azifwekare2000 said:

So you're the one who know the "true" way to follow the bible!

No. But then, neither is Prince.

Universaluv said:

I remember the Satan Claws ordeal. How dumb was that? I never read or seen anywhere that Satan dresses up like Santa, or his favorite color is red. Where did that comparison come from?

No we don't. He's always believed different things than me, but he's gotten real good and JUDGING everyone and that's not right. I give a respect to him that he doesn't give back to his fans. Satan's Claws anyone???[/quote]

EverlastingNow said:

We're aren't gonna agree on this one are we. IMHO, one man's "judging" is another man's "firm belief" . I don't agree with many of his apparent beliefs either, but I understand that someone can have a firm belief that X is wrong and Y is right. Of course nowadays it seems that if Prince actually says he believes in a right and a wrong way to do things without some sort of disclaimer to keep from offending others then he is being disrespectful. Oh well.


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[This message was edited Wed Aug 27 14:16:38 PDT 2003 by Universaluv]

azifwekare2000 said:

I never claimed Prince was. What did you mean by "if you truly follow the bible" then?

Well, what I meant was... there are people who read the bible and choose to follow it, and people who dont. Then there's the people who conform the Word to their beliefs... let's not go there. If someone reads that verse, they can choose for themselves to worship in truth/truly worship or not. How did you read it? That we should worship partially? Half-way? As long as a person stays true to themselves, and themselves only, and they feel right in their Spirit that they are connected with God... they should be happy for themselves. Share the good news with people, that's fine. But push it on people through your music? Why?

Universaluv said:

azifwekare2000 said:

Why not? Is there some rule that says that music or art can't explore the artist's religious beliefs? That would invalidate a huge (if not a majority) amount of artistic works.

And who exactly has he pushed it on? You can either listen to it or not. That's your choice.

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[This message was edited Wed Aug 27 14:31:26 PDT 2003 by Universaluv]

Universaluv said:

We may not agree on it but at least we're not disrespecting each other right?

EverlastingNow said:

I did read the thread but I wanted to say this instead

EverlastingNow said:

True. Course I don't think that Prince has "disrespected" me either.

I was very into religion growing up; until, I realized how man-made it really is imo. It is soo easily corrupted and misunderstood that I chose to stay away from it. I feel that God is "Faith" and to me faith really has nothing to do with religion. Personally, I feel that faith has more to do with your personal feelings and what YOU believe; and, I believe that there is only one God. It is the different religions that have chosen to make the one God into several. But, in the end, God is God; no matter what He has been named. Sorry to jump in

Universaluv said:

And I do

EverlastingNow said:

wooow

If Prince wants to put a barrier between himself and his fams, then he can continue pushing his beliefs all he wants. But you can't tell me that you could easily stop listening to his music after doing it for over 20 some years. I will gradually stop listening, and supporting him, the pushier he pushes his "religion" on me.

The discussion was: "Prince isn't Prince anymore!"". And he's not. Nobody is comfortable with religion being shoved at them, that includes myself. I was raised in church, and still attend. But to try and tell all your fams to agree on 1 name for God? To tell you they read the bible, but twist it to their beliefs? The bible never once, in any translation mentions the word "jehova," yet they think that's God's name. But jw's don't believe we have a soul, yet the bible mentions the word over 140 times. Why?

To say you wont cuss, because of your newfound religion, but it's OK to call Abraham Lincoln a racist? I'm not being judgemental, I'm just asking why? Why is it all right for him to be judgemental, sitting up on his high horse? He'll end up there all alone too.

So, I will choose not to listen his propaganda. I was just covering some good points EverlastingNow was making. You've made some good points too. But for him to try and sway his fams into his beliefs... I'm sorry, I have to disagree with that... no matter how much it invalidates his work. Let your fams have a mind of their own and believe what they want to believe. No instead he thinks we're all little puppy dogs who will go to his concerts, so he can guide us to his version of the "truth." Not God's truth, but a man-made truth. Larry Graham's influence to be exact.

My point is, this is not the Prince I have grown to appreciate over the past 20 some years. Sounds like a puppet with a certain religion pulling his strings.

So Prince is not Prince... I've chosen to stop listening to him... 'nuf said. Peace and I'm out.

Universaluv said:

This is a different Prince only in the regard that his music has changed and now he is more involved in the Jehovah Whitnesses. I hope his philosophies haven't changed really cause he Always was the Wildest and all. I Suppose although it's hard to Believe he has Settled Down and well maybe all that performing really knocked him out a bit. I just can't even Fathom Prince getting OLD. See to me I just well always remember that slinky,Chanteuse writhing on the floor and wearing his lace peak a boy pants saying "Does Your Man Have An Ass Like Mine" or those SMOLDERING EYES.

My goodness you took a stand about what you think is right and wrong. Refreshing!

Prince-2002 "I wasn't trying to push you into nothin, I said take yo time you figure out what you wanna do. Don't be trying to ask nobody nothin, you supposed to have yo connection, don't worry about my connection get your own connection together!"

azifwekare2000 said:

[This message was edited Wed Aug 27 17:45:24 PDT 2003 by Universaluv]

Well, yeah, of course he's changed, I don't many 45 year olds who are the same way when they were like 21.

His ideas have changed, your point? Sure, you may not like them, but oh well.
I personally, cannot stand overly religious people, and Prince has been on the borderline of being that for quite a while, but i'm not gonna go around being pissed because of it. I never was a big fan of Prince the man, I mean yeah, he's nice (when I met him), but I can't see being around him on a daily basis without cursing him out or choking him.
I, personally hold a deeep respect for the people who have worked with him (in the past---NOT the yes men).
So I guess maybe that's why his um..."change" hasn't affected me that much. I never have been impressed with him as a person in the first place.
Here's something I posted in a previous thread
dealing with this subject, my "theory", I guess:
well his belief in God definitely stems from his upbringing; both his mom and Andre's mom were quite religious ladies.
He's always been "obsessed" with God, he just decided to take it to the next level, I've known lots of people around his age that have gotten more into religion (for various reasons), he's no special case.
I.E., one of my mother's next door neighbors, she used to be a regular lady, belived in God, went to church occaisionally, then her husband died, now she goes to church every Sunday, always quoting bible passages, house full of religious paraphinialla, ect. I'm not saying her husband's dieing resulted in her behavoir, but I think it was a contributing factor. I find that lots of people who experience the death of a loved one get into religion, so maybe the death of Prince's parents and son contributed to his "religious streak".
Many people turn to religion for various reasons, death, drugs, failure, so on and so forth, that's why, as someone pointed out,you hear rock stars/celeberties turn to God.
Al Green, Vanity, Tina Turner,ect.; very dark things happened to the listed people and shortly after these things happened, they turned to religion.

Getting back to Prince, take a already spiritual guy who was rasied in a fairly religious upbringing, experiences three deaths, has somewhat "failure", and there you go.

And sometimes, more often than not, when getting into religion it becomes somewhat of an obsession, something that draws people in, it's like a good book that you can't put down. Sometimes you can go too far, that's where preaching stems from, it can become an adiction.
I'm not saying that's what is happening to Prince, but he's certainly been on the borderline.

...well that's my two cents.

A lot of Orgers tend to be anally posessive as hell when it comes to Prince's personal belief system. As if him simply singing about his convictions is in and of itself the equivalent of pushing them down his fan's throats. If he is pushing those beliefs down anyone's throats, he pushed explicit sex down his fan's throats too - but no one outside of the PMRC complained. Just as Prince's fans told offended people in 1985 not to buy his records if they didn't like it, insecure Prince fans should take their own 1985 advice and not support Prince since this is such a huge issue to those who are bothered by it. Nobody is putting a gun to anyone's head to listen to Prince's Jehova Witness-laden music, and nobody put a gun to those heads Tipper Gore was trying to shield from his music when he sang about Nikki masturbating or wanting to fuck the taste out of Marsha's mouth.

Because he has the right of free speech he had a right to sing about fucking until the dawn, just as he has a right to sing about his convictions that are aligned with a religion that some people so intensely despise.

People here will say he never sang about religion before, which is purely selective memory. He has mentioned Jesus by name in his songs (even in the vaunted Lovesexy album which is often erroneously pointed to by some fans here as not religious, but "spiritual"), he has recited The Lord's Prayer which, if you are a believer, was a blueprint prayer from Jesus to His disciples. The last time I checked, Jesus was the basis for Christianity. A religion. But Prince's affiliation with the Jehova Witnesses seems to fly in the faces of some of his hardcore fan's sensibilities.

Although they keep hanging on, year after disappointing year, some claiming they can't stand him, yet they have Orgnames and avatars with his song titles and images. Some making violent "jokes" about him, yet they keep trying to keep tabs on his weekly activities and become highly frustrated when there are no new rumors or sightings of him lately (someone should keep an eye on these psychos ). Some sheltered ones who apparently think he's the biggest asshole the music industry has ever seen, yet they find themselves supporting him - trying to get that latest release with Prince's name on it by any means necessary, and wondering where his next gig is going to be. Yet, these folks are in no way "fams"...anyone that feels as abused as some people here let on, and don't have the convictions to fight it are the biggest "fams" because THEY PUT UP WITH IT, year after disappointing year. But The Spin is that it's the "other" fans who are "fams." Spare me.

Regardless of Prince's standing commercially within the last decade, regardless of the fact that he has no new music on the oh-so-validating pop charts alongside Britney, Justin, 50 Cent, Beyonce, etc. like many here want, Prince has got some serious MOJO working, and he's got it working on you.


£
[This message was edited Thu Aug 28 17:43:15 PDT 2003 by Supernova]

Supernova said:

well said!!!

ya'll are just now figuring this shit out?!!?

But Isn't this what Prince thinks of Himself? I could never get his Insecurity so many references to Ugly. Listen,how this man gonna think about Himself this way? How in the World this MAN GONNA THINK HE'S A Failure? This man is GREAT! I'm just Sick of other People taking his Fire. He can blow the Airwaves-Up. He's angered some people but Damn I think he could still do Saturday Night Live, MTV and other shows. Religion is a Very Good Thing INDEED. It's not wrong. Fanaticism is! Must have a Balance. Whether alot of people like it or not well BET Uncut,Strip Clubs,Porno and All Exists. Sex exists. What's Sexy is not somebody who is a Slave and just lies there. Men want someone HOT. What you gonna sleep with Yo Mother in a MU-MU? And Nicey,Nice is Sickenly Sweet and Stepford Wives are Boring. People wANT HOT STUFF NOT ICE COLD FISH OR BETTER YET DEAD TUNA...rOTTING . Get REAL you want a Man well you gotta look Hot and be 10x Hotter in the BEDROOM.

gyro34 said:

That was yesterday,but today and onwards...Listening to NEWS is like meeting a new person about whom I've heard good and bad things. Unless I put aside all those comments, I won't get to know that person for who he is. So, I decided to give NEWS one more chance. Right now, I am listening to it with no expectations. I am starting to appreciate and feel the beauty of it all. NEWS is a challenge different from TRC and ONA. On those, I had to stop thinking whether the JW religion is good or bad. Afterall, I bought those CDs knowing that Prince is a JW. At some point, I hesitated between moving on or adapting to the change and continue to be a fan. I chose the latter option. I am looking forward to next challenging album. No, the magic hasn't disappeared, it is there to be discovered with an open mind.

Yeah, RIGHT!

Prince is still Prince, and what a PRINCE!
NEWS is terrific!!
OK, he míght not be doing funky lyrics and sexy sounds anymore, but imagine what it's like to be "old", and maybe not want to do anymore funky music. I bet he can't even do the splits nomore...
So what about the music?

WTF do U expect??

EverlastingNow said:

I think E-Now has a point. I have sensed the same trend.

On Lovesexy, Prince was testifying to his faith to inspire his audience. With TRC, Prince is preaching to his audience on the right way to profess one's faith. I don't think that E-Now was launching a direct criticism of Prince's new beliefs, just in the way he has professed them.

Although I do think that Prince has sung about religion throughout his career, if not explicitly (God, 4 The Tears In Your Eyes, etc.) then implicitly through in his "sex v. spirituality" tracks (Temptation, Rock Hard In A Funky Place, Lovesexy, etc.). The tension between the spiritual and the carnal provided a great deal of excitement and surprise to his music. But if he's worked that out, it's time for him to move on.