Back in the 80s, I have collected pretty much all unreleased recordings available on the black market. Back then, we would trade tapes... and most were in pretty terrible sound quality. I was glad when the bootleg series "The Work" came out..

Back then, 15 years ago, and still today people complain that Prince should release more gems from the vault over the NPGMC. As a former collector, I wonder by today, if this vault does exist or if its a myth. Maybe Prince indeed has released most material from the vault, except for some stuff which is of such low artistic and musical quality that he would rather not have it circulating.

Its just a thesis. But maybe its the truth. Maybe fans will be waiting for ever for the "secret gems of the vault" to be released because there are no such things...

Yeah,I have this feeling that those of us who have many Prince bootlegs have already heard "the cream of the crop",as far as gems go.But I hope I'm wrong.Remember,there is still that big album called 'The Dawn' that Prince has mentioned.

DavidEye said:

Prince has mentioned many things in the past 20 years. Not many of these things were actually happening.

soulpower said:

True

This doesnt mean that I wont give up hope. But I certainly wont join (and never have joined) NPGMC for the sole purpose of getting this material.

Okay, you two make very sensible points. My question is (since I don't have many boots)

Approximately how many unrealeased songs are out on bootleg now?

In one interview I remember Prince saying he had 300/700 songs that were yet to be released. But that was, what, 10-15 years ago?

I was never one of those die-hard fans who would actually bother to count Prince`s songs. But I remember that there was a thread not too long ago which came to -- I believe -- about 900 songs, including demos of tunes he wrote for other artists.

Does that include dups and songs released under different names? Like Moonbeam Levels, etc?

I think this is true...I think there might be a bit of unreleased stuff that he's been able to keep a cap on, but the majority of it - the best stuff - has been leaked to bootleggers. Interesting that now that he's "free" from his Warners contract, the amount of bootlegged outtake material circulating around has all but dried up completely.

You only have to look at the index in DMSR, or Turn It Up too see that there are hundreds of songs that are NOT widely circulating (i.e. bootlegged), although we'd have to ask those collectors who have the un-bootlegged ones just how many of them are circulating amongst said collectors.

Anyone of you want to state what is and what is not "out there"?

The vault exists in the lower level of Paisley Park Recording Studios in Chanhassen,MN. It is an average sized bank vault and was actually shown during the video of the Ryde Divyne. As for how many more recordings both audio and video tape are located there. I would say tons more. He has recorded every Paisley Park performance and also has many private sessions with people such as mariah Carey,Madonna,Sheryl Crowe,Spice Girls,Kim Basinger,Sheena Easton and the list goes on.Prince stores his videos there as well as audio. Thats about all I can recall right now but will add more to this threadage later if something pops up. Peace from Minneapolis

MinneapolisFunk said:

Please tell me your kiding! What the hell did Prince want with them talentless self obsessed losers!

My sure Prince knows about the demand for unreleased material, and I know he is able to release music any time he wants. To this day he has released CDs independantly and (if his NPGMC advert is anything to go by) is planing to do so in future, plus he can release music anytime he wants to his fans through his music club.

Therefore if he wanted to release it he could and so far he hasn't. Let's just enjoy the experiences he's worked his whole life on to provide for us by enjoying the music he does release. If he thought his unreleased stuff was better, he'd release that instead.

Oh I just know that at least one of them was at Paisley Park and knowing Prince he doesnt let people get outta Paisley Park without laying down a track or two.

CAMILLE4U said:

think about it.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Trust me, concidering what their music is like that was the first thing I thought of. But Prince could have anyone, he could of at least gone for The Corrs.
[This message was edited Fri Oct 17 9:24:17 PDT 2003 by CAMILLE4U]

CAMILLE4U said:

No wonder he worked with no doubt. He is a smart guy.



(NB: I think No doubt make GREAT music... but I'm sure Gwen makes a greater night time body warmer.)

Romance1600 said:

Well, my point is that I highly doubt that his true masterpieces remain unknown and that the vault still hides hundreds of songs which are totally unknown to the fanbase.

MinneapolisFunk said:

Well, I know that the vault exists. Its a matter of whats in there that we have never heard of. I agree, all these recorded life performances are priceless. But I was refering to unreleased studio songs, noz just lose jams but songs technically ready for release.

CAMILLE4U said:

Most of the people Prince has produced over the years were talentless and self obsessed losers. Vanity 6 and Appolonia 6 for example are no better than the Spice Girls.

I guess the thing is that the man just doesn't stop working and i bet there's still many stuck in the vault. I wonder how many he has erased due to his new found beliefs!. I have something like 300 or so unreleased tracks , as oppossed to alternate versions and demos for other artists and from the DMSR Turn it up book i think theres only about 15 or so tracks i dont have [where the hell do i get WOW from?]. Didn't someone mention a quote from Wendy saying the bset Revolution stuff hasn't been released, i suspect we hardcore fans have it already [parade out takes, etc] , mind you if Splash was anything to go by the revolution stuff isn't that great anyway!.
The sad fact ,IMHO, is that as great a musical genuis that he is his decion making on what to release has been poor when you consider what we have on Boot. Sometimes Prince should NOT listen to his spirit and listen to us once in a while!.

He might have over a thousand. Which I believe he does, since I collected a majority in my trading day. but If you think all those songs are ready to be produced, u obviously havent heard the shit i've heard. I got hundreds of cd's of proof.
[This message was edited Fri Oct 17 10:25:41 PDT 2003 by Sdldawn]

I listened to snippets from a CD of about 25 uncirculating songs (like Cosmic Day, Adonis and Batsheeba, ...Fat Lady, Everybody Want What They Don't Got) and you know what? In the end, these tunes are really not worth all the expectation. Prince is fairly decent judge of his recorded material and has clearly picked the best of what he recorded for release. The things left over are left over for a reason. Don't pine for these things - you will be sorely dissappointed.
[This message was edited Fri Oct 17 10:49:01 PDT 2003 by Jestyr]

Jestyr said:

U havn't heard Moonbeam levels have U.

soulpower said:

Well, Vanity and Apollonia were probably not the greatest musical talents but there was certainly value in them. Id rather of had them getting tons of UK nuumber ones in the mid 90s then those Spice stuck up maddams.

Romance1600 said:

a rough guide to what is out there:

http://www.prince3922.fre...ament.html

CAMILLE4U said:

Actually, that was one of the tracks and you know what? It would have taken the place of Little Red Corvette. Which would you rather have released? The song's lyrics make no sense anyway.

Moonbeam levels is a good track and worthy of release. How many other gems are there? I suspect not as many as some would believe.

Of a supposed 1000+ songs, can you pick 10+Moonbeam levels to go on a killer album. I have over 200 unreleased tracks and couldn't honestly pick 10 more to make a killer album.

What would your album of boots consist of?

I think some of the times it was a matter of having a great song but it just didn't fit in with the album concept so it was shelved for later use or on a B-side. I bet there's other stuff in there that were the victim of these kinds of circumstances that would blow your socks off.

Jestyr and Soulpower are quite right.
Prince has always released what he considers to be his best
material, and he's almost always right when it comes to this.

Most of what is in the vault is very interesting to hear, but
can hardly be considered his best work. Of course there are
also quite a few songs that are on par with his released work
in there also, but were not released because a: a better song
was written which replaced it on the album, or b: the song
did not fit musically or thematically with the album of that time.

Do you really believe that Prince should have left 'Adore' in the
vault and put 'Crucial' on Sign O The Times instead? Or left
'Darling Nikki' and 'The Beautiful Ones' in the vault in favor of
'G-Spot' and 'Electric Intercourse'? 'Moonbeam Levels' vs 'Free',
'Acknowledge Me' vs 'P Control'... the list goes on.

Of course there are songs like 'All My Dreams' that just didn't
fit on any album. It didn't quite work in the context of Parade,
and once The Revolution split, releasing Dream Factory wasn't
really a viable option, so it simply fell by the wayside (and it
certainly wouldn't have sounded right on Sign O The Times).
The same goes for 'Strays Of The World' which didn't really
fit into the context of Come or The Gold Experience.

So I for one trust Prince's judgement on these issues. Of course
there are a few instances where I personally think he made a
bad choice, but they are very few and far between. I think the
only realistic outlet for most of this material would be a
collectors box set (or maybe several in Prince's case) set out
in chronological order, with extensive liner notes showing the
context of each song. Now that would be interesting.

BorisFishpaw said:

, as always.