More from DEC2003 GUITAR ONE



SCREEN TEST: DVDs IN REVIEW pg.33 (by Bob Guilla)

Prince
Live at the Aladdin Las Vegas
(NPG/HIP-O)
(out of 5)

Prince has always been an underrated guitarist, highly-regarded by those who've seen him play, but unacknowledged by the commercial majority. Stylistically, Prince is foremost of the Nile Rogers/Eddie Hazel school of funk. But he's much more versatile than that, an attribute evident on this disc, especially when he lays into Led Zeppelin's "Whole Lotta Love", complete with wiggy solo; the serious jazz licks of the unreleased "Strollin'"; and the talkin' blues of "The Ride".



(there's more on the actual DVD being poorly sync-ed on the audio, which probably explains the relatively low, still good though, rating, but that's not to the point of this thread - PFJ)

JavierAlcalde said:

I wonder if this is because he is more focused and less hyped on being a multi-instrumentalist. Nowadays, his main axe seems to be piano and guitar, letting trusted a much-vaunted band render his musical vision.

Prince's lead is great, but I reckon his forte is rhythm. His versatility on that side of things was demonstrated way back when.

DaFunkFreak said:

How so? Please direct my CD Player in the right direction and i'll check it out tonight. I noticed some small changes like around 87 and 97,, but nothing big. I was actually thinking more or less about his Live playing which his style I think has very much stayed the same.

Savannah said:

A good illustration of this shift is the difference between live renditions of the Ride (circa 1995-1997) and his solos of the Lovesexy Tour (and especially the one at the end of Anna Stesia). I think he found new ways of soloing around the Gold Experience/Undertaker era. My guess is that this change may be due to the NPG Trio. As it was the first time he ever played live with only a bass and drums (at least I think so), he may have felt the need back then to fill in the musical space with more sounds, effects and riffs that he used/had to...Just a guess...
[This message was edited Fri Nov 14 8:46:24 PST 2003 by DaFunkFreak]

DaFunkFreak said:

Probably. But nowadays, he plays better than that period. I think there's another evolution.

JavierAlcalde said:

You are perfectly right. The way he played during his latest Paris Aftershow at Le Bataclan was just beyond words.

BlaqueKnight said:

Many valid points in your very interesting and well-thought post. I never ever considered Prince as the best guitarist in the whole world (that'd be just outrageously wrong and absurd, I do agree). As a (very humble) guitar player and music lover, I do also agree that Wes, Jordan, Grant Green and many other guitar players are million miles ahead of him.

However, when you talk about "playability", I'm not sure I'm with you on that. Of course, it is a factor, as much as technicality is (see one of my previous replies above in which I addressed this issue using Bach and Rachmaninov as examples). But I'm not sure that a Scofield for instance could sound like Prince and could duplicate Prince's soul and feeling on guitar. And I think that aspect of Prince's play is underrated.

Anyways, all in all, I do agree with most of your thoughts on this, and appreciate the quality of your post!
[This message was edited Fri Nov 14 11:54:55 PST 2003 by DaFunkFreak]

DaFunkFreak said:

Scoffield. Interesting choice. I like some of John's work (like the stuff he did with Soulive) and some seems kinda boring to me, but someone like John probably couldn't play with the same soulfulness as Prince because his roots ain't from where Prince's is, however someone like Jesse Johnson could play EXACTLY like Prince if he wanted to because the overall musical roots are the same. After "Bare My Naked Soul", I can safely say Jesse is a fantastic player. Because Jesse's popularity derived from Prince's success, its safe to say that he will never get anywhere near the credit he deserves for his playing. I think some of the more underrated guitarists are the ones who play behind bigger artists. These are the guys that only get to shine for a couple of minutes, and unless they put out a guitar album, they don't get props and NEVER come up in "who's best" debates because people don't know the extent of their abilities unless they KNOW them. Just like John can't play like Prince, Prince can't play like Wes or Vernon Reid or Stanley Jordan...and we ain't EVEN gonna get into the Vai/Malmsteen/Satch vs. Prince thing UH-GAIN. Those guys have the ABILITY to play like Prince, but it would be insulting and a definite blow to their reps if they did. Guitarists usually pick their field and run with it because they want to be on top in that field. It doesn't mean they CAN'T play other styles, its just that they want to rule their favorite style. Since Prince's music is usually a blend of styles, it makes sense that he can create more opportunities that focus on his versatility, thereby making him APPEAR to be more well-rounded than other guitarists. Live, I find his solos much less impressive. To this day, I think Levi plays jazz better. Prince's strongest attribute to his playing in my opinion is that he knows his songs very well and is able to write parts that fit what he is trying to convey. I could NOT hear him dropping a solo like "For The Love Of God" by Steve Vai, though. That just doesn't seem to be within Prince's abilities.

BlaqueKnight said:

Fair enough. Your Jesse Johnson example is a well chosen one. As for Levy, I do agree with you (his sexy MF solo is quite nice IMO) - by the way, what he is up to? (I know he will show up at the Family Jamm next month but other than that...) And the fact of the matter is, I don't think Prince really cares to be held as a great/exceptional/gifted(feel free to add and/remove any of these adjectives!) guitar player. Otherwise he would have recorded guitar-oriented projects, which has never really been the case. Prince's greatest musical quality is his multi-instrumentist and songrwriting abilities, and that what his records always tend (not always successfully though) to demonstrate. You wrote that Prince is a "passionnate"guitar player and come to think of it, I think that sums up this thread quite well. I listened to the Small Club gig this afternoon, and Prince's solo in the opening Instrumental Jam just screams passion and soulfulness.
[This message was edited Fri Nov 14 14:01:57 PST 2003 by DaFunkFreak]

BlaqueKnight said:

PFunkjazz said:

I always found his playing on that one to be sort of antiseptic.

Dennis Chambers is worth the price, though.

Supernova said:

Although I disagree wholeheartedly,I'll just let your opinion lay in the road. Sco's playing was top-notch and it featured some of his best writing with a funk unit. The nuttiness was more in the analogy used.

PFunkjazz said:

But I think there's a difference between saying it's not top notch, and saying it's antiseptic. I just find the playing on that album cold, it doesn't necessarily mean his abilities are lacking.

That's why I said we disagree, go it?

"Play that muthfunking bass...FACE DOWN"

PFunkjazz said:

Perhaps I stand corrected. I'll have to check this one out. Thanks for schooling me on this one, PFunk.

i ve never seen anyone play like him ``hes on his own

DaFunkFreak said:

Agreed it is ever expanding. I just checked out the Ride cut from the Vegas DVD and man i'm hearing/seeing the same ole style. Nothing really evolving into something different that I could hear. Just alot more thrown in together cleverly. I'll check out Anna Stesia a bit later.

NWF said:

The second comment is true for most magazines but Guitar Techniques (a UK magazine but I think its available abroad) has a "How to Funk Like..." feature every month. When I first bought it a few months ago it happened to have an excellent feature on Prince and some examples of Prince-style funk playing.

To add to the debate I think Prince is a superb player, and I'm someone who listens almost exclusively to rock and advanced players like Vai and Satriani. Listen to Gett Off and try to imagine another guitarist playing the end solo with such great tone, groovy feel and great note selection. If you want to hear him play fast listen to Style from Emancipation (Disc 3 i think). Even though the guitar is buried in the mix it is a great showcase for P. Prince is a great musician and he uses instruments to make his music sound good and express himself, just like all musicians should.

And I don't want to read anybody even hinting that Steve Vai and Joe Satriani's music is either boring or is just an exercise in guitar wanking etc. Their music might not be for everyone but it is fantastically imaginative, interesting and is full of feel and melody. If you want to listen to soundscapes etc. check out Vai, famed for his "Sonic Tapestries" (The Riddle from Passion and Warfare is a good example.)

PFunkjazz said:

---

You know what the previous poster was trying to say. All of the people you listed are great black musicians who do not get any recognition from the public today. You do not hear their music or the radio or see their images in popular cultrue. The media and the music industry has done a great job not promoting black musicians.

The average person on the street thinks that black people only contribute singing and rapping to popular music.

laurarichardson said:

My take on that is different. It's more like black people don't take the time to acknowledge and appreciate the greats of their own musical heritage. Who was it that said "It's time for jazz to die?"

Careful what you ask for, punk.

PFunkjazz said:

JAZZ PLAYERS were the ones who said it was time for jazz to die. I'M a jazz player myself and I love jazz, but today's jazz musicians are so concerned with arguing over "what is real jazz?" rather than invention. No one listens to jazz partially because most people just "don't get it" but also because it hasn't moved anywhere since the early 80's. Also, when universities embrace something, especially something that was (and should be) as personal as jazz is, it's as good as dead.

Back to the topic at hand, I think for someone who plays as many other instruments as Prince does, and writes as often as he does, he's a damn fine musician. The traditional stereotype of a songwriter is a guy who can write good tunes but can't play his way out of a paper bag (which is usually the case) but Prince defies this. His solos aren't the most technical but they don't need to be. A tapping solo on most of his tunes would be absurd. He just plays tasty, like Miles did. He's not the best guitarist in the world, but then again there's no such thing as the "best guitarist in the world" because everyone has their own definition of what that is.

guitarslinger44 said:

I agree SOMEWHAT with your statement. I also find the in-fighting in jazz distastetful. Almost as bad as the "fam"-fighting here!

The "punk" being quoted is Prince himself (surely you knew that!) from back on 1999 in early 80s. I doubt he was very ahead of anything in jazz at that time, but acting like a conceited little punk, imo. True, jazz players have said it too, but that goes back as far as 60s avant-garde when black jazz revolutionaries like Archie Shepp, Cecil Taylor and Ornette Coleman truly changed jazz. (Miles had strong objections with the term because he felt it was synonymous with "nigger").

Prince's irony is, his stabs at jazz are weak fusion, that was being played out at that time. Guess he had to wait to develop his chops.

prince is the best.
better than whoever ur talking about even i havent heard from them...they suck and prince rooolez!

thank u!