How many of us when we heard Around the World in a Day thought immediately "YES This is gonna be a classic" or when we heard Parade said "This is a masterpiece"?

Or are we now, with the benefit of hindsight, now in a better position to understand what Prince was doing then.

When Lovesexy came out did we say "Yes this will save lives" or "A spiritual tour de force"??

Or were we spending those years looking for the next "Let's Go Crazy" and the next "When Doves Cry"?

I know when "Kiss" was released, I anxiously looked forward to Parade's release. The embarrassment of the film Under the Cherry Moon and the radically different tone of Parade compared to the minimalist dance funk "Kiss" left me wanting.

The same can be said of many of his releases that needed time to season and marinate.

As a result of this, I personally am apprehensive of any first impressions I have of P's music. His is something that needs to sink in. Especially now that he's been conversing more with jazz styles, the music is getting more complex and layered.

Well, being young and not being exposed to A LOT of music, each new Prince album really did blow me away. Around the World and Parade were very different than anything else on Top 40 radio. I loved the new flavors. And Lovesexy made me cry at first listen... it was so rich and beautiful! I think it's pretty cool to be able to look back at those albums and see that they still stand out as gems among anything done in the last 20 years. I do have to admit though, by the end of the Parade era, I was looking for some kind of return to 1999 or Purple Rain. And he gave it to us. Did he ever! Sign was another one of those mind-blowing albums.

I understand what you mean about being apprehensive during first listens of an album. Go back in the archives on AMP and see ALL the people praising Rave, and now less than half of Prince fans will say it's a good album. I think we have a tendency to get overly-excited about new music from Prince, leaving us lacking in true musical discernment which comes later when we can view things more objectively.

I don't think so at all.

Whilst it's all very nice to be a fan, looking objectively - all artists have a period where they produce their best work.

I think that time for Prince is over, and whilst that doesn't make his current output any less valid, I personally think his best work was 1979-1988 - That's a helluva long run, most artists only get one or two albums of their best work.

Now, I'm not nostalgic, I'm not wanting him to sound like he did in the 80s, and I'm not trying to be iconoclastic towards him or his music now - it's just the natural cycle of an artists life.

Prince is lucky, he's still very creative, and still releases a lot of music (although it does appear that his output has slowed down dramatically since the mid-90s).

There are always one or two songs worth listening to for me even on his most dire or stagnant releases.

But I don't think any amount of marinating is gonna elevate New Power Soul or Rave to the leagues of Parade or 1999.

To vibe one song or one album and not another is personal and can only be recognized each time the note pulses the ear. No, I never thought anything different before or after hearing an album. They all have something to offer and are so called good to me just by the act of owning and listening. I feel, they had been released good or bad and that anything else was up to the person listening to the track or tracks at any time. Some I like more than others and some I feel are unfocused a little, like Lovesexy and Graffiti Bridge. Not that they were not great, they were. I feel the same about all the music as I did in the past. I hold The Rainbow Children on the same acclaim as the 1999 album or Purple Rain. or any of the albums released. I feel NEWS is something different. Hey it's all good. I'm just happy to listen.

Playing NEWS and ONA-piano all the time!!

I couldn't get enough of Parade. Even almost 20 years later, I still love it. Not all of it, but most.

NuPwrSoul said:

That's an interesting take. I've always been of the opinion that to fully evaluate anyone's music you have to take time with it. I've often found that the best albums are those that appreciate with time. There are albums that I've listened to over months and gotten something new out of it with each listen.

In respect to the Prince albums you list above, I can't say even repeated listening has given me the opinion that 'ATWIAD' is a 'masterpiece'. IMO, there were some masterstrokes of genius like 'Condition Of The Heart' which is one of his most underrated ballads. And 'Tambourine' and arguably even the title track. The rest of it is fairly mediocre by his standards. Especially when you compare it to the rest of his 80's output.

'Lovesexy', I'm torn on. There was some great stuff on it: 'AnnaStesia', 'When 2 R In Love', 'Alphabet St.' and 'Eye No' come to mind. But the other half of the album just does nothing for me. Mind you, I think the message enhanced the music for much of his fanbase, but for me if the music doesn't move me then nothing that's said will either.

'Parade' on the other hand is and always will be his most underappreciated album. Very few folks will talk about it in the same breath as 'Dirty Mind', '1999', 'Purple Rain', and 'Sign O' The Times', but it truly deserves to be. Some of that 'minimalist' funk you speak of is captured on 'New Position' and 'I Wonder U'. But really sets 'Parade' apart is the production. The sound of the album is unlike anything he'd ever done before or since.
[This message was edited Sat Nov 15 7:23:40 PST 2003 by violator]

ATWIAD, Parade and Lovesexy all had me at hello. At the time all I heard was Prince and at that point hadn't been disappointed in his releases. I still remember hearing those albums and not giving a shit what other people thought of them but knew I was listening to the soundtrack of my youth. I still remember putting the needle down on Parade for the first time and hearing these new colors floating out of my speakers.

NuPwrSoul said:

This is an excellent point.I think its been proven time and again on these boards that many of Princes songs and albums are "growers".I know that often a particular song on first listen might not do it for me,only to later become a favorite.Also with Prince,especially around here,one fans trash is anothers treasure.Pick out any "Make your own Emacipation CD" thread and see the different lists people come up with.Many here seem to rush to judgement without letting which ever project sink in.

NuPwrSoul said:

I agree wholeheartedly. In the 80's I could not stand his releases upon initial release. Ive only grown appreciation for many of the releases in the 90's, last decade. For instance, Parade. Damn near hated it when it came out. I hated PR untill repeated listenings. The only record I liked ( full record) upon first listening is SOTT...which causes me stress betwen it and 1999. I hated 1999 album when I first heard it..thought it was to weird etc. But all of his releases in the 90's I gewnerally disliked until they had time to marinate. Sure there were always enjoyable single songs but now I appreciate the releases more as a whole after all of these years. Lovesexy especially.

To me most of the albums ar "Growers"...still today N.E.W.S. is growing on me...

One thing that newer grew, it was big from the beginning, it was that day I saw the Buffalo Purple Rain concert on German TV...that was the day that tuned me in...I heard 1999 and little red corvette before, even Dirty Mind, but they did not what that show did to me...

Sign 'o' Times was that single that was there right from the start...top of the pops, top of my Prince songs...most of the time.

The Truth is an album which I see out of contest because it is not an official album...in fact sometimes I like it the most, it sounds so fresh...

Hopefully I spread enough spririt...

Peace and NO WAR!

Juize, Hamburg Germany

rdhull said:

I feel EXACTLY the same way although I just got Lovesexy and Parade a couple months ago and I'm still not as keen on them as some of the other stuff. 1999, same deal, although having said that (and I KNOW I'm gonna get ripped up 4 saying this) I prefer his 90's stuff more. But ATWIAD is 1 of my favs of ALL his albums!

If you are into the music of Prince, you must realize that when he is in the "present", the music is always on another level and dimension. Hearing "1999" and seeing how "prophetic" some of the brotha's lyrics are will blow your mind. That is why you must let it "marinate and saturate" your mind to really appreciate homeboy's vibe...whether jazz, funk, or rock and roll; I have just learned to appreciate the brotha's gift and go with the flow!

Good topic. I've gotten conditioned to Prince's music. I go into each album with out any expectations. Rarely there is an album I don't atleast see where he's going and appreciate the journey.

I didn't fully appreciate Around the World in a Day when it first came out. I was only like 15 or something. But it grew on me and it is a masterful piece of art. Parade took some getting used to, but once again, I feel it was a masterstroke. Sign O' the Times, I loved it instantly. The same with Love Sexy.

Now, the Rainbow Children, it took me about 3 listens and it was while I was working I had it playing in the background that it sunk in and hit something very deep in me. I rank it up there with Purple Rain, Sign O' the Times and Lovesexy as his best albums.

I've always stated, listen to a Prince song (or album) at least 3 times before you form an opinion.

I like the challenge of new music.

I don't know...I feel more along the lines of what Romance1600 & Violator said...

I liked Parade instantly, and most of ATWIAD too. Back then i really WASN'T looking for the next 'lets go crazy' at all...in fact (and I KNOW I'M gonn get burned for this...but its the truth)...the fact is I thought the Purple Rain album was just not as good as the rest of his 80s stuff...oh sure it had some aboslute gems on it, but as a whole i actually prefered many of the other 80's records..

but i digress...

No for me i didn't have expectations with prince records...i knew better. Haveing been a fan for a while (having recieved an advance Promo copy of the second record "Prince") I knew that chances are this dude was gonna come out with something different each time. I just let the new releases 'hit me' however they were gonna 'hit me'. I like to think that I'm still that way with his (or anyones) music.

With that said, most of the 90's stuff just didn't do it for me at all. Just didn't. Again, i definitely wasn't looking for him to re-do his work in the 80's AT ALL...i just wanted a complete solid record...and, for me, for my tastes... there weren't very many of those solid records coming out of his camp then. It's funny ... the 90's Prince records i hear many people say are among his WORST of that decade are actually the only two that i consider listenable from that decade..."Come" and "Chaos & Disorder". They just seem more 'honest' to me than most of the other overproduced, overconceptualized 90's Prince records. I dug the "Come" record instantly...I bought "Chaos" when it came out but honestly NEVER even gave it a complete listen until YEARS later...but when i did listen I was like...'heyyy...I thought folks said this album was pretty much worthless? This is kinda raw and natural sounding...this is good stuff.' But other than those two records his 90s albums were just...ehhh. Sure like i said, a few of the other records had some individual songs on them that I consider great...i mean just to name a few..."Joy In Repetition"..."And God Created Woman" i still love. But complete albums? Like I said...ehhh...

For me what I'm looking for mostly is...'honesty of expression' in the music and the right BALANCE, creativity and attention to 'the production' details (attention to production details DOES NOT mean everything must sound clean and perfect). Honesty & Production...those two things can really make or break a song & and an entire album. On way too many 90s prince records 'the production' just ruined some of the records for me...underneath the production there actually could have been a good tune, but it was drowned or watered down in the mix. (which IMO actually started with the Lovesexy record. That record could have been a monster in my opinion, some cool tunes are in there...but uneven production kept it from being ALL it could be.) Thankfully for me, recently I think it seems he's moved away from that heavy handed 'too clean' generic sounding production. The 'Honesty in expression' element is a little harder to describe...it's an instinctual thing for me. It's kinda like...do i get the feeling that the artist is genuinely attempting to sincerely express something that he or she has a deep feeling about, regardless how it might be taken or interpreted by folks? I don't have to agree with what they are expressing at all, but i have to feel that they REALLY FEEL it. So are they doing that OR are they instead trying to disguise or change what they really feel by watering it down here or there to make it more palettable, a little more acceptable? Are they trying to be too current or too clever for their own good? Are they just trying to make a hit record? Heheh...It's really not as 'check listy' as it sounds here...its really more of a gut feeling reaction i get from the lyrics and delivery...but so far it's never let me down...it helps me find those records that continue to resonate and move me over time... and avoid those records that just have no true lasting 'affect' at all.

For the record I've enjoyed a few of the new Prince stuff...I really dig Rainbow Children for example. I don't have to agree with some of the views expressed to appreciate the album. That is just a nicely done record any way you look at it. Excellent production.

I do own 'News' but haven't really given it a listen yet...

So, back to your question ... am i giving his newer stuff a fair chance? I think I'm giving it the same chance as the old stuff that i loved. But as someone said...each one of us will have our own idea of what a 'good' record is...and like it or not, artists do have peak periods of creativity that they can never again match. I do think that, as someone said, based on everything we've heard so far, that 80s era was his peak period. There was a streak in there where every single record he put out was just RIGHT ON. You could pretty much 'guarantee' that you were gonna get a creative interesting piece of work. Should he try to re-live that era or style and should we expect him to? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

I like to think I'll still give any of his new records at least a fair chance...but due to the 90s, I just think that that 'guarantee' has expired is all.

Romance1600 said:

I'm having psychological problems validating the statements of a blow-up doll. But I totally agree with you here.

no marinating needed here. I pretty much feel the same about Prince's albums and material now as the first time I listened to them. I believe he reached his peak and there's no going back. However, Prince (and people in general) change when they get older, mentally and physically. As do the fans. Maybe the younger fans want more high-energy stuff? Maybe the fans have good memories associated with some of his older worked unmatched by current memories with his newer material? Maybe that makes certain albums or periods of work extra special to them? In my case, that doesn't play a part. I think his older stuff was clearly better and more creative.

That said, Prince no longer should be expected to "out-top" his greatest, or satisfy the desires of the fanbase or re-live his glory days. His work is there for all to listen to. I am glad he is doing what he wants (I hope) and he still makes INTERESTING music quite different to the rest of them.

And then there are some fans that act as if everything Prince released during the vaunted '80s was another masterpiece. That's just not being honest with oneself for the sake of saying, His best material was during the '80s. Sure, the vast majority of people who followed his career agree that he was more consistent back then, but to elevate every note he created in that decade to watershed status is just being intellectually dishonest. Anybody that releases as much music as Prince is going to have some dross in there somewhere.

As far as hindsight goes: the only album I can remember not being too enthusiastic about (it wasn't that I disliked it, I just didn't get a grasp on what I was hearing off the bat) was Purple Rain. I didn't even know what to make of "Doves" when I heard it long before the album was released. Many songs are like that for me with Prince, but not many albums. At his best he just comes from left field, and you don't expect what you're getting because when the cat is ON his imprint is heavily stamped on what you're listening to, even if you can hear the echoes of his influences in the mix. And sometimes freshness or innovation is just foreign to our ears. There's no familiarity... yet.

"If I Was Your Girlfriend" was another song that hit me immediately as being uniquely different - yet I loved it from the get-go. But I'm still one of those people who doesn't consider SOTT his greatest album.