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PrintableFor the record, I wasn't trying to beat anybody down over this issue. I apologize if I have come off too aggressively. I do have a passionate opinion on the subject of music. I DO think Prince is a good guitar player. I said that in my first post. As for personal taste, sometimes I prefer Prince to better guitar players. As I said, I'll take Ernie Isley over bettter players any day because of the feel he plays with. I was just trying to interject some truth and logic on the subject and differenciate between what is personal taste and what is accomplished proficiency. Peace, ya'll. Its all good.  | |
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hectim said: Well, like I said: I've only seen/heard him once. Maybe it wasn't his best night. And maybe I didn't give him a fair chance because I love Hampton so much and wanted to hear more of the Kidd. I'll check out some more of his stuff.
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That said, I've been playing guitar pretty fanatically for 17 years now, which means I started out at the height of the pyrotechnic metal virtuoso days, when Malmsteen, Vai and Satriani were the standard. And I've been to (too) many shows just because I wanted to learn from watching a player's fingers. Nowadays, I just go to concerts to enjoy the music and I've found out that the guitarists whose technique I admire aren't always the players whose music I enjoy most. I'm never in awe of Prince's technique but I LOVE to listen to his playing. And as a musician, I'd prefer to grow in musical maturity like he has, rather than strive for impressive technique like I used to as a kid. (Damn I feel old typing this.) BlaqueKnight saidPerhaps you mistook "in awe of" for disinterest? Many guitar players get caught in "study mode" in an attempt to LEARN at TRUE virtuoso's shows. I have seen McFadden with P-Funk AND doing his solo projects. I have a couple of his CDs and believe me, he qualifies as a virtuoso. Maybe the playing was a little over your head? Maybe not your style?[/b][/color] Hey hec, didnt you know? You cant disagree with blaqueKnight and be right | |
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LaMont said:[quote Hey hec, didnt you know? You cant disagree with blaqueKnight and be right[/quote] Damn I wish I had an email addy for the drunk guy who once came up to me after a gig and told me I was a virtuoso! He should get his ass in here and start posting!  | |
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Totally agree with you Blaquenight. The topic was on prince as a virtuoso on guitar, which he is definitely not if we follow the DEFINITION. Virtuoso has more to do with technique than with art. And Prince does not master his instruments like others do.
That does not mean that he's not a virtuoso overall (true, mastering so many instruments with PERSONALITY on each is simply incredible), neither that he's not a genius (which he probably is). That does not mean also that he cannot be your favorite guitar player (actually he is almost mine -but OK, I'm no guitar player-). | |
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DrD said: That does not mean that he's not a virtuoso overall (true, mastering so many instruments with PERSONALITY on each is simply incredible), So many myths. Piano, maybe drums, guitar and bass. 3 maybe 4. Prince can get on pretty much anybody's bandstand playing these, but he bangs around on xylopohone or violin for a largely throwaway track and he's a virtuoso? Don't take much to impress Prince fans, does it? Proficiency on guitar or bass are standard components of any formal music education. Most composing of western music is done here because these instruments can play harmony and melody. You'd be surprised at how many musicans are really excellent pianists. Oh, you said "with PERSONALITY". I can do without most of Prince's, thank you.  test | |
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thebanishedone said: the best years in prince guitar world are 1979,1981-1984
-1988-1993-2000-still going strong. you forgot one year. may as well include '80. | |
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BlaqueKnight said: [color=blue:5f12c45a07:7436ca1899]For the record, I wasn't trying to beat anybody down over this issue. I apologize if I have come off too aggressively. I do have a passionate opinion on the subject of music. I DO think Prince is a good guitar player. I said that in my first post. As for personal taste, sometimes I prefer Prince to better guitar players. As I said, I'll take Ernie Isley over bettter players any day because of the feel he plays with. I was just trying to interject some truth and logic on the subject and differenciate between what is personal taste and what is accomplished proficiency. Peace, ya'll. Its all good.
Is there any room in your world for a gradation between merely "good" and the ethereal "virtuoso" designation that you alone bestow upon guitarists? Maybe I'd be less skeptical of your posts if you allowed that Prince was at least a "great" guitarist among others you admire. "When they tell me 2 walk a straight line, I put on crooked shoes" | |
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Slave2daGroove said: Is he the best, of course not but I've heard musicians play 3 notes with more soul and conviction than all ofthe Steve Vai's of the world.
You got a point. There's so much music that is quite simple from a technical point of view, but genius in its own way. I know some simple melodies that kick ass more than anything. When u hear Prince play Joy In Repitition, Purple Rain, Just My Imagination live... wow man a palette of rich sound texture and emotional and intellectual artistry. Who cares if it's not the most elevated technical guitar playing ever, if that's not very funky soulful playing, then i don't know what is. Prince is a genius, simply for creating his own sound over teh past 25 years and his outstanding qualities as a musician and entertainer. Prince is more than a guitarist, he's a genius artist, dig it. | |
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BlaqueKnight said: thebanishedone said: i find myself pretty much offended ,
when someone say that prince is not a great guitar player. i dare to say a virtuoso... [color=blue:799646826b:9f121a3e15]Uhm, excuse me but were you one of the people helping comprise R.S.'s list? You DEFINATELY have NO CONCEPT of what a VIRTUOSO is if Prince is your definition of a guitar virtuoso. Go pick up a Stanley Jordan record. That's virtuoso. When you're listening to what sounds like 2 or 3 guitar players playing perfectly together - only to find out its one guy playing several parts simultaneously. THAT IS VIRTUOSO. See the problem is so many people who DON'T play guitar feel that their ability to judge what is master-level playing is equal to that of those who DO play and play WELL. Prince has had some great licks and some cool solos, but he ain't playing anything that a guitarist who's been playing for a reasonable length of time CAN'T play. Cats like Vai and Satriani and Wes Montgomery play things that many GOOD guitar players CAN'T play without devoting years of study to their particular style, or at least months. They are guitarists that make guitarists say "Wow! He's great; I suck!" and then go home and practice. Prince ain't sending any DECENT guitar players home in awe because he doesn't play anything awe-inspiring. He's funky. He's got some cool licks. He's good. But virtuoso? HELL NAW! There are classical and flamenco guitar virtuosos who would smoke Prince ten times over on guitar, but most of them would be unknown to 97% of the board because they never wore assless pants or had a music video, yet they are TRUE virtuosos who have devoted great portions of their lives to nothing but PLAYING GUITAR, yet Prince is better than ALL of them. (yeah, right  ) Prince is a good guitarist, but he's not even a virtuoso among POP guitarists. Cats like Eric McFadden (who plays with Funkadelic a lot these days) SMOKE Prince. The difference is, they don't all have a huge fanbase of women who buy up posters, merchandise, etc. Their fanbase is mostly comprised of GUITAR PLAYERS.
Stomping defense line #2 - "Prince is the funkiest guitarist alive". Nope. Depends on who you ask, how much funk you ACTUALLY know and who you listen to. Pick up the Reddings' old albums. The Ohio Players and Cameo both had funk on levels way deeper than Prince. The Brothers Johnson? Funkier. The late great Roger Troutman. Nuff said. Johnny "guitar" Watson. DAYUM! THAT's funky. Rufus. FUNKY! Prince is funky as hell, though. Squashing myth #3 - "Prince plays with more feeling and emotion than any other player in the world" This is completely subjective. Depends on who and what moves you. The same arguement could be made about Kurt Cocaine...I mean Cobain.  I believe each and every one who says this because you are all fans of Prince, admire his music and love what he does. The problem with Prince fans is that you all seem to think that you belong to some secret, exclusive society. WHATEVER. S'Aight. Its cool to dream.
Prince seems to WANT to be known for his guitar playing. His fans seem to want him to be known for whatever he wants to be known for, but bottom line is THERE ARE TOO MANY TRULY GREAT GUITARISTS THAT ARE BETTER THAN PRINCE. It just won't fly with the rest of the world. GET OVER IT. He's got his own sound, though. That's a cool thing. You don't have to be BETTER when you are DIFFERENT. He IS unique; just not the monster that you FANS think he is. On a personal note, I DO think he's better than Clapton. 
copy...print...save "Climb in my fur." | |
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LaMont said: hectim said: Well, like I said: I've only seen/heard him once. Maybe it wasn't his best night. And maybe I didn't give him a fair chance because I love Hampton so much and wanted to hear more of the Kidd. I'll check out some more of his stuff.
That said, I've been playing guitar pretty fanatically for 17 years now, which means I started out at the height of the pyrotechnic metal virtuoso days, when Malmsteen, Vai and Satriani were the standard. And I've been to (too) many shows just because I wanted to learn from watching a player's fingers. Nowadays, I just go to concerts to enjoy the music and I've found out that the guitarists whose technique I admire aren't always the players whose music I enjoy most. I'm never in awe of Prince's technique but I LOVE to listen to his playing. And as a musician, I'd prefer to grow in musical maturity like he has, rather than strive for impressive technique like I used to as a kid. (Damn I feel old typing this.) BlaqueKnight saidPerhaps you mistook "in awe of" for disinterest? Many guitar players get caught in "study mode" in an attempt to LEARN at TRUE virtuoso's shows. I have seen McFadden with P-Funk AND doing his solo projects. I have a couple of his CDs and believe me, he qualifies as a virtuoso. Maybe the playing was a little over your head? Maybe not your style?[/b][/color] Hey hec, didnt you know? You cant disagree with blaqueKnight and be right
pot, meet kettle [This message was edited Wed Sep 17 11:13:26 PDT 2003 by rdhull] "Climb in my fur." | |
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BlaqueKnight said: [color=blue:5f12c45a07:4796ca02e4]For the record, I wasn't trying to beat anybody down over this issue. I apologize if I have come off too aggressively. I do have a passionate opinion on the subject of music. I DO think Prince is a good guitar player. I said that in my first post. As for personal taste, sometimes I prefer Prince to better guitar players. As I said, I'll take Ernie Isley over bettter players any day because of the feel he plays with. I was just trying to interject some truth and logic on the subject and differenciate between what is personal taste and what is accomplished proficiency. Peace, ya'll. Its all good.
ditto -b-knight. it WAS well said. and it is ALL good. we all got a right to express ourselves on this subject,right? prince is PRINCE. and yep...i digs ernie ISLEy myself. he's worth a thread himself,huh? | |
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