In the end, there are some fans out there have been frustrated with Prince's inability to reclaim the pop throne that they want to give Wendy and Lisa more credit for things than they probably deserve. Yeah, they were a little influential and made good band members, but damn, it's not like Prince owes all of his success because of them.

W&L were very good at doing what they are very good at doing--"fleshing" a song out with full orchestration, because they had formal training in classical composition and introduced all kinds of different chord formations to Prince, who was self-taught.

Prince's compositions are more instinctual, more from the gut, more raw and edgy (best exemplified from "Dirty Mind" to "1999")... while theirs were more studied, patient, and spacious. They know how to fill space with sounds that evoke certain emotions (or "colors" as Prince repeatedly said to describe their contributions).

But without Prince's funk, they work best making scores for TV shows and films... basically taking one musical idea and fleshing it out in an infinite number of ways, with different instruments, chord inversions (3, 5, and 7, etc.). Listen to the score of "Dangerous Minds," it is "This is the Life" (from Honeymoon Express) played over and over again in different ways with different instruments throughout the whole film. That's what they are good at.

They may have brought him the skies but he brought them the funk the ground their musical meanderings.
.
[This message was edited Mon Oct 6 20:08:53 PDT 2003 by NuPwrSoul]

Prince: 90

W&L: 10

rdhull said:

Since this is about the Revolution... as an extended member, Bobby Z's brother David Rivkin ("David Z") (they were brothers right?) was a pretty good arranger and had a good sense of rhythm... he arranged "Kiss," as well as co-produced The Family and Jill Jones (I dont have the CDs in front of me for checking the full liner notes); and had a hand in Mazarati as well. He also worked on Jody Watley's debut solo project that Andre Cymone produced/wrote; as well as Elisa Florilio (sp?) which Prince contributed to.

I've never questioned the "pre" Revolution material, but the post stuff wouldn't even appear on my top 20 except for the songs that he wrote about Susannah.

EverlastingNow said:

come on : almost every song on SOTT, Dance On, Positivity, Alphabet St., When2RinLove, Le Grind,Supercalifra..,Vicky Waiting, Good Love, Joy in Rep, Elephants and Flowers, Release It, Love Machine, We Can Funk, Question of U, Gett Off,Gansta Glam, Clokin the Jizz,Violet the Organ Grinder Insatiable, Strollin, Diamonds and Pearls, Willing and Able, Damn U,2 the 9's, And God Created Woman, Continental, Blue Light, Sexy MF The mOst Beautiful Girl, Peach, Space, Come, Papa, Endorphin Machine, I Hate U, Shy, SHH, Dolphin, Loose, Big Fun, Mad Sex, Wasted Kisses, Beautiful Strange, White Mansion, Damned If I Do, Joint 2 Joint, Soul Santuary, Emale, The Light/Iwill, Had U, Chaos and Dis, Da Bang,Ripopgodazippa,2morrow, 18& Over, Poom Poom, Calhoun Square,The Truth LP, Tangerine,Silly Game, So Far So Pleased, The entire Rainbow Children (including the Voice) I'm tired...Good Nite

Supernova said:

You're kidding with this crap right? It's not really a rumour when Wendy and Lisa have actually said in interviews what they contributed to the song. But I also realize that only Prince's side of the story is enough for some as well.

And can you really base the Purple Rain fan debate by the Org alone?

But you would have to be a better judge of that having 9 thousand posts and all.

In the end, there are some fans out there have been frustrated with Prince's inability to reclaim the pop throne that they want to give Wendy and Lisa more credit for things than they probably deserve. Yeah, they were a little influential and made good band members, but damn, it's not like Prince owes all of his success because of them.

I'm sorry, but when you see the Purple Rain tour, the America video, the Sheila E. Romance 1600 live video where The Revolution came on at the end to play A Love Bizzarre, and then you hear the music that he put out (and the stuff e didn't) during that period in his life, you can't deny that Prince's music was on a higher level than it has been with bands such as the NPG. The Revolution could perform every type of style, whether it be funk, pop, rock, jazz, etc etc. The later incarnations of his bands focussed way to much on "the funk" imho.

Though I do agree that the Lovesexy band was awesome too. It's a very close run thing between those two bands, but I'd still have to say The Revolution, as they're influence was felt for longer and on more albums, oh and the fact that we're still talking about them all these years after they split!

rdhull said:

Since this is about the Revolution... as an extended member, Bobby Z's brother David Rivkin ("David Z") (they were brothers right?) was a pretty good arranger and had a good sense of rhythm... he arranged "Kiss," as well as co-produced The Family and Jill Jones (I dont have the CDs in front of me for checking the full liner notes); and had a hand in Mazarati as well. He also worked on Jody Watley's debut solo project that Andre Cymone produced/wrote; as well as Elisa Florilio (sp?) which Prince contributed to.

NuPwrSoul said:

he (David Z) also produced Buddy Guy's "Heavy Love" cd...




grr... i'm having bad luck with the images today...
[This message was edited Mon Oct 6 21:26:19 PDT 2003 by EllisDee]

EllisDee said:

wtf is BUddy thinkig-smoking doing that cd cover?

furthermore,

as much as i loved the Revolution, they really were his worst live band

the band that pre-dated the revolution (with andre cymone & dez dickerson) killed the revolution on the stage

EllisDee said:

Ellis sai d "furthermore" lol

man..ever hear them sing ? lol lawdy miss clawdy! They were studio folk lol caue they sound like shit on ice live on the mic etc..

EllisDee said:

Ellis sai d "furthermore" lol




man..ever hear them sing ? lol lawdy miss clawdy! They were studio folk lol caue they sound like shit on ice live on the mic etc..



Now that right there..is the shit..the jam..the myth..what it was really all about..before most of the boolshet...Andre, Dez, Bobby, Prince and Lisa forever!..foeva? foeva-eva?..Yeth!

rdhull said:

It must be the avatar.

rdhull said:

It must be the avatar.

.

lmas said:

Oh we all know Everlastin is full of it lol..he's only sticking up for "family"

EverlastingNow said:

come on : almost every song on SOTT, Dance On, Positivity, Alphabet St., When2RinLove, Le Grind,Supercalifra..,Vicky Waiting, Good Love, Joy in Rep, Elephants and Flowers, Release It, Love Machine, We Can Funk, Question of U, Gett Off,Gansta Glam, Clokin the Jizz,Violet the Organ Grinder Insatiable, Strollin, Diamonds and Pearls, Willing and Able, Damn U,2 the 9's, And God Created Woman, Continental, Blue Light, Sexy MF The mOst Beautiful Girl, Peach, Space, Come, Papa, Endorphin Machine, I Hate U, Shy, SHH, Dolphin, Loose, Big Fun, Mad Sex, Wasted Kisses, Beautiful Strange, White Mansion, Damned If I Do, Joint 2 Joint, Soul Santuary, Emale, The Light/Iwill, Had U, Chaos and Dis, Da Bang,Ripopgodazippa,2morrow, 18& Over, Poom Poom, Calhoun Square,The Truth LP, Tangerine,Silly Game, So Far So Pleased, The entire Rainbow Children (including the Voice) I'm tired...Good Nite

rdhull said:

Awww...did wittle rdhull have to scrape the little well in his head for THAT??? And as far as sticking up for "family" if that's what you think you must fall down A LOT!

W&L were very good at doing what they are very good at doing--"fleshing" a song out with full orchestration, because they had formal training in classical composition and introduced all kinds of different chord formations to Prince, who was self-taught.

Prince's compositions are more instinctual, more from the gut, more raw and edgy (best exemplified from "Dirty Mind" to "1999")... while theirs were more studied, patient, and spacious. They know how to fill space with sounds that evoke certain emotions (or "colors" as Prince repeatedly said to describe their contributions).

But without Prince's funk, they work best making scores for TV shows and films... basically taking one musical idea and fleshing it out in an infinite number of ways, with different instruments, chord inversions (3, 5, and 7, etc.). Listen to the score of "Dangerous Minds," it is "This is the Life" (from Honeymoon Express) played over and over again in different ways with different instruments throughout the whole film. That's what they are good at.

They may have brought him the skies but he brought them the funk to ground their musical meanderings.
.
[This message was edited Mon Oct 6 20:09:28 PDT 2003 by NuPwrSoul]

NuPwrSoul said:

One musical idea? C'mon. I am a musician, and I've studied music my whole life and Wendy and Lisa are amazing at getting the artist to reach deeper and take more chances with their sound. And the funniest part about this old debate is that even Prince gives them props for being able to play color. And if you haven't heard the albums they helped produce for Seal, Doyle Bramhall, Neil Finn or Me'Shel please don't comment on Wendy and Lisa's abilities strictly off of what they did with Prince.

In the end, there are some fans out there have been frustrated with Prince's inability to reclaim the pop throne that they want to give Wendy and Lisa more credit for things than they probably deserve. Yeah, they were a little influential and made good band members, but damn, it's not like Prince owes all of his success because of them.

EverlastingNow said:

I was talking specifically about their work on "Dangerous Minds" score.

Of course they have done amazing work with others. They have always been great collaborating artists. I have simply not been impressed with them as stand alone performers.

EllisDee said:

Ellis sai d "furthermore" lol




man..ever hear them sing ? lol lawdy miss clawdy! They were studio folk lol caue they sound like shit on ice live on the mic etc..



Now that right there..is the shit..the jam..the myth..what it was really all about..before most of the boolshet...Andre, Dez, Bobby, Prince and Lisa forever!..foeva? foeva-eva?..Yeth!

NuPwrSoul said:

And I totally respect your own opinion because it sucks when someone tries to force feed you there own tastes.
[This message was edited Mon Oct 6 22:13:29 PDT 2003 by EverlastingNow]