US than in Europe and in France in particular, where they are commonly held as a dangerous cult.

Romance1600 said:

What JW stuff? My idea of Prince I get from his lyrics. Not from rumours, rumours-of-rumours and such-like. Which stuff? You mean the lyric "door-to-door they went" on TRC? One line?

Why-oh-why people, everytime Prince (or anyone else) says anything we agree with, we think he is great/sane. But if he says anything we disagree with we think he's a bit nuts? All it means is that we disagree. He could be right, or you could be right. You could both be wrong. The key word is maybe. We do not have absolute opinions. Not atm, anyways!

andy

hisroyalbadnessfan8485 said:

You're way off, dude. Here's the definition of a cult:
A system of religious beliefs and rituals. Adherents of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices.
If JWs are a cult, then so is every other religion. I don't understand the need to be so negative about the choice one makes regarding their faith. And Romance, I don't understand your comment about dogma and judgements. What's dogmatic or judgemental about TRC?? I hear a lot of joy in that record.

A couple of serious questions:

- what exactly do JW believe that traditional Christians don't believe?

- while annoying, how is going door to door to spread your beliefs really any different than mission work done by traditional Christians. Or having programs to reach troubled youth with the message of Jesus?

Also, just remember, it could be worse, Prince could have become Amish and done away with even using electricity. We have Amish where I live, I never have figured out how they have concluded that they shouldn't use electricity. I do know they present a hazard driving their horse drawn buggies down the highway.

OdysseyMiles said:

I stand corrected. I used "cult" in a derogatory way, as a synonym for sect. I do strongly believe that the JW is a sect. Refusing blood transfusion, relying on a twisted translation of the bible made up by people with no proven linguistic expertise, drawing a line between members of their congregation and the outside world, etc. (A parliamentary task force here in France issued a thorough study of the JW sect evidencing such behaviours): all of those stands are pretty extreme and narrow-minded. Add the underlying racism of "Family Name", the chauvinism of "Muse to the Pharoah", and the intolerance of 1+1+1=3 ("Ain't no room to disagree"), you come up with a pretty scary thing. And by the way, I'm not sure that the fact that there is now a "theocratic order" as Prince claims in 1+1+1=3 is something that the world needs. Al Quaida wants a theocratic order to rule the Earth by the way.
[This message was edited Wed Dec 3 7:21:24 PST 2003 by DaFunkFreak]

Racism? Chauvinism? Intolerance?
I don't know where all that came from. If that's how you interpret those songs, then that's on you. Prince never came out and said "these are JW songs" either. On "1+1+1=3", he also says "take ur time and think it through/if this is what u wanna do". I don't see any intolerance there. Whether or not the world needs a theocratic order is not up to us. It's up to God. And you're reachin' pretty far to compare JWs to Al Quaida. JWs don't even participate in petty politics, let alone wars!!

Well, I'm not saying that Al Quaida are the JW are similar, but rather than preaching for a theocratic order is not a neutral thing to say. JWs and Al Quaida share the idea according to which a unique theocratic order should replace secular orders. A theocratic order relies on a revealed and eternal truth, set in stone once and for all, leaving no space between an ideal and reality. This is the first step towards fanatism (see Kant, Cioran). As soon as you decide that an order derived from God (hence more or less unquestionnable) should be imposed on and rule the political sphere (and this is btw why JWs don't participate in politics), democracy (which relies on checks and balances and regular changeover of political power between parties) is in danger. This is why I'm saying that preaching that "there's a theocratic order" is plain scary(regardless of Prince's joy and newfound hapiness in doing so).
[This message was edited Wed Dec 3 8:09:46 PST 2003 by DaFunkFreak]

Preaching about a theocratic order doesn't mean that JWs wanna bring down the government. They're simply waiting for God to take care of all of our problems once and for all since mankind can't do it. I wouldn't be scared, bro. You know why?? I'll quote Jim Kelly from 'Enter The Dragon'; "I'll be too busy lookin' goood".

Man...I'm sorry, but the more I learn about Jehovah's Witnesses, the more scared of them I become. KUH-REEPY.

it is only music. if you're searching for salvation in music you're looking in the wrong place, anyway. i don't particularly agree with everything JWs teach but there is certainly some good knowledge and lessons in the teachings (as with all religions). honestly, i'd rather hear him talk about something he believes in than sing about something he has no emotion for. when prince (or any artist i enjoy, for that matter) talks about something i disagree with i just toss it up to a difference in perspective and opinion. nothing more, nothing less.