papabeat said:

I think Prince acutely recognised his struggle between money and art especially during the Rave era. I think that's because he realised he hadn't managed to do anything successfully post Warner Brothers. He neither managed a great selling album during that era, nor did he manage fully supporting any truly artistic endeavours. That is, until The Rainbow Children.

One might argue that by surrounding himself with the likes of Larry and Chaka, he could have sub-consciously been making himself feel better about his inability to achieve what it is he clearly set out to do since The Gold Experience. I definitely think he found comfort in surrounding himself with his idols during a time when commercial success alluded him.

The artistic rebirth I'm suggesting started with The Rainbow Children and has continued since. Although I rate the other projects in being part of this era, I would only consider The Rainbow Children and N.E.W.S. as being worthy of retail release. That's not contradictory to what I have been saying.

I’ve been asked to contribute my thoughts to this thread and I while I wish I had more time to spend contemplating my contribution, I decided I would capture my initial thoughts as quickly as I can. I think that provides more interesting results sometimes.

I want to share something with you. I’m from a very musical family. My father is a bass player, guitarist and vocalist, been a musician all of his adult life, is now in his sixties and told me that one thing he’s learned after all these years of playing music for a living is that for the creative person that plays music and wishes to progress, there is nowhere else to go but into jazz. Simple as that. The reason he says is that once you learn to write and record simple funk, pop or rock songs and learn all the structures and different ways to present them, it becomes a box. Limiting. Especially if you do it well. There is no envelope to push. No new landscapes to discover. No way to expand on your vocabulary. Until you go to jazz. I never really understood jazz until he explained that you must listen to jazz as if it were a conversation between the instruments. Each instrument has its voice and a sentence or paragraph to say, sometimes, like us, they talk over each other, but the main thing to remember is that it is a conversation of the moment. Abstract. So it can still present surprises for the musicians during the performance. Pop music limits you to always returning to a phrase or chorus; repetitive; more like an oration where the idea has already been presented, now it is simply being reiterated over and over.

Many great musicians end up with some sort of jazz period. I will use the example of Joni Mitchell - one of Prince’s favorites. After some wonderful albums of very structured songs in mostly the folk music genre, she took a year off and returned with “Court and Spark” a collaboration with the LA Express, a jazz-based group of players. This was the beginning of her foray into the genre and pretty much culminated in her collaboration with Charles Mingus. As a result of these excursions, She was horribly ghetto-ized by both the jazz purists, who felt she wasn’t crating ‘real jazz’ and her existing fan base who felt she wasn’t ‘doing the music she was best at’. I am sure Prince is quite bemused to be in the same circumstance at this point in his musical journey. A creative musician creates for their own sense of understanding of themselves and their internal human struggle to be understood. Not for some fan base, nor the critics and not always for other musicians although there are exceptions to all of these. Mostly, it’s Prince’s journey and if we can tag along then - wow. Bonus for him. But we are not owed some musical equivalent of an investment return. We do not have the ability to dictate to this person what type of material he records, and we should be ashamed to desire such a thing. How can an artist create from their muse in such an environment? This is the very reason Prince fought so hard to be released from record label controls.

We the fans don’t even agree on what kind of music we enjoy in general, let alone what we prefer from Prince. Specifically in regards to N.E.W.S., the criticism is baffling. I was particularly struck by comments that this is not new music and has been done and heard before and apparently there is a great misconception about what the phrase “New Directions in Music” means to Prince. It’s simply a new direction for Prince. He is not saying this is brand new music never before beheld. There also seems to be this implicit misunderstanding between Prince and his fans that some day, because he is a genius with a capital G, he will create some sort of brand new music such as the world has never heard before and revolutionize the planet with it, thus vilifying our long suffering faith in his musical mastery. I keep seeing people type things like “…music that he is capable of” or “…album that I know he still has in him”. Let me tell you, nothing created is original. Ever. That is simply not possible. All is derivative; some ideas from Lou Reed here, some concepts about arranging from Miles Davis there. And it has always been that way with Prince’s material. I don’t understand how anyone could miss that. It seems as though most people want to categorize this record as his jazz piece, but it can’t simply be put into a single category can it? It’s Prince’s version of….whatever.

Obviously I have more to say, and I'm addressing earlier posts on this thread, as opposed to where it has evolved to, but I know how hard it is to digest these long posts so I’ll leave it there for now.

Discuss.

No.

But it is FAR from innovative...

Honestly, if you people don't find a way to co-exist on the site with civility and start showing each other a bit of fucking courtesy and respect as human beings, I'm gonna recommend that Ben just axe the forums altogether. I've had it!!

Wow. What a pompous and elitist theory as to why some Prince fans don't care for his current output.

It's always bothered me, and I don't get why in the Prince fan community, there is always this constant need to be superior to other fans, be it either by some bootleg(s) you have, some "insider info" you claim to have, or some superior knowledge or appreciation of Prince's music or music in general someone thinks they possess. I see that attitude constantly exhibited all the time around here. Why is that? Why is that attitude and need to feel superior or to be "one up" on other fans SO rampant in the Prince fan community?

Anyway about NEWS - no offense but maybe some people just plain DON'T LIKE IT. Period. I don't like some types of music and some types of literature and some types of art. So what? People have different tastes and just because someone doesn't care for a particular art form or genre or style doesn't make them less intelligent or sophisticated, or their opinions less valid.

I myself personally like NEWS but I don't think I'm musically superior in comparison to those who don't care for it. Besides, if I like and enjoy it, what do I care if someone else doesn't?

True, there are those who are totally stuck in one groove when it comes to Prince's music, whether it be one certain era or sound, and they aren't gonna like much else that doesn't fit that mold. It's too bad they aren't able to get the enjoyment from his current offerings that I do, but then they probably like stuff I don't and they'd probably feel bad for me that I can't enjoy what they do. But guess what? Maybe they just don't like jazz. Maybe they've listened to jazz over the years and found they just don't care for it. I've eaten in snooty expensive restaurants before and found I just don't like some "gourmet" cooking..I'd rather have a pizza from Pizza Hut than some of that stuff. Does that make me a less refined and sophisticated person just because I don't have an appreciation for escargot or whatever?

My point is you shouldn't classify everyone who doesn't like Prince's current music as being narrowminded or less cultured or evolved than those who do like it. That's a very pompous attitude and unless you know EVERYONE'S exact life/musical experience(s) on which to base your theory, it's very silly to think an accurate assessment of them is being made.

Forgive me if I misunderstood your post but I couldn't help get a feeling of arrogance and elitism from it and that sort of thing has just always bugged me so much around here so I had to say something.

..
[This message was edited Fri Aug 22 12:44:01 PDT 2003 by SnowQueen]

Based on how Prince appeared to judge how successful his records were post Warner Brothers / pre The Rainbow Children, I think it's safe to assume that he was not confident about a 'proper release' of "The Truth" album. Quite simply, he was motivated by sales back then (in an attempt to prove his viablity within the music industry, or make money off his fans, or both). As such, he did not realise the merit in releasing an album like "The Truth" in the same manner he now realises the merit in releasing an album like N.E.W.S.

"Some of the reactions I’ve read on this album are clearly based in nothing more than a simple lack of experience.

At the time The Truth was released Prince was incapable of releasing The Truth as a single cd. The only way he could release it was in a multi-cd form. At the time of Crystal Balls release Prince was still tied up in contractual obligations with Warner Bros.

Anji said:

One of my favorite bands right now is Godspeed You! Black Emperor, so I don't think I'm inexperienced. Prince still sounds like pretentious elevator jazzfunk drivel no matter how hard you try putting the lack of enthusiasm for it with the listener "who isn't ready for this jelly". It's crap because Prince simply doesn't have the depth to pull it off.

HOLD YOUR TEXT DEACON!

I’ve been asked to contribute my thoughts to this thread and I while I wish I had more time to spend contemplating my contribution, I decided I would capture my initial thoughts as quickly as I can. I think that provides more interesting results sometimes.

I want to share something with you. I’m from a very musical family. My father is a bass player, guitarist and vocalist, been a musician all of his adult life, is now in his sixties and told me that one thing he’s learned after all these years of playing music for a living is that for the creative person that plays music and wishes to progress, there is nowhere else to go but into jazz. Simple as that. The reason he says is that once you learn to write and record simple funk, pop or rock songs and learn all the structures and different ways to present them, it becomes a box. Limiting. Especially if you do it well. There is no envelope to push. No new landscapes to discover. No way to expand on your vocabulary. Until you go to jazz. I never really understood jazz until he explained that you must listen to jazz as if it were a conversation between the instruments. Each instrument has its voice and a sentence or paragraph to say, sometimes, like us, they talk over each other, but the main thing to remember is that it is a conversation of the moment. Abstract. So it can still present surprises for the musicians during the performance. Pop music limits you to always returning to a phrase or chorus; repetitive; more like an oration where the idea has already been presented, now it is simply being reiterated over and over.

Many great musicians end up with some sort of jazz period. I will use the example of Joni Mitchell - one of Prince’s favorites. After some wonderful albums of very structured songs in mostly the folk music genre, she took a year off and returned with “Court and Spark” a collaboration with the LA Express, a jazz-based group of players. This was the beginning of her foray into the genre and pretty much culminated in her collaboration with Charles Mingus. As a result of these excursions, She was horribly ghetto-ized by both the jazz purists, who felt she wasn’t crating ‘real jazz’ and her existing fan base who felt she wasn’t ‘doing the music she was best at’. I am sure Prince is quite bemused to be in the same circumstance at this point in his musical journey. A creative musician creates for their own sense of understanding of themselves and their internal human struggle to be understood. Not for some fan base, nor the critics and not always for other musicians although there are exceptions to all of these. Mostly, it’s Prince’s journey and if we can tag along then - wow. Bonus for him. But we are not owed some musical equivalent of an investment return. We do not have the ability to dictate to this person what type of material he records, and we should be ashamed to desire such a thing. How can an artist create from their muse in such an environment? This is the very reason Prince fought so hard to be released from record label controls.

We the fans don’t even agree on what kind of music we enjoy in general, let alone what we prefer from Prince. Specifically in regards to N.E.W.S., the criticism is baffling. I was particularly struck by comments that this is not new music and has been done and heard before and apparently there is a great misconception about what the phrase “New Directions in Music” means to Prince. It’s simply a new direction for Prince. He is not saying this is brand new music never before beheld. There also seems to be this implicit misunderstanding between Prince and his fans that some day, because he is a genius with a capital G, he will create some sort of brand new music such as the world has never heard before and revolutionize the planet with it, thus vilifying our long suffering faith in his musical mastery. I keep seeing people type things like “…music that he is capable of” or “…album that I know he still has in him”. Let me tell you, nothing created is original. Ever. That is simply not possible. All is derivative; some ideas from Lou Reed here, some concepts about arranging from Miles Davis there. And it has always been that way with Prince’s material. I don’t understand how anyone could miss that. It seems as though most people want to categorize this record as his jazz piece, but it can’t simply be put into a single category can it? It’s Prince’s version of….whatever.

Obviously I have more to say, and I'm addressing earlier posts on this thread, as opposed to where it has evolved to, but I know how hard it is to digest these long posts so I’ll leave it there for now.

Discuss.

Anji said:

Back when it was recorded, the plan was for The Truth to be a "free" album that would be mailed to anyone who requested it. After thinking about that idea a little further, he decided to just include it with CB instead to save money. Since the people who ordered CB through NEWFUNK got the "special" packaging (the infamous hockey puck), he didn't bother to press the individual Truth CD cases.

So it was never that he considered the album unworthy of a proper release (it got great reviews)... it was just that the original idea (giving the album away for free) turned out to be more expensive, so he gave it away with CB. The fact that he sent the original Truth/Don't Play Me promo out as a special Valentines Day surprise to industry people only a few months after releasing Emancipation indicates to me that he was in fact very proud of the Truth, though he subsequently may have distanced himself from it due to how personal parts of the album are--including the time period in which he recorded it.

The Truth was gonna follow Emancipation on EMI as I understand it, but the label folded.

We all know Prince changes his mind on a whim, and you can't judge what he does in 1997 with what he does in 2003, in terms of business/release strategy, because he just does stuff on the fly.

So this stuff about him seeing The Truth as not being worthy of proper release is just unfounded speculation and clutching at straws to prove a point.

Fantastic, spot on post Jestyr.