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lets close the subject abut prince as a guitar player i find myself pretty much offended ,
when someone say that prince is not a great guitar player. i dare to say a virtuoso. how can anyone say that he isnt among the best guitar players. he plays great rock guitar-(why you wanna treat me so bad,bambi,computer blue...) he can play jazz guitar pretty good(listen to strollin' from one nite alone concerts). he is great on rhythm guitar also. yeah he had some bad times on guitar in the 1997-1999 period. but thats because , it wasnt his preocupation. but these days (from the beggining of 2000) he is really into guitar playing. i think that these days he listens more modern guitar players, (listen to his axe work on n.e.w.s,xpetations,rainbow children ,live concerts) his playing is great,, very fluent,very melodic. very intersting combination of tehniq and emotions. u can say what you want but he have his style of playing,i would always recognise it. he is much better then santana(santana-too derivative) and eric clapton(too lazy) i put him in the toop of guitar world. | |
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I hardly think this will "close" the subject, banished. "Knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring faith. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal" - Carl Sagan | |
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And Rolling Stone don't know the difference between it's head and it's ass. Bunch of college kids.  don't read Rolling Stone no mo'.
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thebanishedone said: he is much better then santana(santana-too derivative)
derivatism flourishes non-stop in the art/music world. everybody got their something from someone else.  edits are derived from makin errors[This message was edited Mon Sep 15 21:12:32 PDT 2003 by Handclapsfingasnapz] | |
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thebanishedone said: i find myself pretty much offended ,
when someone say that prince is not a great guitar player. i dare to say a virtuoso... Uhm, excuse me but were you one of the people helping comprise R.S.'s list? You DEFINATELY have NO CONCEPT of what a VIRTUOSO is if Prince is your definition of a guitar virtuoso. Go pick up a Stanley Jordan record. That's virtuoso. When you're listening to what sounds like 2 or 3 guitar players playing perfectly together - only to find out its one guy playing several parts simultaneously. THAT IS VIRTUOSO. See the problem is so many people who DON'T play guitar feel that their ability to judge what is master-level playing is equal to that of those who DO play and play WELL. Prince has had some great licks and some cool solos, but he ain't playing anything that a guitarist who's been playing for a reasonable length of time CAN'T play. Cats like Vai and Satriani and Wes Montgomery play things that many GOOD guitar players CAN'T play without devoting years of study to their particular style, or at least months. They are guitarists that make guitarists say "Wow! He's great; I suck!" and then go home and practice. Prince ain't sending any DECENT guitar players home in awe because he doesn't play anything awe-inspiring. He's funky. He's got some cool licks. He's good. But virtuoso? HELL NAW! There are classical and flamenco guitar virtuosos who would smoke Prince ten times over on guitar, but most of them would be unknown to 97% of the board because they never wore assless pants or had a music video, yet they are TRUE virtuosos who have devoted great portions of their lives to nothing but PLAYING GUITAR, yet Prince is better than ALL of them. (yeah, right  ) Prince is a good guitarist, but he's not even a virtuoso among POP guitarists. Cats like Eric McFadden (who plays with Funkadelic a lot these days) SMOKE Prince. The difference is, they don't all have a huge fanbase of women who buy up posters, merchandise, etc. Their fanbase is mostly comprised of GUITAR PLAYERS.
Stomping defense line #2 - "Prince is the funkiest guitarist alive". Nope. Depends on who you ask, how much funk you ACTUALLY know and who you listen to. Pick up the Reddings' old albums. The Ohio Players and Cameo both had funk on levels way deeper than Prince. The Brothers Johnson? Funkier. The late great Roger Troutman. Nuff said. Johnny "guitar" Watson. DAYUM! THAT's funky. Rufus. FUNKY! Prince is funky as hell, though. Squashing myth #3 - "Prince plays with more feeling and emotion than any other player in the world" This is completely subjective. Depends on who and what moves you. The same arguement could be made about Kurt Cocaine...I mean Cobain.  I believe each and every one who says this because you are all fans of Prince, admire his music and love what he does. The problem with Prince fans is that you all seem to think that you belong to some secret, exclusive society. WHATEVER. S'Aight. Its cool to dream.
Prince seems to WANT to be known for his guitar playing. His fans seem to want him to be known for whatever he wants to be known for, but bottom line is THERE ARE TOO MANY TRULY GREAT GUITARISTS THAT ARE BETTER THAN PRINCE. It just won't fly with the rest of the world. GET OVER IT. He's got his own sound, though. That's a cool thing. You don't have to be BETTER when you are DIFFERENT. He IS unique; just not the monster that you FANS think he is. On a personal note, I DO think he's better than Clapton. 
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I have to disagree with you on that. Last year I was lucky enough to see P-Funk and Prince both live within a few months. McFadden's soloing really got on my nerves after a while, his technique is good but fairly standard metal fare and imho he doesn't have the soul or conviction that Hampton and Blackbyrd do have. Prince on the other hand played long solos that did keep me interested all the way through.
So when we're discussing what makes a person a virtuoso, I think this is an important point: does the musician in quetion have the ability to captivate an audience with his soloing? In my experience, people like Maceo Parker, Albert Collins and B.B. King, while technically no virtuosos, do/did have that ability. I watched those musicians keep audiences fascinated throughout prolonged solos because of their ability to balance tension and release, melody and showmanship. I've also seen 'real' virtuoso's like Steve Vai and Robben Ford lose the interest of a large part of their audience - the part that didn't play guitar but also fanatical guitarists like myself - during solos. In my experience, Prince definitely has that ability to captivate an audience with a solo, which is very rare and a great joy to witness live. (boy I love these P-as-a-guitarist-threads) BlaqueKnight said: Cats like Eric McFadden (who plays with Funkadelic a lot these days) SMOKE Prince.
bad english edit [This message was edited Tue Sep 16 0:32:20 PDT 2003 by hectim] | |
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hectim said: I have to disagree with you on that. Last year I was lucky enough to see P-Funk and Prince both live within a few months. McFadden's soloing really got on my nerves after a while, his technique is good but fairly standard metal fare and imho he doesn't have the soul or conviction that Hampton and Blackbyrd do have. Prince on the other hand played long solos that did keep me interested all the way through.
So when we're discussing what makes a person a virtuoso, I think this is an important point: does the musician in quetion have the ability to captivate an audience with his soloing? In my experience, people like Maceo Parker, Albert Collins and B.B. King, while technically no virtuosos, do/did have that ability. I watched those musicians keep audiences fascinated throughout prolonged solos because of their ability to balance tension and release, melody and showmanship. I've also seen 'real' virtuoso's like Steve Vai and Robben Ford lose the interest of a large part of their audience - the part that didn't play guitar but also fanatical guitarists like myself - during solos. In my experience, Prince definitely has that ability to captivate an audience with a solo, which is very rare and a great joy to witness live. (boy I love these P-as-a-guitarist-threads) Perhaps you mistook "in awe of" for disinterest? Many guitar players get caught in "study mode" in an attempt to LEARN at TRUE virtuoso's shows. I have seen McFadden with P-Funk AND doing his solo projects. I have a couple of his CDs and believe me, he qualifies as a virtuoso. Maybe the playing was a little over your head? Maybe not your style? STILL, he can play things that many guitarists CAN'T play. Prince does not. Prince's audience is comprised of a much larger pop content. The pop crowd's reaction in general is not a good measure upon which to judge technical proficiency. I have seen Prince quite a few times and have never been blown away by his guitar playing alone. He tends to stick to standard blues-rock riffs but throws in a flat 6th here and there for flavor. | |
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Well, like I said: I've only seen/heard him once. Maybe it wasn't his best night. And maybe I didn't give him a fair chance because I love Hampton so much and wanted to hear more of the Kidd. I'll check out some more of his stuff.
That said, I've been playing guitar pretty fanatically for 17 years now, which means I started out at the height of the pyrotechnic metal virtuoso days, when Malmsteen, Vai and Satriani were the standard. And I've been to (too) many shows just because I wanted to learn from watching a player's fingers. Nowadays, I just go to concerts to enjoy the music and I've found out that the guitarists whose technique I admire aren't always the players whose music I enjoy most. I'm never in awe of Prince's technique but I LOVE to listen to his playing. And as a musician, I'd prefer to grow in musical maturity like he has, rather than strive for impressive technique like I used to as a kid. (Damn I feel old typing this.) BlaqueKnight saidPerhaps you mistook "in awe of" for disinterest? Many guitar players get caught in "study mode" in an attempt to LEARN at TRUE virtuoso's shows. I have seen McFadden with P-Funk AND doing his solo projects. I have a couple of his CDs and believe me, he qualifies as a virtuoso. Maybe the playing was a little over your head? Maybe not your style?[/b][/color][/quote] | |
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The answer to the question whether Prince is a guitar virtuoso or not depends on your definition of a virtuoso. Is it someone who can play things that other guitar players cannot (technical skills), is it the emotion one can express while playing, or is it the way he plays. In this last regard I truly think Prince is a virtuoso, because I've seldom seen someone playing the guitar as if it was an extension of (a particular part of) his body. | |
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definition of virtuoso-someone who can easy play music thats hard to play.prince is that.
black qnight i bet i can tear your ass on guitar,keys and bass. i dare you to except the chalenge. we can both send our recordings and our fellow orgers will b the judges. | |
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akashic said: And Rolling Stone don't know the difference between it's head and it's ass. Bunch of college kids.
don't read Rolling Stone no mo'.
its just their opinions. doesn't matter what they think! | |
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phunkadelic said: The answer to the question whether Prince is a guitar virtuoso or not depends on your definition of a virtuoso. Is it someone who can play things that other guitar players cannot (technical skills), is it the emotion one can express while playing, or is it the way he plays. In this last regard I truly think Prince is a virtuoso, because I've seldom seen someone playing the guitar as if it was an extension of (a particular part of) his body.
Playing great is not about "looking cool" while you play. A virtuoso is someone who plays above and beyond at MASTER level. That AIN'T Prince. Like I said, any decent guitarist can play what Prince plays. I give him props for have more of a unique TONE than anything else, but his playing itself is nothing amazing. I understand what ya'll are saying, I just disagree wholeheartedly. On a personal note, I'd rather see Ernie Isley play than Steve Vai because of my personal musical taste, but I'm not gonna sit here and say that Ernie & Steve are on the same playing level. You guys need to learn to give credit where credit is due and to not over-exaggerate Prince so much. What am I saying? This is Prince.org! Prince is god here. Or at least a demi-god. | |
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thebanishedone said: definition of virtuoso-someone who can easy play music thats hard to play.prince is that.
black qnight i bet i can tear your ass on guitar,keys and bass. i dare you to except the chalenge. we can both send our recordings and our fellow orgers will b the judges. what is this, medieval times??  | |
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Handclapsfingasnapz said: thebanishedone said: definition of virtuoso-someone who can easy play music thats hard to play.prince is that.
black qnight i bet i can tear your ass on guitar,keys and bass. i dare you to except the chalenge. we can both send our recordings and our fellow orgers will b the judges. what is this, medieval times?? Ooh, Banished Ones challenging Black Knights to a musical duel! Where's my popcorn? Wait, did they have popcorn in medieval times?  The Normal Whores Club | |
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B-knight as always YOU know how to state yo points!
mannn...well your points are pretty good. yep stanley jordan is DAMn good. i got some of his stuff. (his always and forever and Bolero cuts are TERRIFYING. MY TAKE IS this: virtuosos are a rare breed on any instruments. very few people earn the right to BE called this,.(instead of using virtouso i'll use MASTER) andres segovia...a master. no argument. django rheinhart-master. t-bone walker-master. jim hendrix- master these 4 guitarists set the standards and ther groundwork for everyone who came after them. man i've sen a zillion guitarists live and played with some too. its a subjective thang y'all. ask any guitar playing fan/frak and you'll always get a 1,000 different opinions about who's good and who's SHIT. and everybody might not be wrong. see...people pick what they like PLAIn and simple. most of the guitarists on ROlling Stone's 100 fave list were pretty deserving...however i knew the list was flawed because the guys choosing aren't very versatile critics. i read their work before and knew Up front who they would pick anyway. some guys who made the list aren't really even close to being virtuosos/master...pete townsend of the WHO... pete's style is flashy and fits the WHO perfectly but no way is he 100 greatest guiatrist material. the guy (mcfadden) you mentioned B-knight probbaly kicks PETE's ass but he isn't well known enough to the masses. i'm not dissing pete t what i'm saying is I know he ain't a master. but he's on the list cuz they KNOW him. one of my faves made the list the late goerge harrison... now i dig george a lot...but he never saw himself as outstanding. he said...i play what i'm sipposed to play no wasted notes...my job in the BEATLES was to keep shit together. george always got a cracked on by the same critics who put him in this time because he didn't try to OVER-play and always stuck wihtin the framework of the song. he got in the 100 simply because he died and they are looking at him differently now. prince is damn good. whether he's the best guitarist ever heard is not mY point. all i know is if some of those other clowns they picked are on the list prince should be TOO. he's way better than Pete t. easily. and what about ernie isley...jesse johnson...curtis mayfield? (for you guitar people who don't KNOw curtis created his own style of playing guitar. he tuned his axe to f sharp (the black keys on the piano) and taught himself a differentl way to play. thats' a master for you. he develops his own way of playing. ever guitar cat in chicago in the 60's was trying to play like hIM. true story y'all. what i'm saying is GUitar is a subjective subject. some people like different people. that's how it is. b-knights points are SOLid. but so is everyone else's. too. personally when i chose guitar player si pick people who have passion and soul. if they can play more than one genre i give them bonus points. i don't care about people being MASTERS. cuz those guys only come around every now and then. here's my faves based on my knowledge of music and my ears. (my ears don't lie to me...cool ass playing is cool ass playing to me) my lists(guys who can play for me forever) stanley jordan...barney kessell,joe pass...ernie isley,prince,eddei hazel,mike hampton,lindsay buckingham jimmy nolen,curtis mayfield,liona boyd ( a classical master and a lady,too!) wes montgomery...stevie ray vaughn,keith richards (he can play any style well) andres segovia, t-bone walker,steve cropper,jesse johnson,jim hendrix,albert king,mickey baker (check his jazz shit out) buddy guy, david gilmour,george harrison,jeff beck,george benson, eric gale...kenny burrell..earl klugh... just a few... charles | |
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thebanishedone said: definition of virtuoso-someone who can easy play music thats hard to play.prince is that.
black qnight i bet i can tear your ass on guitar,keys and bass. i dare you to except the chalenge. we can both send our recordings and our fellow orgers will b the judges. Aw, don't get mad - get educated. I suggest you start with Wes Montgomery and move on to Vai, Jordan and Satriani. Prince is no virtuoso. And if your definition of virtuoso is Prince, then obviously neither are you. A musical battle is pointless. When its all said and done, Prince STILL won't be a virtuoso HA! HA HA! "You wanna battle me, you better bring an army!"  [This message was edited Tue Sep 16 10:24:56 PDT 2003 by BlaqueKnight] | |
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DAMN FINE POST, YoungCa! Excellent points.  | |
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BlaqueKnight said: thebanishedone said: definition of virtuoso-someone who can easy play music thats hard to play.prince is that.
black qnight i bet i can tear your ass on guitar,keys and bass. i dare you to except the chalenge. we can both send our recordings and our fellow orgers will b the judges. [color=blue:6b0aa336b2:b4091f42a2]Aw, don't get mad - get educated. I suggest you start with Wes Montgomery and move on to Vai, Jordan and Satriani. Prince is no virtuoso. And if your definition of virtuoso is Prince, then obviously neither are you. A musical battle is pointless. When its all said and done, Prince STILL won't be a virtuoso HA! HA HA! "You wanna battle me, you better bring an army!"[img] hey b-knight...who's your main guitar people and from one ex-guitar player to one..what kinda equipment you got? youngca... http://users.telenet.be/e....gif[/img] [This message was edited Tue Sep 16 10:24:56 PDT 2003 by BlaqueKnight] | |
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For the record here's the definition.
virtuoso adj : having or revealing supreme mastery or skill; "a consummate artist"; "consummate skill"; "a masterful speaker"; "masterful technique"; "a masterly performance of the sonata"; "a virtuoso performance" [syn: consummate, masterful, masterly, virtuoso(a)] n : someone who is very highly skilled As a guitarist, I can say that Prince is a "masterful speaker" of the instrument. Is he the best, of course not but I've heard musicians play 3 notes with more soul and conviction than all ofthe Steve Vai's of the world. It's art people, stop judging and appreciate it for what it is. | |
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Slave2daGroove said: For the record here's the definition.
virtuoso adj : having or revealing supreme mastery or skill; "a consummate artist"; "consummate skill"; "a masterful speaker"; "masterful technique"; "a masterly performance of the sonata"; "a virtuoso performance" [syn: consummate, masterful, masterly, virtuoso(a)] n : someone who is very highly skilled As a guitarist, I can say that Prince is a "masterful speaker" of the instrument. Is he the best, of course not but I've heard musicians play 3 notes with more soul and conviction than all ofthe Steve Vai's of the world. Then riddle me this: Why is it that only .orgers and a few pop fan mags call prince "virtuoso"? Prince is no virtuoso. Greatest of the great? Hell no. The term Virtuoso is reserved for people who have excelled far greater than Prince on guitar. You so-called experts are showing your ignorance of the instrument and the knowlege of those who have achieved greatness on it. It's art people, stop judging and appreciate it for what it is.
Art is made to be judged...and appreciated. [This message was edited Tue Sep 16 10:54:24 PDT 2003 by BlaqueKnight] | |
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BlaqueKnight said: Slave2daGroove said: For the record here's the definition.
virtuoso adj : having or revealing supreme mastery or skill; "a consummate artist"; "consummate skill"; "a masterful speaker"; "masterful technique"; "a masterly performance of the sonata"; "a virtuoso performance" [syn: consummate, masterful, masterly, virtuoso(a)] n : someone who is very highly skilled As a guitarist, I can say that Prince is a "masterful speaker" of the instrument. Is he the best, of course not but I've heard musicians play 3 notes with more soul and conviction than all ofthe Steve Vai's of the world. I agree that Prince isn't the greatest guitarist ever. However, you need to quit stating it as a fact. Like Youngca said, it's all subjective. Y'all are losing perspective. It's like arguing whether Joe Montana was the greatest passer. He was no Dan Marino but who would you rather give the ball to at crunch time-- or any other time for that matter. Guitar is just one instrument and unless you're talking about an instrumental jam it's all about playing to the song. Who needs all of that superfluous guitar wizardry unless it's adding to the song (see the end of Family Mame). [color=blue:10e1f97a97:ef63a5a283]Then riddle me this: Why is it that only .orgers and a few pop fan mags call prince "virtuoso"? Prince is no virtuoso. Greatest of the great? Hell no. The term Virtuoso is reserved for people who have excelled far greater than Prince on guitar. You so-called experts are showing your ignorance of the instrument and the knowlege of those who have achieved greatness on it. It's art people, stop judging and appreciate it for what it is.
Art is made to be judged...and appreciated. [This message was edited Tue Sep 16 10:54:24 PDT 2003 by BlaqueKnight] |
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youngca said: B-knight as always YOU know how to state yo points!
mannn...well your points are pretty good. yep stanley jordan is DAMn good. i got some of his stuff. (his always and forever and Bolero cuts are TERRIFYING. MY TAKE IS this: virtuosos are a rare breed on any instruments. very few people earn the right to BE called this,.(instead of using virtouso i'll use MASTER) andres segovia...a master. no argument. django rheinhart-master. t-bone walker-master. jim hendrix- master these 4 guitarists set the standards and ther groundwork for everyone who came after them.  Subject closed.
man i've sen a zillion guitarists live and played with some too. its a subjective thang y'all. ask any guitar playing fan/frak and you'll always get a 1,000 different opinions about who's good and who's SHIT. and everybody might not be wrong. see...people pick what they like PLAIn and simple. most of the guitarists on ROlling Stone's 100 fave list were pretty deserving...however i knew the list was flawed because the guys choosing aren't very versatile critics. i read their work before and knew Up front who they would pick anyway. some guys who made the list aren't really even close to being virtuosos/master...pete townsend of the WHO... pete's style is flashy and fits the WHO perfectly but no way is he 100 greatest guiatrist material. the guy (mcfadden) you mentioned B-knight probbaly kicks PETE's ass but he isn't well known enough to the masses. i'm not dissing pete t what i'm saying is I know he ain't a master. but he's on the list cuz they KNOW him. one of my faves made the list the late goerge harrison... now i dig george a lot...but he never saw himself as outstanding. he said...i play what i'm sipposed to play no wasted notes...my job in the BEATLES was to keep shit together. george always got a cracked on by the same critics who put him in this time because he didn't try to OVER-play and always stuck wihtin the framework of the song. he got in the 100 simply because he died and they are looking at him differently now. prince is damn good. whether he's the best guitarist ever heard is not mY point. all i know is if some of those other clowns they picked are on the list prince should be TOO. he's way better than Pete t. easily. and what about ernie isley...jesse johnson...curtis mayfield? (for you guitar people who don't KNOw curtis created his own style of playing guitar. he tuned his axe to f sharp (the black keys on the piano) and taught himself a differentl way to play. thats' a master for you. he develops his own way of playing. ever guitar cat in chicago in the 60's was trying to play like hIM. true story y'all. what i'm saying is GUitar is a subjective subject. some people like different people. that's how it is. b-knights points are SOLid. but so is everyone else's. too. personally when i chose guitar player si pick people who have passion and soul. if they can play more than one genre i give them bonus points. i don't care about people being MASTERS. cuz those guys only come around every now and then. here's my faves based on my knowledge of music and my ears. (my ears don't lie to me...cool ass playing is cool ass playing to me) my lists(guys who can play for me forever) stanley jordan...barney kessell,joe pass...ernie isley,prince,eddei hazel,mike hampton,lindsay buckingham jimmy nolen,curtis mayfield,liona boyd ( a classical master and a lady,too!) wes montgomery...stevie ray vaughn,keith richards (he can play any style well) andres segovia, t-bone walker,steve cropper,jesse johnson,jim hendrix,albert king,mickey baker (check his jazz shit out) buddy guy, david gilmour,george harrison,jeff beck,george benson, eric gale...kenny burrell..earl klugh... just a few... charles |
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thebanishedone said:[quote]i find myself pretty much offended ,
when someone say that prince is not a great guitar player. i dare to say a virtuoso. how can anyone say that he isnt among the best guitar players. he plays great rock guitar-(why you wanna treat me so bad,bambi,computer blue...) he can play jazz guitar pretty good(listen to strollin' from one nite alone concerts). he is great on rhythm guitar also. yeah he had some bad times on guitar in the 1997-1999 period. but thats because , it wasnt his preocupation. but these days (from the beggining of 2000) he is really into guitar playing. i think that these days he listens more modern guitar players, (listen to his axe work on n.e.w.s,xpetations,rainbow children ,live concerts) [This message was edited Tue Sep 16 13:20:28 PDT 2003 by NME] | |
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BlaqueKnight said: Slave2daGroove said: For the record here's the definition.
virtuoso adj : having or revealing supreme mastery or skill; "a consummate artist"; "consummate skill"; "a masterful speaker"; "masterful technique"; "a masterly performance of the sonata"; "a virtuoso performance" [syn: consummate, masterful, masterly, virtuoso(a)] n : someone who is very highly skilled As a guitarist, I can say that Prince is a "masterful speaker" of the instrument. Is he the best, of course not but I've heard musicians play 3 notes with more soul and conviction than all ofthe Steve Vai's of the world. [color=blue:10e1f97a97:100d8e2ad7]Then riddle me this: Why is it that only .orgers and a few pop fan mags call prince "virtuoso"? Prince is no virtuoso. Greatest of the great? Hell no. The term Virtuoso is reserved for people who have excelled far greater than Prince on guitar. You so-called experts are showing your ignorance of the instrument and the knowlege of those who have achieved greatness on it. It's art people, stop judging and appreciate it for what it is.
Art is made to be judged...and appreciated. [This message was edited Tue Sep 16 10:54:24 PDT 2003 by BlaqueKnight] I posted a definition of the word, that's all. Never said I was an "expert" or that I know everything. The Org sure has a lot of frustrated people. Here's a thought, rather than debate art, maybe you should show us where you post your music so we can hear your true knowledge of the instrument. Your words just aren't workin for me. | |
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Slave2daGroove said: The Org sure has a lot of frustrated people. Here's a thought, rather than debate art, maybe you should show us where you post your music so we can hear your true knowledge of the instrument. Your words just aren't workin for me. Did you not read the thread? The very nature of the title was posted as a debate. I simply spoke on the subject. Art is not at issue. Prince as a virtuoso guitarist is. It has become fashionable to reduce everything to subjectiveness instead of setting and adhereing to standards. If everyone were a "virtuoso", then the word would have no meaning, thus rendering it useless. Look at the term "genius". According to those that AREN'T, damn near anyone can be a genius in some way. This is not the case for virtuoso. Prince is no virtuoso. He's a good guitarist. Its the freakin' fanatics who strive to convince the world that Prince is the end-all-be-all of music itself that can't just enjoy the music and move on. Its also Prince-Nazis that ruin debates like this. (and I didn't say you are one; actions only speak in those terms so there's no need for a war of words) I've stated my case. I've sited a few examples and STILL no one has refuted my point. As always, this debate is getting tired REAL FAST. So I don't think the "subject about Prince as a guitar player" will ever be closed on here; at least not until some of these orgers learn what a real virtuoso guitarist sounds like. hmpf.
BTW, Me posting music would do nothing for the issue at hand...as if I have some interest in satisfying others' questions of my "knowledge of the instrument." hmpf. [This message was edited Tue Sep 16 14:28:30 PDT 2003 by BlaqueKnight] | |
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Prince is a virtuoso musican.
I dare most of the musicans to sing, play bass, drums, guitar and piano as good as him. It's rare. It's virtuosity IMO because it's difficult even for the masters. | |
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virtuoso players are eddie van halen,stenley jordan,steve vai,satriani,benson.
no i never thought that prince is the begging or the end of the music, yes i know he is a mix of james brown,hendrix ,sly stone and santana ,but like riche blackmore from deep purple ,prince is a virtuoso in his own manner. my chalenge still stands open 4 u. | |
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BlaqueKnight said: [color=blue:2ddb0a60e7:f86418d013] Did you not read the thread? The very nature of the title was posted as a debate. I simply spoke on the subject. Art is not at issue. Prince as a virtuoso guitarist is. It has become fashionable to reduce everything to subjectiveness instead of setting and adhereing to standards. If everyone were a "virtuoso", then the word would have no meaning, thus rendering it useless. Look at the term "genius". According to those that AREN'T, damn near anyone can be a genius in some way. This is not the case for virtuoso. Prince is no virtuoso. He's a good guitarist. Its the freakin' fanatics who strive to convince the world that Prince is the end-all-be-all of music itself that can't just enjoy the music and move on. Its also Prince-Nazis that ruin debates like this. (and I didn't say you are one; actions only speak in those terms so there's no need for a war of words) I've stated my case. I've sited a few examples and STILL no one has refuted my point. As always, this debate is getting tired REAL FAST. So I don't think the "subject about Prince as a guitar player" will ever be closed on here; at least not until some of these orgers learn what a real virtuoso guitarist sounds like. hmpf.
BTW, Me posting music would do nothing for the issue at hand...as if I have some interest in satisfying others' questions of my "knowledge of the instrument." hmpf. [This message was edited Tue Sep 16 14:28:30 PDT 2003 by BlaqueKnight] O.K., O.K., I see your point in it's entirety now and completely agree with you about Prince being the "end-all-be-all" to music. People here sometimes take things to an extreme when it comes to our little purple friend (just for the record, I'm not a Prince Nazi or party affiliate). The banishedone has simply stated that because Prince plays in a diversity of styles, he puts him "in toop of his guitar world". Musically speaking (as far as diversity), Hendrix had diversity, Vai also is pretty diverse (now compared to "Flexable"), Santana is really diverse. Most guitarists are really that diverse even when they play acoustically, Prince is no exception. Banished, your case doesn't really hold water (with Santana alone). BlaqueKnight, check your Org notes. | |
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wow. fascinating exchanges. as i said earlier...guitar
playing is an subjective subject. "masters" are not people who come into the world often. it they were that easy to create...how would we know who was GREAT or not? if anybody thinks Prince is a 'master'. that's cool. b-knight's argument is HIs. he's entitled to it. (especially since he always states his views with eloquece and passion...how can i get my nose outta joint-even if i didn't agree? (haha) check my little history of the subject...earlier. like i said the 'masters/virtuosos aren't exactly EVERy place! if everybody who played Guitar were to place examples of their "music" on this org site...what would that prove? we'd still be debating who's GOOD and who is SHIT. when i played guitar i didn't see myself that good...but i liked what i did...and didn't care about being a 'master". i started very late and was happy to be able to "play well enough to do songs i LOVEd and to play with real GOOD musicians here and there. so what i there were 1,ooo dudes better than ME...WHAT da fuck does that mean? my ego was never into being a gunslinger. LORD knows i've seen enough egomaniacs trying to BLow their own horn and show off! big deal! prince actually has gotten better over the years...he's pretty versatile. is he a MASTER? i don't think so...but he's GOOD. that's all that i care about. here'a few more MASTERS for ya: les paul,chet atkins...james burton...carl perkins... brian setzer (quite excellent guy...check him out) frank zappa...i forgot this dude...WOW...johnny guitar watson (checkout his 50's work...space guitar is SCARy) real GUItar masters don't brag man...they don't have to... their work stands for itself. other underrated guitarists:steve miller,robert cray, jimmie vaughn,mike scott (pretty good) otis rush,albert collins,sugarfoot... | |
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santana is good guitar player,
samba pa ti rule my world. but he is too predictable,u can c his every move. prince can out play santana anytime, santana medley sounds better then santana. i dont think prince is a god.he had some bad moments on guitar like rave 2000 concert. totaly uninspired, but listen to jazz solos on strollin live these days. listen 2 that jazz song from xpectations. those are mighty good solos. the best years in prince guitar world are 1979,1981-1984 -1988-1993-2000-still going strong. | |
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