I was thinking about Prince's signature percussion sounds.I was considering which I feel has been the most imoportant andrhythm propelling.I thought of the thick snare that are doubled with toms,the infamous "kuh" sound,the flat kick drum sound,th inventive high hats,especially,the 1999 album sounds,and ,of course,th hand clap.

The "kuh" is so original and the bomb,but the handclaps are the most important and ear-catching.He has used themto a level no other artist has.Some are super blatant and to the fore and some are hidden in the mix.Listen in your earphones.This man used to be rhythm and percussion king.Evn in ONA LIVE and the song,"1+1+1=3" he uses them (it may not actually be the Linn)like he did on 1999 and dirty mind where it's like a pimp slap from Moe Howard.

All in all, they (the sounds) are fantastic.I continue with my long love affair with Linn.

rockwilder said:

Are you talking about the rim shot?

Is that you RD?

http://www.prince.org/msg...&tid=37162

Supernova said:

The infamous PaH! 2 me.

I'd say the best Linn Drum i ever heard was "The Dance Electric"

2nd best was "Screams Of Passion"

then i'd guess would be "When Doves Cry"

notable:

777 9311
Somethin In The Water
Wonderful Ass

paisleypark4 said:

Come on now, that doesn't exactly answer my question.

LittlePill said:

Supernova said:

i did answer ur question. i gave the best linn drum sounds i ever heard.

paisleypark4 said:

Nevermind. That wasn't my question.

Ahh, my baby, she's the centerpiece of my drum setup studio.



There's been so many threads about the Linn, I've posted some details.

You have to actually use one to understand how the beats are created.

Here are some discoveries:

The machine is relentless and simple to use at the same time. The timing saves you time and let's you concentrate on the next idea.

Using a sampler or software is NOT the same. Any song that's used Reason Redrum or Acid or whatever, does NOT capture the essense of that machine.

The gassy sound you hear on Sex Shooter and She's Always In My Hair is the hihat with the knob that controls the decay of the hihat turned all the way to open. Then it's processed with effects.

Little Red Corvette has a shaker augmenting the open hihat effect and there is a very low rim shot in there right before it.

The "Kuh" is the rimshot, you actually have to be very precise to get that tone at times. Too low and it sounds too Jesse Johnson, too hi and it sounds stock.

Prince used a really modified version of the regular LM-1. He showed it off in Keyboard I believe in a '99 issue. He has knobs and switches on the sides.

I asked one of the repair guys and side engineers that helped Roger Linn, his name is Bruce Forat and he said that you can even add MIDI capabilites to it.

He offered to add a second row of alternate sounds with whatever sound I sampled or wanted. He just adds a switch and bam.

I think the LM-2 is triggerable but I forget.

If you used the LM-1 at the Celebration and really created a beat, you would of learned or gotten a pretty good idea how Prince created some of his classics.

I think he actually programmed patterns into a song with choruses and breaks and so forth and fingered in basic fills. Little Corvette was probably done in that manner. So it acted like a foundation for songs.

I think the Linn had a flair and sound that MIDI instruments could not capture.

My favorite song with the Linn is the released Strange Relationship, The Camille version. I would LOVE to hear the rest of that song, the fade at the end the rimshot is ALL over the place! I love it!

On Rave Un2, I don't think the engineer, Hans Blams or something could not figure out how to handle or set the machine up. And Kirky J, well, he's a good drummer, and he can program. But it's always better when Prince does it.

You can hear his skills on that album in Winding Road, there's this real funky break and you can hear the Rim Shot on there if you listen carefully.

777-9311 is probably the best of them all, second is Ballad Of Dorothy...on 777, it's really trick to figure out how the roll was done. The Linn is really dry and probably just eq'd a tad. On Dorothy, the Linn is also really dry.

One last thing, when creating beats on the Linn sometimes you actually mess up, but since the timing is so great, it's a serendipitous experience, your error can be an awesome idea!

FlyingCloudPassenger said:

awesum man!
My dumb self feel stoopid for thinkin i just cant do it...its just i dont have the faintest of same instrumntation. I just sample from the cd's and records of the snare. No wonder y i couldnt get that "tube" sound that he captured in "She's Always In My Hair" & "Love Bizarre".

paisleypark4 said:

Tube sound? You must be talking about the "phaser" effect on the hi hat channel.

On the back of the Linns there were quarter inch outs for each drum track. So the snare would be out to the main board, to a track on the main mixer board with a basic reverb, plate etc., then the hihat channel would be out to another track at the mixer and that one would have a different effect. I'm sure they passed them through a lot of rack effects and stuff, but that would be the idea.

Listen to Good Love, that's the LM-1, the snare has a gated or reflective reverb. It's like the sound it extended to a point. Then the tamborine here and there are left somewhat dry. Then Prince added the clap, and gave it a huge big cathedral like reverb for effect! I always loved the sonics of that and Cool Love.

I realize that after Susan Rogers explanation of the over saturation of certain drum sounds on songs like IF I Was YOur Girlfriend that that really cool and expressive sound you hear at the beginning was a tom or something.

The sound I'm talking about also is a prominent bass like growling sound you hear in Hot Thing and Forever In My Life. The live movie gives it away, because a LM-1 tom can be heard in the live mix.

SO maybe he left it dry for that. But I think now that it was a really processed tom drum...I make discoveries here in there that make me go "oooh yeah...hm!"

Sorry to get all detailed but, it's really fun to discover things that had always fascinated me. They don't take away the mystery but rather I learn from them.

Great information. Great sound!

Fantastic informative posts FlyingCloud, thank you

Great info, FCP!

I'm having a lot of fun with the Linn bank on Steinbergs b.box right now!

Thank you for the great responses!!I have always been fascinated with his world of sounds and how he achieved them.Very informative!

this topic is great. did prince use the oberheim for erotic city? if so, what effect is use on the synth when him and sheila being to sing, "if we cannot make babies..."?

Tube sound? You must be talking about the "phaser" effect on the hi hat channel.

On the back of the Linns there were quarter inch outs for each drum track. So the snare would be out to the main board, to a track on the main mixer board with a basic reverb, plate etc., then the hihat channel would be out to another track at the mixer and that one would have a different effect. I'm sure they passed them through a lot of rack effects and stuff, but that would be the idea.

Listen to Good Love, that's the LM-1, the snare has a gated or reflective reverb. It's like the sound it extended to a point. Then the tamborine here and there are left somewhat dry. Then Prince added the clap, and gave it a huge big cathedral like reverb for effect! I always loved the sonics of that and Cool Love.

I realize that after Susan Rogers explanation of the over saturation of certain drum sounds on songs like IF I Was YOur Girlfriend that that really cool and expressive sound you hear at the beginning was a tom or something.

The sound I'm talking about also is a prominent bass like growling sound you hear in Hot Thing and Forever In My Life. The live movie gives it away, because a LM-1 tom can be heard in the live mix.

SO maybe he left it dry for that. But I think now that it was a really processed tom drum...I make discoveries here in there that make me go "oooh yeah...hm!"

Sorry to get all detailed but, it's really fun to discover things that had always fascinated me. They don't take away the mystery but rather I learn from them.[/quote]


daym i wish i had this thing!!! I was surprised 2 hear the effect on the pop life and 1+1+1 =3 on the aladdin dvd.

daym i wish i had that thing! I just gotta use the samples and put reverb and phasers on them and c what i can get.

I have only one song i named :Malt Likka" which is just a jam of Linn Drum samples over phasers & choruses.

Ima go 2 it now and make another and c..

u so coo man!

what gives the bass drum that big empty hallway effect, like the one on beautiful ones?

camille2002 said:

Hmmm, again, it's a big reverb, on the kick channel. Tuned also a little high. Snares got it too, tuned kind of low. Then the rimshot has a phaser or other effect. The toms have another effect but you'll have to discover those on your own!

Susan gave away most of the secrets if you will, she mentions how they used all kinds of effects.

I imagine he sprinkled effects on synths as well.

The Girl Crying Track in the Purple Rain scene is also one of my favorites, got to get the DVD and emulate that one. I've figured out Dorothy, When Doves and HouseQuake. As with anything when you copy, you learn.

Remember there were two main Linns he used in the 80's, the LM-1 and the LM-2 (LinnDrumm), the LM-2 he used on Erotic City, Love Bizzare and on many Sheila E songs.

The machine is so versatile and gave Prince mileage. Other artist used it also.

I think the best non-Prince songs are many George Micheal did, like on Faith, George used the LM-2 for almost all the songs. He did some great stuff, stand outs are Hand To Mouth, Hard Day and of course Faith. He tweaked them alot too.

Don Henley's Sunset Grill is a beautiful all time favorite songs and he used the LM-2. Which although dated sounding to an extent, still sounds powerful and lush. Boys of summer he used LM-2 also.

Genesis did a few things with the LM-1, listen to Invisible Touch, and you'll hear a 1999 like rimshot thing going on.

Joe Walsh was one of the first purchasers of that machine, since Roger Linn was in Burbank California selling his wares to musicians who could afford it. Joe did quite a few songs with it, "I Love Big T*ts" was one! Pure Prince dry drum sound!

The Linn LM-1 cost big money when it came out. And only about a 500 or a thousand or something like were made. So big star could purchase them.

Georgio, remember him, used the LM-2.

Rod Stewarts "Young Turks" has it but only the hihat (tuned really high), snare (tuned low like on Prince's Kiss), and a dry kick, no clap or rimshot. That's why it has that snappy feel to it and still make your body move!

What a drum machine!

Glad ya'lls like my info! We can go on and on, maybe we can start a thread with all the songs that feature the Linn!

Just listening to the Unreleased version of Erotic City, I don't kknow what synth that is, but the LM-2 has a cool phaser thing happening towards the end on the hihat, like he started playing it live as they were recording, closed high hat with big decay.

It brings the energy of the song up and Funks like crazy! Seems like he would add that hihat at times to vary the beat and give it an organic feel.

I think he messed with the Aux's and opened the effects more here and there!

And on ocassion the clap was given a huge reverb and then brought back down, like on Love Bizarre. I've heard that idea from another artist before him, but I forget.

Oh I just remembered Starfish and Coffee, I figured out the snare effect! It's a kicker! But I'll leave it at that, certain things are best kept mysterious!




.:.
[This message was edited Thu Sep 18 11:50:01 PDT 2003 by FlyingCloudPassenger]

FlyingCloudPassenger said:

At last. Someone who knows drums in this forum. Thank you.


£
[This message was edited Thu Sep 18 12:07:15 PDT 2003 by Supernova]

paisleypark4 said:

Oh GOD yeah!

Supernova said:

Thanks! I'm a drummer and always was fascinated by the sounds too! The one I'm still trying to figure out are those Parade era snare effects. Its an effect but I'm getting closer!

In the orgNote sent Thu Sep 18, bananacologne asked:


Yeah! Silicone had Linn sounds mixed in with modern drum machine or sounds. I'm not sure though if it was the LM-1 actually providing the actual sound or if was a loop or a sampler through modern equipment...we'd have to hear it closely again!

I may do a web page with all the infor on the Linn one day. But in the meantime I'm building an all electronic drum set inspired by Bobby Z's rigs!

Now I'd love to meet Bobby and ask him a ton of questions!

Dont hold back all the info. Let us know all you know. Ive been trying to figure out those Parade effects, but I dont have a guess. You said that your were close to the Parade effects, what do you have so far?

This is by far my favourite thread in a long time.
What`s missing is one of them machines...
Well...I DO play the lottery.
FlyingCloudPassenger...you have my deepest respect.
Thank you

Cool!

Go ahead, ask away and let's figure out some of these sounds!

Listen carefully to It or If I Was Your Girlfriend...the kick, it has his high-low feel or sound to it.

Hint...there's actually two kick buttons on the LM-1, also the Snare is that way, like light one and a harder one.

The original version of Feel You Up had the quieter softer snare, which made it very mechanical and quirky.





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[This message was edited Fri Sep 19 12:59:08 PDT 2003 by FlyingCloudPassenger]

[This message was edited Fri Sep 19 12:59:30 PDT 2003 by FlyingCloudPassenger]

In the orgNote sent to me Fri Sep 19 Camille2000 said:


Which Linn do you have, again there were two main Prince ones. The LM-1 and tha flat long LinnDrum (LM-2).

If you've got the Linn LM-2, it's not going to work. It's not as versetile than the first one.

Let me know and we'll figure it out. I can explain each track.