Well the rants about PRINCE and when he started to "LOSE IT" and all that crap are all over the place yet again. My new favorite is "COME" thats what started the decline. People lets be real here, PRINCE had a few COMMERCIAL success filled years, I mean 1999 was a big seller, Purple Rain obviously, Around the World, Batman, Diamonds and Pearls. But if we really look at PRINCE in terms of Units sold and all that crap stuff, he really has always been pretty steady, especially for an artist that releases a CD a year sometimes multi sets. I mean his first few CDS were Gold sellers at best and even those sales were pulled up more after PURPLE RAIN explosion and all CDS started to sell, and Obviously AROUND THE WORLD sold, because it was riding the PURPLE WAVE, but lets face it, any CD he has made would have sold after PURPLE RAIN, he was untouchable and could have done anything at that point, and he has agreed with this statement and repeated it many times. But if you look at other PRINCE releases like LOVESEXY sold under a million and Sign o the times just over a million and GOLD just under a million, TRC about 250,000 to date. Prince really hasnt gone anywhere, he doesnt TOP the charts and he doesnt get the play on MTV or RADIO likehe used too so everyone assumes he's done, or LOST IT, but if U still listen to him and go see him, he has only gotten better.

yeah what he said.

See..now this post is proof that there are some that "get it". Understand the grand scheme of things. There is hope...in the purple universe. And its my journey, along with a select other few, to scour this universe...to find these ones..and wake them, join them, out of the matrix to bring jedi like order to the purple universe...to overthrow the empire of bullshitters etc

rdhull said:

Number23 said:

clearly.

First, I'm trying to understand your point. Second, who exactly are you referring to when you say there are "rants about Prince"?

I guess from my perspective, there has ALWAYS been ranting about Prince from SOMEONE. And I don't really ever expect that to change.

When most people (myself included) talk about lil' man losing "it", "it" isn't referencing the commercial side of his career, it's the creative.

Since that's all down to personal taste, an opinion that he lost "it" at Emancipation, or an opinion that he lost "it" at Lovesexy, or an opinion that he still has "it" now - they are all valid opinions.

Which is why, you are right, these type of threads will never stop, and you just created another one to throw on the pile.

i'd gladly give up hoping that he has more "hits" or mainstream appeal if he'd just put out some decent work as the payoff.



at the moment, we can revel in the glory of neither quality work or hit material.

AaronUniversal said:

AaronUniversal said:

Define "quality work" please. Do you mean music that you (personally) like? Is that the only way something by Prince can be consdered quality work? Because, in my opinion, I don't know how much more "quality" one can find than in The Rainbow Children. Was TRC mainstream or hit material? Abosutely not. But that doesn't mean TRC is not quality work.

The word "quality" is obviously very subjective, but when you couch it between the phrases "mainstream appeal" and "hit material" then your use of the word "quality" becomes even more questionable. So I'm interested in knowing exactly what you mean when you say Prince's work lacks quality.

FutureShock said:

Dont worry about Aaron..he went to the last celebration..thats how much he is full of it

he wil probably qualify it with a "but for the old stuff" etc typ of excuse..but still lol
[This message was edited Sun Nov 23 15:16:55 PST 2003 by rdhull]

AaronUniversal said:

This should all be prefaced with In Your Own Personal Opinion as I am about to preface mine.

IMO N.E.W.S. had brought be well and truly kicking back into the fold, not that I ever really left, just went from playing him all day everyday to perhaps every couple of days.

The more I play it the more I love it! Quality stuff through and through.

The myth of Prince's artistic decline

I've heard this one ever since every album after purple rain. It makes for good drama and gives people a rationalization for the decreasing sales of his albums but I think it's all much ado about nothing. If anything, since his commercial heyday he has become a better musician, singer, producer. The difference is the shelflife of the pop era for any musician. No artist can maintain steady popularity and sales for more than a few years at a time, at best. Comebacks work with many artists but really, since prince has always been more industrious than any pop musician ever, he can't really comeback. It's possible to say that his originality has waned after a certain amount of albums and that may be truer than saying he no longer does anything good. And even if he has declined, big deal, he's done plenty, more than any musician I can think of in many areas and I don't think it's that important. His influence is still huge in music, and maybe in the culture, although it may be hard to pinpoint. It's there. And for musicians like me who got into music after purple rain, he will be our central influence for as long as we do music.

67TBirdHeartAttack said:

no it shouldn't. i think we've all been on the internet, hell, even real life, to understand that when people make statements like this it is their personal opinion and not every sentence uttered has to be prefaced with that disclaimer.

rdhull said:

and do you know, in the last year, i've spun my bootleg of Xenophobia probably twice as much as all my other Prince discs combined?

FutureShock said:

oh, don't get me wrong. i think Prince is on the right track again. TRC was mostly great, but not completely there. something was "off". i'm choosing to see it as the same rung of the ladder that Lovesexy was on his way down, but this time, he's going back up it. there's a lot to like about TRC, but there's a lot that is wrong with it as well. i am glad he's found his muse again, so to speak, and that it seems like he's got the creative spark again. i'd just like to see him do something with it. it's been 2 years we've been waiting for the real follow-up. everything since have been diversions. when he can sit down and put out a real album, with real lyrics, real production, etc., to capitalize on his new-found re-interest in his musical talent, then i'll describe it as quality. as it is, he's not there yet, for the simple fact that he hasn't put anything out to indicate it.

Prince lost me after LoveSexy ...
and he lost a lot of die-hard fans at that time ...
fans who never heard of the "org" ...

Surely Prince won't give a fuck, but it does say something.
In fact, it does say nearly everything:
he lost his credibility in 1989.

Recardless of what new fans or still-believers say ... he really lost it: commercially en artistically.

Prince hasn't surprised me after 1988. Ever album released after 1988 isn't challenging ... straightforward music.

Maybe his music is still challenging you ... maybe your knowledge of classic funk and jazz is minimal??

I'm beginning to believe there are a few critical fans at the org ... most seem to follow their leader blindly

ThataintFunky said:

there are quite a few, actually. we just don't post on this forum very much. everything there is to say about Prince has been said years ago and many times over repeating oneself in the face of the fams is an exercise in futility...

I agree with you AaronUniversal and ThataintFunky 100%.

Thing is, you had to be there to know this.

Two things I'll always remember:

1) Picking up one of the Loxesexy 12"s (can't remember which) and seeing that it had been remixed by some famous remixer, instead of Prince. I thought, uh-oh...

2) Hearing Scarlet Pussy, and being really thrown by the way he used the word "yuppie"; that sort of thing just didn't happen in a prince record. Of course if you're looking back over all his work, sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't, but being there, and seeing things chronologically, it was very odd, symptomatic of a change...

...and let's not get started on how he dissed rap then decided, well, if I want to keep the black fans happy, I have to do it...then suddenly we've got lots of songs with motherfucker and nigga in their titles... *sigh*

Now, from a book I have, a review of "If I Was Your Girlfriend":

"So, you make what is your best album, your creative triumph, and it turns out to be a commercial failure. You release what may well be your finest single, and it doesn't chart at all in America. What gives? Well, let's look at the evidence.

"If I Was Your Girlfriend" is a love song that takes on a different, yet equally valid, meaning depending on the gender or sexuality of the singer. Just to make that point, the lead vocals are credited to "Camille", which we know is just Prince speeded up, or, if you prefer, his feminine side. "Camille", over the loveliest, most limpid and playful electro-funk, then proceeds to wonder how his/her woman would react to him/her if he/she were a woman/lesbian/best friend. Prince then goes on to get so excited about this idea he virtually climaxes all over the track like a randy chipmunk, but you're never quite sure if the excitement comes from the thought of being her lover or her mate or a woman plain and simple or...

What Prince had found out was that, in the new post-AIDS hip-hop climate, America could deal with a black man threatening them, or even threatening to fuck their mothers, but not with him being effeminate, not even as a fantasy, no matter how erotic or beautiful that fantasy may be. From now on, Prince was rampant butchness personified. There's a fair argument that his music never recovered. Sylvester turned in his grave"

...
[This message was edited Mon Nov 24 2:54:35 PST 2003 by unremarkable]

AaronUniversal said:

Well forgive me for my lack of netiquette - but when one says "at the moment, we can revel in the glory of neither quality work or hit material" so I assume WE is the royal WE on the net.

I was merely excusing myself from your statement about no "quality work". I was not a part of the we.

Granted there has been little or no hit material as such.

unremarkable said:

Yes ... but my first doubts came a year earlier with "Slow Love", "Housequake (Mo Quake)" and "Hot Thing (remix)" ... they're terrible!
That's when he decided to replace an extended version by a remix: what a mistake (... "slow love" is just a terrible song)

Looking back ... "Paisley Park (remix)" and "Pop Life (Us Mix)" don't look good either.

I remember writing a letter to WB complaining about the remixes on Thieves in the Temple. I said something like, "What's this Madonna Vogue crap?!" That was the beginning of the end. And then came a couple sell-out albums, albeit with some outstanding songs.

FutureShock said:

Careful, Futureshock, lest you drown in your own words. If you were eating a cheeseburger, and after a couple of bites, decided you didn't like it, would you call it a quality cheeseburger? Quality is in the ear of the beholder, son. The bottom line in any of these kinds of discussions, and what makes them pointless is this: The only taste that matters is your own. "Your" meaning whoever is listening. In the end, I don't give a damn what anyone else likes, and neither does she, and neither does he, etc. If I call something quality, it means I dig it. Why should someone buy something just because someone else digs it? You answered your own question. Prince's work lacks quality if, as you said, it is "music that you personally (don't) like".

meh.