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Reply #60 posted 10/31/03 7:26am

DaFunkFreak

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soulpower said:

DaFunkFreak said:


Never heard of Mandrill, but I'm eager to discover them! Could you please tell us more??? Thanks!



www.mandrillis.com

They have released ten albums, four of them have been re-released on CD, and there is a 2-CD-anthology on Polydor. The other stuff is available on vinyl, you just need to be patient and look for them. Good luck, you wont regret it. They are gonna blow your mind.


Many thanks Soulpower!! thumbs up!
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Reply #61 posted 10/31/03 7:43am

papabeat

Robert Pollard of Guided By Voices beats Prince hands down in the prolific department. He's written thousands of songs. In 2002 alone he released, through his various collaborations, I believe, nine albums, and so far this year has had four albums release. However, he's releasing another album today (31st), and next week is putting out a 5 cd box set, his third box set to date. His recording style is unorthodox, but GBV fans uniformly think his output is among the great catalogs in modern music.
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Reply #62 posted 10/31/03 7:53am

stymie

Supernova said:

A lot of wrongheaded bellyaching going on in this thread. disbelief

And anybody who speaks musically ill of Mandrill must be on crack - which of course has nothing to do with how prolific they are, or aren't for that matter. It's just an absolute crime how Mandrill isn't really known in the mainstream. These guys had PFunk open up FOR THEM, fer Christ's sakes.

Think of Santana in their prime.

Think of Earth Wind & Fire in their prime.

Think of Parliament/Funkadelic in their prime.

Think of World Music long BEFORE it was called such a thing.

Think of walking basslines, and Latin piano.

Think of an Afrocentric Funk Bomb.

Then think of whatever else you never think of outside of your pop music world view.

There you have Mandrill.
I continue to be amazed by you, Supernova. worship
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Reply #63 posted 10/31/03 8:06am

papabeat

soulpower said:

softandwet said:


lol. well actually i aint heard these records! haha. but theyre still records, and if prince played all instruments and developed the melody, i think this is more time consuming or at least prolific, than hendrix or a jazz musician improvising for an hour



I think you have misudnerstood the concept of Jazz. Its extremely difficult to get together with five master musicians and improvise for over and hour. Its more difficult than would Prince did for Vanity, etc.. -- lay down a lame drum beat and add some cheesy, unskilled synths over them.

I understand we're off topic, but you're not really being fair. Vanity 6 isn't trying to be acoustic jazz. It was R&B of the time it was recorded. The drum programs were fresh then. Sure the keys were easy, but they fit the funk. And while Prince has tried jazz with modest results, I haven't seen Chick Corea or any of his peers write a Top 40 song on the order of Raspberry Beret.
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Reply #64 posted 10/31/03 8:20am

soulpower

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papabeat said:


I understand we're off topic, but you're not really being fair. Vanity 6 isn't trying to be acoustic jazz. It was R&B of the time it was recorded. The drum programs were fresh then. Sure the keys were easy, but they fit the funk. And while Prince has tried jazz with modest results, I haven't seen Chick Corea or any of his peers write a Top 40 song on the order of Raspberry Beret.



I didnt say that Vanity was supposed to be jazz .. lol... they were R&B. I dont know any musician who considered these side projects seriously. They were rubbish and consisted of chicks Prince chose for their skills in bed rather than singing.

People like Chick Corea would never write a Top 40 song because they were never interested. They easily could. Look at Herbie Hancock who was all the way up in the charts in the early 80s, and look at Roy Hargrove today, who is working with Erykah Badu. Roy Ayers has been in the top charts as well, and that back in the 70s already.

Prince however WANTED to be in the charts. Until TRC, all of his records included material which was written to climb up the charts.
"Peace and Benz -- The future, made in Germany" peace
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Reply #65 posted 10/31/03 8:24am

PFunkjazz

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papabeat said:

soulpower said:

softandwet said:


lol. well actually i aint heard these records! haha. but theyre still records, and if prince played all instruments and developed the melody, i think this is more time consuming or at least prolific, than hendrix or a jazz musician improvising for an hour



I think you have misudnerstood the concept of Jazz. Its extremely difficult to get together with five master musicians and improvise for over and hour. Its more difficult than would Prince did for Vanity, etc.. -- lay down a lame drum beat and add some cheesy, unskilled synths over them.

I understand we're off topic, but you're not really being fair. Vanity 6 isn't trying to be acoustic jazz. It was R&B of the time it was recorded. The drum programs were fresh then. Sure the keys were easy, but they fit the funk. And while Prince has tried jazz with modest results, I haven't seen Chick Corea or any of his peers write a Top 40 song on the order of Raspberry Beret.


Much to the contrary.

Corea & RETURN TO FOREVER have written a glorious piece of cheese called MUSICMAGIC

cheese



that covers all the suck-ass parts of ATWIAD.

Then again, they also recorded ROMANTIC WARRRIOR

horns



which is quite magnificent!

fro
[This message was edited Fri Oct 31 8:28:27 PST 2003 by PFunkjazz]
test
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Reply #66 posted 10/31/03 8:32am

PFunkjazz

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papabeat said:


It was R&B of the time it was recorded. The drum programs were fresh then.


barf
I just don't find a lot to like in electronic drums.
Never liked 'em;makes everything sound mechanical and dated.

Never liked synth horns much either.
test
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Reply #67 posted 10/31/03 8:36am

DaFunkFreak

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soulpower said:

papabeat said:


I understand we're off topic, but you're not really being fair. Vanity 6 isn't trying to be acoustic jazz. It was R&B of the time it was recorded. The drum programs were fresh then. Sure the keys were easy, but they fit the funk. And while Prince has tried jazz with modest results, I haven't seen Chick Corea or any of his peers write a Top 40 song on the order of Raspberry Beret.



I didnt say that Vanity was supposed to be jazz .. lol... they were R&B. I dont know any musician who considered these side projects seriously. They were rubbish and consisted of chicks Prince chose for their skills in bed rather than singing.

People like Chick Corea would never write a Top 40 song because they were never interested. They easily could. Look at Herbie Hancock who was all the way up in the charts in the early 80s, and look at Roy Hargrove today, who is working with Erykah Badu. Roy Ayers has been in the top charts as well, and that back in the 70s already.

Prince however WANTED to be in the charts. Until TRC, all of his records included material which was written to climb up the charts.


Well said. However, as far as Prince's side projects are concerned, let me just say that, in my humble opinion, the first Sheila E (Glamorous Life) and the first two Madhouse LPs (even though they're not jazz per se) are really great albums. And based on what Nielsen wrote in DMSR - The First Decade, Prince played almost all instruments for these projects. Which shows that he is (used to be?) amazingly gifted and that his side projects were not 100% garbage. (the drum parts in Madhouse are really really impressive and subtle for instance). Just my two cents in any case!
[This message was edited Fri Oct 31 8:38:21 PST 2003 by DaFunkFreak]
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Reply #68 posted 10/31/03 8:39am

soulpower

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DaFunkFreak said:

his side projects were not 100% garbage. (the drum parst in Madhouse are really really impressive and subtle for instance). Just my two cents in any case!



Thats true. Madhouse is okay. It doesnt get me excited, but he tried at least. Its always hard to create a jazz feel when you play all the instruments by yourself and then mix them together. The Soul of Jazz comes through the harmonic experience of playing together.
"Peace and Benz -- The future, made in Germany" peace
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Reply #69 posted 10/31/03 8:45am

DaFunkFreak

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soulpower said:

DaFunkFreak said:

his side projects were not 100% garbage. (the drum parst in Madhouse are really really impressive and subtle for instance). Just my two cents in any case!



Thats true. Madhouse is okay. It doesnt get me excited, but he tried at least. Its always hard to create a jazz feel when you play all the instruments by yourself and then mix them together. The Soul of Jazz comes through the harmonic experience of playing together.


That's precisely what's interesting with Madhouse! Prince did not receive a classical or even jazz training. He does not read music. He got into sophisticated music thanks to Lisa and Wendy and stopped opening up when the girls left in 1986 (he stated back in the 90s that he was only listening to his own stuff). So I don't think Prince did or will play jazz as you describe it (NEWS is not all crap but does not qualify as jazz either). But still, he achieved something quite original with Madhouse, somewhere between jazz and funk I'd say.
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Reply #70 posted 10/31/03 8:47am

soulpower

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DaFunkFreak said:


That's precisely what's interesting with Madhouse! Prince did not receive a classical or even jazz training. He does not read music. He got into sophisticated music thanks to Lisa and Wendy and stopped opening up when the girls left in 1986 (he stated back in the 90s that he was only listening to his own stuff). So I don't think Prince did or will play jazz as you describe it (NEWS is not all crap but does not qualify as jazz either). But still, he achieved something quite original with Madhouse, somewhere between jazz and funk I'd say.



Thats all true, but only very few jazz musicians have had classical training or jazz training.
Fact is, Prince is NOT a jazz musician, period. He is a good musician, but he is more a pop or at the most a funk player. He doesnt have the skills to make jazz sound really great. It can sound good, but because he`s Prince, I`d expect more from him than sounding good. And thats what Madhouse does... it sounds good. But thats it.
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Reply #71 posted 10/31/03 8:58am

DaFunkFreak

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soulpower said:

DaFunkFreak said:


That's precisely what's interesting with Madhouse! Prince did not receive a classical or even jazz training. He does not read music. He got into sophisticated music thanks to Lisa and Wendy and stopped opening up when the girls left in 1986 (he stated back in the 90s that he was only listening to his own stuff). So I don't think Prince did or will play jazz as you describe it (NEWS is not all crap but does not qualify as jazz either). But still, he achieved something quite original with Madhouse, somewhere between jazz and funk I'd say.



Thats all true, but only very few jazz musicians have had classical training or jazz training.
Fact is, Prince is NOT a jazz musician, period. He is a good musician, but he is more a pop or at the most a funk player. He doesnt have the skills to make jazz sound really great. It can sound good, but because he`s Prince, I`d expect more from him than sounding good. And thats what Madhouse does... it sounds good. But thats it.


Point taken. Even though I'd be willing to settle for a mere "sounding good" Prince record any day!! All in all, it's quite difficult to understand why Prince went from Lovesexy to Graffity Bridge so rapidly. Prince was at his peak in 1987-88, and then decided to explore rather unconvincing territories: pompous arrangements, poor melodies, and - above all - facile songwriting. This still amazes me to tell you the truth. What the hell happened? (Alex Hahn's theory of Prince's obsessed control may be valid somehow, even though that doesn't explain everything). Just as if Prince's musical genius dried off...Weird.
[This message was edited Fri Oct 31 9:00:19 PST 2003 by DaFunkFreak]
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Reply #72 posted 10/31/03 9:01am

papabeat

soulpower said:

papabeat said:


I understand we're off topic, but you're not really being fair. Vanity 6 isn't trying to be acoustic jazz. It was R&B of the time it was recorded. The drum programs were fresh then. Sure the keys were easy, but they fit the funk. And while Prince has tried jazz with modest results, I haven't seen Chick Corea or any of his peers write a Top 40 song on the order of Raspberry Beret.



I didnt say that Vanity was supposed to be jazz .. lol... they were R&B. I dont know any musician who considered these side projects seriously. They were rubbish and consisted of chicks Prince chose for their skills in bed rather than singing.

People like Chick Corea would never write a Top 40 song because they were never interested. They easily could. Look at Herbie Hancock who was all the way up in the charts in the early 80s, and look at Roy Hargrove today, who is working with Erykah Badu. Roy Ayers has been in the top charts as well, and that back in the 70s already.

Prince however WANTED to be in the charts. Until TRC, all of his records included material which was written to climb up the charts.



Okay, so it's not jazz, it's R&B. But by saying Vanity is nothing more than "lay down a lame drum beat and add some cheesy, unskilled synths," aren't you insulting Prince,and to a broader extent, R&B musicians?

And to say that jazz musicians easity could write a top 40 song, prove it. Your examples suck. Mantronix's contribution was as important to Rockit as Herbie Hancock's, and Roy Hargrove did nothing but play on Erykah Badu's album. That's implication is like saying Sonny Rollins was responsible for the Rolling Stones top 10 song "Waiting on a Friend," even though Mick and Keith wrote, produced and performed everything but the solo.

As for Chick, most of that fusion crap was nothing but a blatant attempt to court the rock crowd that saw the success that Miles' was having with his recordings. They wanted commercial success, but still failed miserably.
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Reply #73 posted 10/31/03 9:05am

papabeat

PFunkjazz said:

papabeat said:


It was R&B of the time it was recorded. The drum programs were fresh then.


barf
I just don't find a lot to like in electronic drums.
Never liked 'em;makes everything sound mechanical and dated.

Never liked synth horns much either.

So what? I don't like Dixieland, because it sounds conventional and dated. Vanity 6 was the sound of the time. Much of R&B dated because it's production is so rooted in finding new beats and sounds. In 1982, Prince's rhythms were at the fore. People caught up, and now it sounds conventional.
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Reply #74 posted 10/31/03 9:07am

soulpower

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papabeat said:


Okay, so it's not jazz, it's R&B. But by saying Vanity is nothing more than "lay down a lame drum beat and add some cheesy, unskilled synths," aren't you insulting Prince,and to a broader extent, R&B musicians?

The R&B musicians I know consider that stuff "crap". And I am sorry if I have insulted Prince for chosing to record a good fuck rather than a good voice. These projects sound like Prince did them in 30 minutes, and I believe Prince knows this too.

And to say that jazz musicians easity could write a top 40 song, prove it. Your examples suck. Mantronix's contribution was as important to Rockit as Herbie Hancock's, and Roy Hargrove did nothing but play on Erykah Badu's album.

Erykah is singing on Roy`s latest album and its extremely mainstream but still brilliant. Go check it out for yourself, its called "Hardgroove". Its obvious that you dont know what you are talking about.

As for Chick, most of that fusion crap was nothing but a blatant attempt to court the rock crowd that saw the success that Miles' was having with his recordings. They wanted commercial success, but still failed miserably.


Did Chick tell you that? Until he does, shut up. Fusion was a logical consequence in the late 1960s, but its still Jazz. Only very few jazz musicians went Pop, like Donald Byrd or Roy Ayers, and both of them had some hits and are being sampled to death today. So relax, I dont know of any serious jazz musician who really WANTED to have a tune in the top 40 and worked for it.
"Peace and Benz -- The future, made in Germany" peace
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Reply #75 posted 10/31/03 9:09am

soulpower

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papabeat said:


So what? I don't like Dixieland, because it sounds conventional and dated. Vanity 6 was the sound of the time. Much of R&B dated because it's production is so rooted in finding new beats and sounds. In 1982, Prince's rhythms were at the fore. People caught up, and now it sounds conventional.



lol You are so funny. So you dont like Dixieland because it sounds conventional and dated, but Vanity is okay because it was the sound of its time? Did it ever occur to you that Dixieland (or early jazz) was the sound of its time as well and had much more impact on music history than Vanity ever will?

Admit it, you just happen to LIKE Vanity. Thats okay, nobody is bashing you for that, its your taste.
"Peace and Benz -- The future, made in Germany" peace
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Reply #76 posted 10/31/03 9:10am

soulpower

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DaFunkFreak said:

Prince was at his peak in 1987-88



Actually, I think that he is at his peak today. He never sounded funkier. But thats just my taste. wink
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Reply #77 posted 10/31/03 9:11am

DaFunkFreak

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soulpower said:

papabeat said:


Okay, so it's not jazz, it's R&B. But by saying Vanity is nothing more than "lay down a lame drum beat and add some cheesy, unskilled synths," aren't you insulting Prince,and to a broader extent, R&B musicians?

The R&B musicians I know consider that stuff "crap". And I am sorry if I have insulted Prince for chosing to record a good fuck rather than a good voice. These projects sound like Prince did them in 30 minutes, and I believe Prince knows this too.

And to say that jazz musicians easity could write a top 40 song, prove it. Your examples suck. Mantronix's contribution was as important to Rockit as Herbie Hancock's, and Roy Hargrove did nothing but play on Erykah Badu's album.

Erykah is singing on Roy`s latest album and its extremely mainstream but still brilliant. Go check it out for yourself, its called "Hardgroove". Its obvious that you dont know what you are talking about.

As for Chick, most of that fusion crap was nothing but a blatant attempt to court the rock crowd that saw the success that Miles' was having with his recordings. They wanted commercial success, but still failed miserably.


Did Chick tell you that? Until he does, shut up. Fusion was a logical consequence in the late 1960s, but its still Jazz. Only very few jazz musicians went Pop, like Donald Byrd or Roy Ayers, and both of them had some hits and are being sampled to death today. So relax, I dont know of any serious jazz musician who really WANTED to have a tune in the top 40 and worked for it.


Soulpowe ris right, and Roy Ayers' Every Body Loves the Sunshine is such a great mainstream hit song! (another good example of a jazz musician being commercially successful: Louis Armstrong. I rest my case!)
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Reply #78 posted 10/31/03 9:12am

soulpower

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DaFunkFreak said:


Soulpowe ris right, and Roy Ayers' Every Body Loves the Sunshine is such a great mainstream hit song! (another good example of a jazz musician being commercially successful: Louis Armstrong. I rest my case!)



Thats true. "Wonderful world", although not written by him, is a major pop hit.
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Reply #79 posted 10/31/03 9:23am

bananacologne

CynthiasSocks said:

bananacologne said:

softandwet said:

bananacologne said:

BowiE

yeah but has bowie put out more than prince? prince has done around 26 albums at least? i dont think bowie has done that?

people just seem to be listing artists with alot of albums. plus we're talking about how prolific, has bowie put out on average more than one album a year, several of which multi discs?

plus how many albums has dylan done?! cos i have this rock n roll encyclopaedia which names all releases and etc and dylan has less than 30 im sure? plus james brown did not have 90 albums, remember for the first years he released a single every 3 months, (just looking it up now) his first single was 56, and his first album, live at the apollo, 62. between that time he released around 25 singles in 8 years, but really quite a few of these seem to be covers anyway. ive just counted about 45 albums, and after 85/86 there were many compilations i didnt count, and even this 45 contains MANY compliations and live albums.
plus i dont know how long these albums were, it would be more realistic to look at run time of songs, i say this because from late 80s onwards (where james brown released one album of original material of 10 songs so probs no more than 40 mins anyway) albums significantly increased in length due to cds. in this time, prince did d and p (an hour?) symbol (75 mins, you could cut that into 2 60s albums) come is around 60.70mins? gold experience is long too. obvioulsy emancipation is 3 hours. plus prince was bound in the 80s to an album a year really whereas obviously in the 60s james brown seemed to release 2 albums in a month at one point

however, how many albums would prince have if in the early 90s warner had let him release 4 albums a year like he wanted? tonnes more! it only seems like now prince isthinking free, releasing a 7 cd box set, NEWS, xpectation and hopefully a musicology album all in ONE YEAR. incredibly for todays standards.

lets not also forget all the albums prince wrote but released for someone else or under a pseudonym. madhouse has what 2 albums and recorded a 3rd. how many time albums did prince write? at least 2, plus vanity 6 and apollonia 6. sheila e. sheena easton. so on so forth. so i reckon prince surely has coming on 40 albums...in 25 years? dont even pretend bowie has done that!!!


33 and counting + numerous collaborations, guest vocals, production credits, (on renowned CLASSIC albums), and a wealth of unreleased material thanku very much.

I think however that whoever posted ZappA on here made a good call - that guys pisses over everybody - he probably recorded himself taking a bath and logged it.

PS: Very defensive aren't we!
chill pill



"Reality" is Bowie's 26th Studio album
[This message was edited Fri Oct 31 7:23:04 PST 2003 by CynthiasSocks]


I know - but I included ALL official International releases, as they count just as much as say, ONA box set/The Hits/ONA (solo) etc etc...

This has been a public service announcement brought 2 u by banana inc. and the letter P tease
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Reply #80 posted 10/31/03 9:24am

bananacologne

softandwet said:

33 and counting + numerous collaborations, guest vocals, production credits, (on renowned CLASSIC albums), and a wealth of unreleased material thanku very much.

I think however that whoever posted ZappA on here made a good call - that guys pisses over everybody - he probably recorded himself taking a bath and logged it.

PS: Very defensive aren't we!
chill pill



lol, sorry for coming across as defensive i totally didnt mean it, but it seemed like people were naming people who werent necessarily more prolific than prince! besides, 33 albums in what, 36 years? is not more prolific than 26 in 25. plus thats not including wha prince did elsewhere so on. and i do believe prince has a wealth of unreleased music too! thank you very much! lol
but sorry again if i seemed aggresive, i just get confused when people say "hey this guy has released 1000 albums!" which i think someone said of johnny cash!

big grin It's all good! hug
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Reply #81 posted 10/31/03 9:24am

DaFunkFreak

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soulpower said:

DaFunkFreak said:

Prince was at his peak in 1987-88



Actually, I think that he is at his peak today. He never sounded funkier. But thats just my taste. wink


Well, I loved the ONA tour (the Bataclan aftershow in Paris was really breathtaking), even though it was a little bit too "Vegas" like for me (the Aladdin DVD is a good example of that trend), and I've been told (haven't heard them yet wink) that the OZ shows are not that great...But still, SOTT and Lovesexy were amazing shows (but hey, maybe I'm too nostalgic!)
[This message was edited Fri Oct 31 9:30:17 PST 2003 by DaFunkFreak]
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Reply #82 posted 10/31/03 9:24am

PFunkjazz

avatar

papabeat said:

PFunkjazz said:

papabeat said:


It was R&B of the time it was recorded. The drum programs were fresh then.


barf
I just don't find a lot to like in electronic drums.
Never liked 'em;makes everything sound mechanical and dated.

Never liked synth horns much either.

So what? I don't like Dixieland, because it sounds conventional and dated. Vanity 6 was the sound of the time. Much of R&B dated because it's production is so rooted in finding new beats and sounds. In 1982, Prince's rhythms were at the fore. People caught up, and now it sounds conventional.



This clearly explains why Brittney Spears is a leading musical innovator. Half naked sexy hoes shakin' ass to canned beats and rhythms. Bores me to no end, but it does make strip clubs a whole lotta fun!
test
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Reply #83 posted 10/31/03 9:28am

papabeat

soulpower said:

papabeat said:


So what? I don't like Dixieland, because it sounds conventional and dated. Vanity 6 was the sound of the time. Much of R&B dated because it's production is so rooted in finding new beats and sounds. In 1982, Prince's rhythms were at the fore. People caught up, and now it sounds conventional.



lol You are so funny. So you dont like Dixieland because it sounds conventional and dated, but Vanity is okay because it was the sound of its time? Did it ever occur to you that Dixieland (or early jazz) was the sound of its time as well and had much more impact on music history than Vanity ever will?

Admit it, you just happen to LIKE Vanity. Thats okay, nobody is bashing you for that, its your taste.

All I was doing was shedding light on the silliness of your point. You said you didn't like Vanity because of its dated sound, as if it has a freshness stamp or something. I was merely using Dixieland to illustrate the point.
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Reply #84 posted 10/31/03 9:39am

PFunkjazz

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papabeat said:[quote]soulpower said:[quote]

papabeat said:




As for Chick, most of that fusion crap was nothing but a blatant attempt to court the rock crowd that saw the success that Miles' was having with his recordings. They wanted commercial success, but still failed miserably.



Actually, the big failing of fusion was when it "courted" the quiet storm crowd and created "Wave" jazz. That is indeed what drove me away from fusion. If cats kept up the rock part I'd have been infinitely more happy, but everyone seemed to want that pop-crossover success. Check the "jamband" scene for how well jazz and rock are meshing today.

If you had half a clue, you'd know that artists like Corea, and Hancock did not fail but were extremely successful in bringing new folks to jazz. Not top 40 hit record success, but that standard is measured best over the long haul with "deep catalog sales". When you figure economies of scale,labels like BLUE NOTE and VERVE etc do extremely good business and royalties to aritsts get paid.
test
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Reply #85 posted 10/31/03 9:42am

whodknee

There's a lot of musical snobbery in here. Jazz WAS great back when it was relevant and before the mainstream latched on. As far as comparing some of these other guys with Prince, well show me what they could play and the SONGS they wrote. It's much easier to jam around a basic idea then compose music with lyrics.

Some knuckleheads are holding up Vanity's songs as an example of what Prince was doing. We know he didn't think much of those and that's why he gave them to her. If Prince's goal back in his heyday was to be the best jazz musician around I'm sure he'd be up there with Miles, Ellington, etc. As it is, he wanted to be famous and current so he chose to do "popular" music. However, his brand of pop was unique so in this case that's not a bad thing.
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Reply #86 posted 10/31/03 9:45am

papabeat

soulpower said:

papabeat said:


Okay, so it's not jazz, it's R&B. But by saying Vanity is nothing more than "lay down a lame drum beat and add some cheesy, unskilled synths," aren't you insulting Prince,and to a broader extent, R&B musicians?

The R&B musicians I know consider that stuff "crap". And I am sorry if I have insulted Prince for chosing to record a good fuck rather than a good voice. These projects sound like Prince did them in 30 minutes, and I believe Prince knows this too.

If speed is an indicator of quality, I'll have to revise my thoughts on "Kind of Blue." What a piece of shit that was, recorded in single takes and all.

And to say that jazz musicians easity could write a top 40 song, prove it. Your examples suck. Mantronix's contribution was as important to Rockit as Herbie Hancock's, and Roy Hargrove did nothing but play on Erykah Badu's album.

Erykah is singing on Roy`s latest album and its extremely mainstream but still brilliant. Go check it out for yourself, its called "Hardgroove". Its obvious that you dont know what you are talking about.

I was referring to Erykah's album. Thank you, however, for pointing out my mistake, as I didn't know about Mr. Hargrove's highly recommended album. I look forward to finding it. Thanks for the tip.
As for Chick, most of that fusion crap was nothing but a blatant attempt to court the rock crowd that saw the success that Miles' was having with his recordings. They wanted commercial success, but still failed miserably.


Did Chick tell you that? Until he does, shut up. Fusion was a logical consequence in the late 1960s, but its still Jazz. Only very few jazz musicians went Pop, like Donald Byrd or Roy Ayers, and both of them had some hits and are being sampled to death today. So relax, I dont know of any serious jazz musician who really WANTED to have a tune in the top 40 and worked for it.
Did Chick tell you I'm wrong? Until he does, shut up. The modest chart successes of Weather Report, Headhunters, and the increasing simplicity of fusion, until it morphed into Quiet Storm, suggests that many of those artists were taking cues from rock and pop to court larger audiences. Using your argument of logical consequences, we would have seen jazz move more wholesale into European dissonance, ala Anthony Braxton and Joe McPhee. That we didn't see that happen says something about the relative conservatism or hope for success that these artist wanted. That they didn't reach mainstream success (except for the occasional Grover Washington or George Benson hit) also says something.
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Reply #87 posted 10/31/03 9:48am

wildblueangel

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moby?
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Reply #88 posted 10/31/03 9:55am

papabeat

whodknee said:

There's a lot of musical snobbery in here. Jazz WAS great back when it was relevant and before the mainstream latched on. As far as comparing some of these other guys with Prince, well show me what they could play and the SONGS they wrote. It's much easier to jam around a basic idea then compose music with lyrics.

Some knuckleheads are holding up Vanity's songs as an example of what Prince was doing. We know he didn't think much of those and that's why he gave them to her. If Prince's goal back in his heyday was to be the best jazz musician around I'm sure he'd be up there with Miles, Ellington, etc. As it is, he wanted to be famous and current so he chose to do "popular" music. However, his brand of pop was unique so in this case that's not a bad thing.

Yeah, he hated the songs so much that he decided they were worthy of release, instead of keeping them in the vault. He thought so little of Nasty Girl that he sampled it for his Hot Wit U remix. Was Appolonia 6 just his attempt to redeem himself from the failed efforts of Vanity 6 by writing a masterpiece? Please explain.
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Reply #89 posted 10/31/03 9:57am

PFunkjazz

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lol

this is great!

WEATHER REPORT's chart success is viewed as "modest".
Tell that to Zawinul, Shorter and Pastorius and the SONY/COLUMBIA jazz division. lol It's only recognized as the most unique and influential post-BICHES BREW unit in the genre. Even by the stodgiest of standards!

You Prince fams are nutty!!!
test
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