theblueangel said:

Transcribes them from what???
The voice in his head?
The talking dog that lives next door?
If he is going to use quotation marks I want to see footnotes baby!

Nothing in quotation marks that I have posted on this thread are original thoughts of mine. Unfortunately, I am not at liberty to say anymore. I sincerely wish I could. Sorry.

Anji said:

not too dramatic, huh...


just post who it is. and if you're not supposed to, then why post it at all?

Anji said:

Thank you for explaining that.

Do those you are quoting mind that you use their (anonymous) quotes in your posts? Why do they not post their thoughts or comments themselves?

I'm not trying to pick at you, Anji. I just don't understand all the secrecy here or why the folks you're quoting cannot speak for themselves.

Anji said:

Better late than never.
This should have been posted along with the orginal posts. Is it that hard to explain these posts before you dump them on people to read? Like "Nothing I have posted in this thread are original thoughts of mine. Take them as you will. Enjoy!" A little preamble wouldn't kill ya.

My desire is to promote a diverse understanding of human behaviour. Everything quoted here has been approved, however, much of the source material I am working from is strictly confidential.

A mountain man's gotta stick to his guns.

Anji said:

why?

AaronMaximus said:

That's just the way it is for me to continue my work.

Anji said:

you realize, of course, that starting a thread about it, you're, in theory, supposed to be sparking some sort of conversation about it.

but what you're doing is posting a conversation between you and someone else (or you and yourself, i haven't figured out which).

the conversation is taking place outside of here, so what's the point in it being commented on here?

AaronMaximus said:

The material has been posted here to encourage discussion and learning, from both sides. Like I've already said, my desire is to promote a diverse understanding of human behaviour. It helps my work.

Anji said:

And the nature of this "work" would be???

Anji said:

you've done nothing of the sort, because posting two sides of a conversation that's already taken place elsewhere leaves little room for people to join in, and have it explained by both participants in the conversation.

thedoorkeeper said:

That's for me to know, and not necessary for discussion.

.
[This message was edited Mon Sep 15 11:14:31 PDT 2003 by naturegirl]

AaronMaximus said:

I understand that there is no explanation of the intent behind the original disussion here. That does not, however, prevent anyone from engaging in the content of it. Sensual Melody and Byron have contributed some thought provoking insight, for example. You are choosing not to engage in the topic at hand, but instead create another one.

thedoorkeeper said:

Interesting. For me, Prince has meant a lot more than simply appealing to my taste. Prince has represented true art and a true devotion to following his soul, something that I respect a lot. Certainly, I don't always see eye to eye with all of his beliefs, but that doesn't mean I'm not at the very least interested in what he has to say (or not say).

Also, I find it interesting that "open-minded" people are alienated by Prince expressing his beliefs. I agree with the author who said that the truly open-minded people should be able to distinguish Prince's views from their own, etc. In essence, those who are trying to squelch Prince's messages because they are "exclusive" are themselves falling victim to the vice they accuse to be Prince's.

Maybe we miss the point. Maybe we are choosing to not see the point and rather sidestep it with another issue and make that the point.

What am I talking about? The point I speak of is music. Prince makes music and is genius doing so. He has run the entire gamut in his styles, content, and influences. When you make music, art of any media for that matter, it is a reflection of you. You cannot write about what is not inside you. Like the Bible itself states “from the heart’s abundance, the mouth speaks.” Prince has gone through a lot. He has gone through some changes along the way, as indeed we all should. If any of us are the same person we were when Prince started making music…then I don’t know what to say about you. You just haven’t grown or have been afraid to.

Prince obviously has little fear when it comes to that. He allows himself to grow. He makes no apologies for what he believes in. He never has. Some people have had problems with him and his music in the past while others cheered him. Now, those same people who cheered his expression in the past have come to jeer him as if it were some personal affront to them that he no longer holds the system of beliefs and values they felt they had an ally in. The Scriptures speak of people like Prince and others’ reaction at 1 Peter 4:4: Because YOU do not continue running with them in this course to the same low sink of debauchery, they are puzzled and go on speaking abusively of YOU

People change. When said people are artists, their art changes with them. It is not personal and it is not an intentional divisiveness aimed at one’s following. Prince has to be true to himself and what he believes. If the fan base that touted open-mindedness towards the old Prince now is no longer tolerant of the new Prince, that is pretty hypocritical. And I almost agree with the sentiments above, ‘who needs them’? Prince, like most greats, produces art for him. The fans and following are a pleasant (sometimes) by-product. Not to say he doesn’t appreciate any and all who have supported him through the years. But, I doubt he’ll buckle under the perceived weight of some of those fans no longer supporting him for the choice he has made to serve his Creator, Jehovah.

Bibleteacher89 said:

Thx for the message, Biblet. Interesting. Just a quick point. Imho (as if ), being human we can all be hypocritical. I certainly have been in the past and I cannot guarantee I won't be in the future. Knowing this, who am I to judge when I perceive others to be hypocritical? Although, again, being human, I have judged.

I do also think we are divine as well as human, tho!

andypandy
[This message was edited Thu Sep 11 2:07:20 PDT 2003 by andyf]

Moonbeam said:

I agree that fans who claim they are open minded should respect Prince for having his own beliefs, just like they expect him or anyone else to do with their own beliefs. It becomes a different issue however when Prince, in his music directed to his fans, claims that his beliefs, religious and/or political, are the truth and nothing but the truth. ("Ain't no room for disagree")

In that respect I beg to differ, especially when those beliefs have become the opposite of the beliefs he has expressed throughout his entire carreer and, even more so, when Prince claims that his fans are his "family" or "friends". One can not underestimate the power such messages from an artist like Prince can have on certain fans, especially the ones who have been along for the ride for a long time and always felt a connection to Prince's former beliefs.

It is not unreasonable therefore to expect Prince to show the same respect to his fans in return, because anyone claiming their beliefs are the truth, and nothing but the truth, makes their beliefs exclusive and as a consequences alienates the ones who, for reason of their own beliefs, can not accept it as "the truth". To make the argument complete: if anyone on top of that also claims they are your friend or family would they be in the right - so to speak- to alienate you, just because you are supposed to be so open-minded to accept everything that is said as "the truth", even when it opposes the things you believe and Prince himself used to believe? Would you alienate your friends?

Prince could easily avoid all this by simply continuing to express his beliefs, in that respect staying true to hismelf, however without the explicit additional and repeating message that it is "the truth" and without claiming that his fans are his "family" or "friends". Then anyone believing otherwise does not have to conclude that he apparantly does not know "the truth" and apparantly isn't the right "friend" for Prince.

The fact of the matter is however that the damage has been done already and Prince is not the person to admit that he could have done things differently. Altho' it's never too late, I'm afraid that his ways will not change easily, even when he will be convinced that he could and should express his beliefs otherwise; not by not expressing them anymore, but by taking into account who you are directing your messages to and what can be done and said to make sure your "friends" won't feel alienated.

Art is selective in that it must reflect the artist's metaphysical value judgments. One's own judgment must not be compromised by a fanbase.

What a notionally diverse, although ultimately colourless, collection of pretentious twaddle.

All I've got 2 say is Prince do ur thing
Phuck wit what people say, can't make everybody happy,
So Why not urself ?



I inspire ur efforts more then ever
U where always a real artist who knew how 2 true 2 yo self and I highly look up 2 that, It's real easy 2 just give up, give in and give people what they want, but you want to know what the irony of that is, people will always have something 2 complain about... So I just say Do u. That's the only things that matters... Just don't retire yet

Keep preaching the good word Brotha .....
[This message was edited Thu Sep 11 5:50:14 PDT 2003 by DigitalLisa]

I wouldn't say that Prince's fanbase is totaly irrelevent to the fans because he has to make a living..

"He appears well on his way to alienating much of his loyal gay following, as their behaviour is not tolerated by the JW's teachings, and as a general observation, these stringent views are off-putting to many of his open-minded following too, regardless of sexual orientation."

I'm not sure if I agree that this is an accurate reflection of the mood within the 'loyal gay following,' or is it? I actually don't know, what do you think?

Abrazo said:

Why does it bother you if Prince believes his version of 'the truth' is actually the truth, and wants to share that with us? I'm confused. I mean, hasn't that always been the case with Prince, sharing his viewpoints on the world (often immaturely formed, I might add) through his music regardless of subject matter.

I'm not sure if I find it amusing or disturbing that his views on God are commanding such a defensive manner amongst some of his fans. Afterall, who gives a fuck if that's what he believes?! Like others have said, I say whatever gets you through, so be it. I'm confident in my own views to know where I stand on the issue of God, or whatever, and no-one has any power unless I give it to them.

As for the issue of Prince labelling his friends as 'fam,' I mean, c'mon, for fuck's sake, do you actually feel like you're meant to be a friend? He's an artist with his own very individual way of getting what he wants out of life, and he goes about getting it in a manner which suits him. That doesn't make him a friend. That makes him an artist with a sense of business about him. No?

lovebird said:

Agreed.

teller said:

I would think that that's the idea. But then again, I would have thought we had left the impressionable age some time ago, on both sides.

It appears that some fans think that because they have been listening to his music, and therefore, buying into his values for so long, that they no longer feel comfortable with this new set of specific values. The point is, his values should not automatically be yours. Your values should be yours. No one can take that away from you unless you let them. I would think you're going down the wrong path in life if you've forgetten to form your own opinion, and respect others for theirs.

Coincidentally, I concur that Prince has as much to be accused of on this count, as some of his fans. But then again, I already know about Prince's values and in my opinion (for a number of reasons) he's rarely exhibited a particularly sophisticated or developed approach to his thoughts. Isn't that what is so attractive? He lives in his own world, and as such, the music usually comes from a pure place when he's on point artistically.