It is obvious Prince went out of his way to make sure Wendy Melvoin and Lisa Coleman were not included in any of the songs on Crystal Ball.

Is this why we get such a strange collection of songs, becuz he is mad at them girls?

They were the only ones of The Revolution not thanked in the liner notes. Wendy gets a mention, but only becuz the bugger could not remember who sang background vocals...



For instance, Dream Factory with W&L in it is a better version.

Is Prince really that childish in his dislikes? I guess he is.
[This message was edited Tue Nov 11 3:33:12 PST 2003 by gooeythehamster]

Probably because he's a homophobe.

Cloudbuster said:

He is?

gooeythehamster said:

I think it ties in with his recent conversion to the JW religion. Have you not read 'Possessed'?

You paranoid!

The Roadhouse Garden project was posterior and rejected by them girls(if I remember rightly)

shut up already!!

I refuse to think Prince is a homophobe

garganta said:

Well, I think he is.

Cloudbuster said:

no!

garganta said:

indeed

but I still don´t believe it

Thread Jackin
Acros The Univeeerse!

Anyways.
Back to topic, please?

Welles, nietes, welles, nietes.

Me ---> <--- Gooey

Cloudbuster said:

LoL

You just love putting things in my mouth, don't you?

gooeythehamster said:

PANDURITO said:

It wasn't rejected by them.

If I remember correctly, he never even contacted them about it - just posted some gobble-de-gook on L4OA and expected them to be reading it.

but... but... you can hear their instruments still ? i never realized this. i don't know the versions with them singing on it. damn. maybe they didn't give permission ? in SPLASH you can still hear them, that was released on the NPGMC after CRYSTAL BALL. ok that is it. i am in a winter depression. i love Wendy and Lisa.

It's from my understanding "Crystal Ball" was a reissue of the bootlegs that were circulating.

But

What was in it for the hardcore fan if they already had the songs via bootleg?

...and Prince wanted to SELL the set, so he changed things slightly on each track to make them sound "new" or "different" I guess.

He expained this on Larry King back in 1999. Larry asked him What an artist could do to combat bootlegging, and Prince's answer was to get those mixes, clean them up and put them back out there as he intended them to be.

Unfortunatly, Wendy & Lisa were out of the mix

dawntreader said:

It doesn't have anything to do with permission.

Prince just used one of the versions of Crystal Ball, there are about 3 or 4 aren't there? (Question to the collectors there).

There's the version with the "purple underground" part with them on, but that version (please correct me if I'm wrong) wasn't the version that was going to be on Crystal Ball (1987) - so Prince just chose the version from that (un)release I guess.

I always thought it had more to do with not wanting to have to negotiate royalty payments for songs with significant involvement of others.

Romance1600 said:

I was talking about the CD SET Crystal Ball, not the song. Only Susannah featured on the song Crystal Ball, not Wendy or Lisa.

I was talking about the song Dream Factory. I do not know how many versions exist of that song, but the first version definately included them.

.

edit
[This message was edited Tue Nov 11 4:25:12 PST 2003 by gooeythehamster]

gooeythehamster said:

gooeythehamster said:

True but I think the Crystal Ball album proper (the first configuration) is more of a Prince-Wendy-Lisa record in the mind of everyone involved (including him); and the reason why their presence in the released version of CB is minimal is the same reason why Sign of the Times was reworked from CB/Dream Factory to reflect as little involvement as possible.

It could be bad feelings or it could be royalty issues or it could be that he still views most of those songs as collaborations rather than solo works.

Cloudbuster said:

hold your horses a little. For Emancipation he sent them In This Bed I scream for them to work on it. They turned the offer down. Same thing for Roadhouse Garden. I believe the Wendy and Lisa parts have been deletedcbecause they "belonged" to and featured the girls so he didn't wanted to steal their work and deleted these parts (remember the samples not credited thing is not of prince's taste.)

On the other hand the solo/collaboration effort of your last post could be an explanation also... As the CD set was release as a prince (o+>) release those part got dropped. But right there are several versions of the songus. But the version here is not the one intended for the Crystal ball original album which was more of a conceptual collaborative effort.
[This message was edited Tue Nov 11 5:26:45 PST 2003 by klaatu]

Although I'm not saying that Prince is unequivocally a homophobe, there are certainly lyrical passages in some of his recent work that cause one to wonder, such as The War's "Every seed, fruit 2 bear." Also, one wonders where gays and lesbians would fit into the Theocractic Order?

To get back on topic (sorry Gooey), I remember being really disappointed that Wendy and Lisa had been hacked outta the released outtakes on Crystal Ball.

"Lisa, I'm gonna hand you the brush, and yer gonna PAINT the side o' the TRAIN..."

I think it had to do with royalties and stubborn pride, personally.

theblueangel said:[quote]Although I'm not saying that Prince is unequivocally a homophobe, there are certainly lyrical passages in some of his recent work that cause one to wonder, such as The War's "Every seed, fruit 2 bear." Also, one wonders where gays and lesbians would fit into the Theocractic Order?

I think you over analize this. Every seed fruit to bear has to be taken on a broader sense like many things concerning religion (and other tpics). Potentially every seed could bear a fruit... I think this homosexuality issue is just being "shut down" or not talked about by Prince due to the possible (and i stress on possible) clash with the JW theories. now I am still unconvinced of Prince being a real JW. Besides there is texts from all the wholy books on the reflection room. The guy is still an open minded type of fellow.

Besides he has never expicitely said he was in favor or against homosexuality. People related prince on this issue but the guy never made it an issue.
[This message was edited Tue Nov 11 5:38:26 PST 2003 by klaatu]

klaatu said:

I hear what you're saying, but for me it's hard to make it much broader in the context of that song, considering this lyric comes right before he says something like "HIV, they say they have a cure, I'm not sure." (Haven't listened to that song in ages and seeing as how I'm gonna buy it with TCI, I figure why dig it up now?)

He certainly has never come out explicitly against homosexuals, no doubt. That would be disastrous for him, I think.

Besides pure speculation, is there anything substantial to indicate that Prince is homophobic?

Isn't it a tad trite to consider interpretation of lyrics "pure speculation"? You sound like one of the PeePees.