what just happened here?

i think a train just ran

through this thread

back 2 the topic:

prince should be appreciated

as the genius he is

right here and right now

To be fair to Kurt Cobain, he had a number of great albums, and changed music history, with the soft-loud structure, simple yet brilliant. In Utero is a masterpiece, and includes the amazing songs, Rape Me, Frances Farmer, Heart Shaped-Box, and my favourite All Apologies, and so was Nevermind. Kurt could not cope with the pressures of fame, and needed some wise heads to prevail, to give him advice. He hated Pearl Jam, so it is silly to lump them together. Grunge was just a label the media used...
When Teen Spirit hit No.1 in the U.S, with heavy rotation on MTV, Kurt was impoverished and homeless, sleeping in a car. So the fame and success came a bit too quickly for him.
Also, Miles Davis was a junkie too, and really did not have any great albums since the 1960s, nothing later on really counts as great music. He just had a reputation. Miles is a nobody compared to Prince...Kurt was an artist genius like Prince...The number of albums made really doesn't count...
[This message was edited Mon Oct 27 0:56:44 PST 2003 by davidmelbourne]
[This message was edited Mon Oct 27 0:57:59 PST 2003 by davidmelbourne]
[This message was edited Mon Oct 27 0:59:11 PST 2003 by davidmelbourne]

Imas seems quite harsh on Kurt. He did not become part of a grunge scene, it was a label invented by the media...Also, if you have ever seen a talented friend, like I have, give into the human weakness of addiction and become a heroin user, it is not a pretty sight, it is a sad tragic one...Anyway, it does not pay to speak ill of the dead, it gains nothing, only bad karma...Besides Kurt Cobain had a family history of depression and suicide, a number of his relatives killed themselves before, so it is something genetic...And if you have never made a mistake in your life, I'll read the next post with interest...

1p1p1i3 said:

Since you list kylie Minogue as one of your favorite artists, I am not surprised that you find Prince more accessible than Miles.

It doesnt make him greater than Miles, hell no!

davidmelbourne said:

Will a boxset still be released next year?

lmas said:

seanski said:

Ok, now this is just sounding like 3rd grade now.

soulpower said:

SoulPower,I am always impressed with everything you say,and the way you say it.Even when I don't agree with you,I still like the way you articulate your views.Great job,man!

DavidEye said:

You dont always agree with me??? How dare you!

soulpower said:

Hey,I agree with 99% of the stuff you write,but there's always that one percent,you know

DavidEye said:

Its sometimes annoying to read narrowminded threads like this one in the tone of "Prince is the greatest musician who has ever lived and there is nobody better than him".

Its possible that Prince might believe that as well, but it just shows off so much musical ignorance of people.

soulpower said:

U know SoulPower u make some really great "OPINIONS" just like I do, but the difference between U and I are that I know I am stating opinions as for conversation pieces= the reason for the ORG. If a juvenile fight is what U want I will not surcumb to your seemingly stupid remarks such as "Well, what did you expect when you post nonsense like this thread?" because if I were 2 lash out at U like I was once known to do (under a different Screen Name) I may be banned from the ORG.

But I will say if u like u can just not participate in my threads. That might ease your pain, but if it doesn't then F-CK U!


Now DAVIDEYE (no offense to U) that is "ARTICULATE!" once again just my opinion.
[This message was edited Mon Oct 27 6:10:12 PST 2003 by lmas]

I am not praising Cobain

Just stating the FACTS that he didn't release one album and then blew his head off which Imas seems to think happened.

I think Cobain was a fucking loser if it matters

lmas said:

I think lmas is seanski

lmas said:

There are a couple points you make here that are easily refuted. First is that Miles' profile has been elevated since his death. Second is that Prince's catalog is so diverse because of his endurance in the industry, that it has also diluted his genius.

For your first point, Miles was already regarded as a wunderkind when he began playing with Charlie Parker (who was considered a genius in his lifetime also despite his early death). Given that bebop was the prevalent jazz style of the time, it was considered very innovative that Miles' first album, Birth of the Cool, eschewed bebop for a new style, cool jazz. From there, his legend only grew. In fact, a quick pass over the AMG list of 5 star albums offers the following:
Birth of the Cool
Bag's Groove
Miles Davis and the Modern Jazz Giants
Round About Midnight
Cookin
Workin
Steamin
Relaxin
Miles Ahead
Milestones
Porgy And Bess
Kind of Blue
Sketches of Spain
E.S.P.
Miles Smiles
Nefertiti
Miles in the Sky
In a Silent Way
Bitches Brew
Jack Johnson
On The Corner

Of these, perhaps 10 or so were considered revolutionary, groundbreaking or enabled jazz to change in some significant way. In addition, Kind of Blue is wildly regarded as the greatest jazz album ever, and this was considered so decades before his death.

On the other hand, Prince has contributed the following (including 4.5 star reviews and albums he wrote for others):
Dirty Mind
1999
Purple Rain
Parade
SOTT
Symbol
Jill Jones
What Time is It?
The Glamorous Life

Of these, Dirty Mind, 1999, Purple Rain and SOTT could be considered influential in the same manner of Miles' albums.

As for your second point, the music Miles made in the 1970s was wildly different from the stuff he made in the 60s with the second Quintet, which was wildly different from his 1950s with his first Quintet, which was wildly different from his Nonet and Birth of the Cool. Moreso, each of his classic electric albums (Silent Way, Bitches Brew, Jack Johnson, On The Corner) are wildly different in styles. His legacy was built not only by the variety of his music, which is the same thing you claim people are saying is impeding Prince's legacy, but by the QUALITY of that music within that variety of styles.

rdhull said:

soulpower said:

[/quote]



As always great responses, I really like this cat. As for my old name I cannot say I don't have the energy to come up with another one if the two were connected. As for my admiration for Miles Davis' work believe me in Jazz circles he rings them around everyone else including Prince, but it is my opinion that Prince as a diverse musician of so many forms of the sound is more so a Genius

rdhull said:

Definitely not. Lmas is Lmas. By the way I love your avatar of Mayte she was so damn beautiful.

The mark of genius is to communicate to the mass of people.
Like Andy Warhol or Picasso. If you ask most people about music, they will have heard of Prince, the Beatles & the Rolling Stones, but not of Miles Davis. So whatever your personal obbsession with Davis is, that's fine, but it doesn't strike a note with the wider community, which is what counts. Most people hate jazz. When I was younger I used to listen it, to feel "different" from most people. But as you get older, you realise life is short and you listen to the music you ENJOY, but you can't explain why you like it. But not everything needs to be explained anyway. We can't be rational all the time, and if we were, we would be very boring indeed. In terms of current jazz, Norah Jones is a prime example, the short of lightweight muzak, not music, they would play in a Starbucks cafe...I as for one, am now really appreciating Prince and the Stones' greatest hits album, including Miss You and Emotional Rescue, where they include funk and disco with rock, like a hybrid. And Prince is a hybrid too, taking on various influences...But I find jazz morbid & depressing, like Miles Davis himself, a loser...
[This message was edited Tue Oct 28 1:18:08 PST 2003 by davidmelbourne]

Miles Davis didn't change his name to a symbol for a few years. Unfortunately a lot of people will remember Prince for his eccentricities rather than for his music. Michael Jackson is the perfect example of this. Prince's public image is not nearly as skewed as MJ's, but it sure isn't as "normal" as Miles Davis's.

I think Prince will be remembered as a genius by people who were into his music to begin with. But to those who didn't know his stuff, they will probably just remember the crap that the media shovels out. But Prince did bring much of it on himself with some of his wackier behavior like the "Slave" thing and the name-change thing.

davidmelbourne said:

So,are you saying that Miles Davis was a loser??

Well, Miles Davis, was a heroin addict in his later years, like Kurt Cobain. So in their later years they were both losers. But early on they were geniuses. The problem is, genius artists like Davis & Cobain are very hard on themselves, very self-critical. Cobain never recovered from the early divorce of his parents and took refuge in music. Whereas, Miles Davis looked at his early brilliant albums, and probably criticised himself for not creating new ones as famous. Genuine original artists, like Cobain, are sensitive, irrational people and we don't know what goes through their minds. Especially since Kurt, one of the great innovative musicians in decades, killed himself. He felt unworthy because he thought he was a fraud, and had betrayed his original ethos when he started out as an unknown. He had such high standards, he knew most other commercial groups were frauds anyway. He was very hard on himself.
[This message was edited Tue Oct 28 2:32:04 PST 2003 by davidmelbourne]

davidmelbourne said:

Thats some funny shit you wrote up there. Another case of someone who didnt study music but believes he can make a case. If you find Miles (and his music, jazz) morbid and depressing.. well thats your problem. However, Jazz is the most democratic, free and skilled music there is to play. Jazz has influenced musicians of all sorts... Santana and even Bono from U2 have called "A Love Supreme" by John Coltrane the most influential and isnpiring piece of music they know.

If you are interested in reading the definitive biography of Kurt Cobain, "Heavier than Heaven" by Charles R. Cross is a superb book...Cross lived near Seattle and knew Cobain when he was a nobody...Kurt was also a highly gifted artist at high school and was recognised by his art teachers as having potential...He used to skip the other classes...He felt angry, resentful and abandoned because his parents had divorced in his teenage years...But he was a happy boy until then, before they separated...
[This message was edited Tue Oct 28 2:38:37 PST 2003 by davidmelbourne]