It's not boring in the sense that it's overall garbage, but it peaks rarely. There are many nice details, I agree, but it's not the type of music that forces you to listen because it is so special. it's nice meandering music, very well performed and with sense of detail, but it's not up there.
The fact that prince can paint/write music with all the tools at his dissposal, doesn't mean you end up with a masterpiece. Using all the colours you end up with a brown mushy painting with no focuspoint.

I said it before and I'll say it again; It's a nice enjoyable record, but compaired to the raw imaginitive power of Bitches Brew, it is peanuts. After listening to BB, NEWS is a safe bet, music made to please.

Anji said:

Composed? Wow...I assumed from the sound of it that it was improvised, then re-arranged a little after the fact with post-production in order to sound more "composed." Not the other way 'round!
:LOL:

I will listen with new ears and see...

(what LA gig recording?)

teller said:

"...this album sounds like a hybrid of live improvisational jamming on loosely sketched-out blueprints and after-the-event studio wizardry that brought it all into a cohesive, deliberate, mostly premeditated whole."

Okay, Anji, you want to know why those of us who don't like N.E.W.S., don't like it. Here's why I don't like it.

1. He calls it "New Directions in Music." Fine. But a new direction for what? Music in general? Not really, as it sounds like that crappy Brecker Brothers 80's fusion that's popular on "smooth jazz" stations. New for Prince? Again, not really, as he's been on the instrumental tip since his earliest demos. Really, the only new thing is a four song cycle with all four songs being the same length. And that's not even a first - Lou Reed did that 27 years ago with Metal Machine Music.

2. They're not really songs. Yeah, I know it's not formal (using hard bop as the template) jazz, but even the 'blowing sessions' that were so often used and derided as a recording method by Prestige records in the 50s utilized a common Theme-solo-solo-solo-Theme approach to the song structure. Somebody cited his opening to the Small Club show - that has a guitar theme used througout as a motif that frames the solos. Does he have to follow any sort of rule when creating these pieces? Of course not - his willingness to bend the rules is one of the things I love about him. Maybe this just falls outside of my comfort zone - though I doubt it - If I can love "Metal Machine Music" and "On The Corner" I should be able to love anything.

3. There's no heart to this. Look at the albums generally regarded as his weakest - Rave, NPS, The Vault - and you'll find performances that sound like they were phoned in. Why could he come back from Rave with a piece like TRC? It's the same musicianship, the same person working with the same 12 notes. With TRC, it just sounded like he had something to prove. With N.E.W.S., I don't hear what he's trying to prove, even with the excellent musicianship.

Finally, some points of argument. Anji, what is the simple lack of experience a person may have in not liking something? Example: I like the Backstreet Boys, and I like Justin Timberlake, but I don't like N'Sync. What's the lack of experience - it's all the same personnel, doing the same things. Also, I don't like the color green. Lack of experience?

You say you're "cool with anybody's opinion," yet when somebody says they don't like N.E.W.S. because it's been done before, you say mockingly, "stay in your box, Prince. I know what's best for you." Are you cool with their opinion or not?

Lastly, you correctly stated, "Not everything Miles tried was successful..." Why can't we say the same thing about Prince, and acknowledge that N.E.W.S. wasn't successful? Sure, at least he tried - most wouldn't even attempt to create, uh, whatever this is. But at least he tried. Good for him. Better luck next time.

Wow. What a pompous and elitist theory as to why some Prince fans don't care for his current output.

It's always bothered me, and I don't get why in the Prince fan community, there is always this constant need to be superior to other fans, be it either by some bootleg(s) you have, some "insider info" you claim to have, or some superior knowledge or appreciation of Prince's music or music in general someone thinks they possess. I see that attitude constantly exhibited all the time around here. Why is that? Why is that attitude and need to feel superior or to be "one up" on other fans SO rampant in the Prince fan community?

Anyway about NEWS - no offense but maybe some people just plain DON'T LIKE IT. Period. I don't like some types of music and some types of literature and some types of art. So what? People have different tastes and just because someone doesn't care for a particular art form or genre or style doesn't make them less intelligent or sophisticated, or their opinions less valid.

I myself personally like NEWS but I don't think I'm musically superior in comparison to those who don't care for it. Besides, if I like and enjoy it, what do I care if someone else doesn't?

True, there are those who are totally stuck in one groove when it comes to Prince's music, whether it be one certain era or sound, and they aren't gonna like much else that doesn't fit that mold. It's too bad they aren't able to get the enjoyment from his current offerings that I do, but then they probably like stuff I don't and they'd probably feel bad for me that I can't enjoy what they do. But guess what? Maybe they just don't like jazz. Maybe they've listened to jazz over the years and found they just don't care for it. I've eaten in snooty expensive restaurants before and found I just don't like some "gourmet" cooking..I'd rather have a pizza from Pizza Hut than some of that stuff. Does that make me a less refined and sophisticated person just because I don't have an appreciation for escargot or whatever?

My point is you shouldn't classify everyone who doesn't like Prince's current music as being narrowminded or less cultured or evolved than those who do like it. That's a very pompous attitude and unless you know EVERYONE'S exact life/musical experience(s) on which to base your theory, it's very silly to think an accurate assessment of them is being made.

Forgive me if I misunderstood your post but I couldn't help get a feeling of arrogance and elitism from it and that sort of thing has just always bugged me so much around here so I had to say something.

..
[This message was edited Fri Aug 22 12:44:01 PDT 2003 by SnowQueen]

SnowQueen said:

to be quite honest, snowqueen, the only person i've seen on here who exhibits the overt know-it-all attitude is bart, but there are varying degrees of knowledge 'round here when it comes to prince or any other musical outfit. i kinna like it, cuz although i don't know a whole lot about a particular musical subject or what-not, the cat sittin next to me might and i can learn from 'em.

it's not about having superiority (and definitely shouldn't be!), it's about info-swapping and sharin what you know with the rest of the folks here.


mine!!!

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

I agree with you. One of the reasons I come here is to learn more about Prince, his music, and music in general. I've been a Prince fan for 20 years but I realize how very much I DON'T know about him in particular and about music in general. There are a lot of incredibly intelligent and musically well-versed people on the Org -- waaay more than I - and I appreciate them and their sharing of information and knowledge.

It's just that I often feel, from some people, an undercurrent of wanting to outdo others in terms of how big a "Prince fan/m" they are. Like it's a contest and if someone else doesn't like what they do, or think the same way, they are a "lesser fan" or a less evolved person/fan/whatever.

IstenSzek said:

Pass the Peas... please

O.K.ya'll. I finally got N.E.W.S. and I was like... Now, I am one of those fans that usually liked ANYTHING that P does. But I couldn't get even get through the whole CD. Me and my son where going somewhere and he turned on the CD player and N.E.W.S. was still in there. I think it was on the second song. He was like... "What is this?" I kid you not. That emoticon looks exactly like the face that he made. I don't know what he was trying to do with that CD.

slm4m said:

same here...i loves me some peas, 'specially if they're sweet peas.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

with butta

summerdawn said:

hot peas n'butta

Some people, not everyone.

Theory, not fact.

I think it's worthwhile bearing in mind that Prince was, and still is, experiencing a very strong feeling, and the essence of that feeling is what is represented on N.E.W.S. By stating new directions in music, Prince is trying to convey his new found belief in his music (himself), which actually means on one hand, a renewal of truly representing what he feels, and on the other, a new way of presenting this.

This is new directions in music as far as Prince is concerned, and that is all he is concerned with. Hang on any words from Prince and you'll end up hanging yourself. He certainly is not considerate towards anyone's interpretation of whether he is being accurate or not. This is his feeling and he simply won't allow it to be tampered with. Anyone observing Prince's recent performance in LA will testify to that. Prince has always been at his most convincing when he truly believes in his convictions, and that show was startling evidence for their strength.

I judge Prince's success by what it is he sets out to accomplish. I doubt Prince's intention was to surpass his influences, or even innovate, with these so-called new directions in music. He simply intended to create a representation of where he is, at this moment in time. It's a good, strong feeling and that's why he is doing his best to convey it. He's sharing his spirit with us but he's offering no explanation. He's simply asking us to listen. If you don't sense Prince's soul stirring throughout this entire piece, is it worthwhile wondering where your soul is? I only ask as a friend once told me, "What causes a response to certain music but a sympathy for the emotions that are conveyed? Anji, since you are in such a good place, I wonder if this implies that Prince must have been in a good place when the music was made?"

In my opinion, this piece of music is art of the highest order because it successfully captures what the artist is attempting to express. I understand that whether one relates to any of this or not, is entirely dependent on you as an individual and all that comes with you. That's not to say one is better, or worse, for relating. It's simply to try and understand why.

sabaisabai said:

Some people on this site have been talking about wanting a POP album from Prince. It's more their speed. Fans who generally want that style (and it's really become an umbrella term) aren't interested in lyric-less, fusionesque music that lasts for almost a quarter of an hour a piece.

But whatever Prince does will not please each and every one of his fans. We come from too many diverse backgrounds, and his music has always covered the gamut to please his fans at one time or another, even if not simultaneously. When Prince was on cruise control in the '90s many of his online fans (me included even when I wasn't online) complained about the fact that he was underachieving by not displaying more of his musicianship. Hell, according to some he needed Wendy & Lisa for that. Now that he has been displaying more of his instrumental prowess during the past few years, some here are talking about more pop oriented music being the way to go.

Some also say that he's not listening to anyone. Yet, if he were to completely and totally listen to his fans about his musical direction they'd contradict themselves as much as he does, if not more.

Prince is taking the Miles Dewey Davis route of doing as he pleases, pop purists and purists in general be damned. For him to confine his vast abilities to the pop market all the time is to greatly hinder his growth. I'll be damned, even a 45 year old can continue to grow.

He won't be on this lyric-less excursion forever. But those of us who are willing to be open to taking that musical fork in the road that allows for 14 minute pieces don't mind. It's all music.

Anji said:

What new found belief in his music are you talking about? Was this belief lost? And if found, when was it found? And if this is a renewal, what makes this a new way of presenting this? What is the 'new' thing about N.E.W.S.? Please tell me, I want to know - what is new about this?


What does he set out to accomplish? Do you know? How do you measure if he succeeded?

Boy, you sure know how to dish it out. Wondering where my soul is? What does that even mean? I just got the new Guided By Voices album, and I don't like that either - maybe my 'soul' is in the wrong place. But I did like the new Macy Gray, and an old Willie Nelson cd I just heard, but I don't know if I really liked them, because my soul was in the wrong place when I listened to the crappy new Prince album. My compass is all off!!!

Again, you don't know if it successfully captures anything. Maybe it does, and years from now, Prince will only encore with West, maybe he'll quit the music business entirely because of the commercial and critical indifference to N.E.W.S., since he hoped it would mean something important to people listening to it. Or maybe, it's just something he tried, he'll say "I did that," and he'll move on to the next thing, completely moving on. We'll see. He still plays "When You Were Mine" live - because he knows it's good. But when was the last performance of "Poom Poom"? Don't wonder - maybe Prince realizes it's not that good a song. Let's see if he's playing this stuff in five years, and then you can tell me where my soul is. And then you can tell me where Prince's soul is, because I'm sure you'll know.

Prince creates music because it conveys what he wants to express, whatever that might be. With N.E.W.S., he's clearly conveying a very strong musical feeling. Nothing more, nothing less. I have judged it by what I believe to be Prince's purpose, and against those parameters, consider it to be successful. Again, how any of us relate to this piece of music is an entirely different matter. I happen to really enjoy it but we have come here to discuss why some people don't 'get' it. I offered this question because I am interested in understanding why we differ. Ultimately, I believe it's because we are all on entirely unique trains of thought at this very moment, as determined by our own spiritual journeys.

"Anj, don't go there. You're getting crucified."

.
[This message was edited Sat Aug 23 11:15:03 PDT 2003 by Anji]

Hmm...I still think it's mostly improvised, then stitched together with post-production...but then it's hard to say now--once the groove has been put down in your brain, it never sounds improvised again--because forever after, you now know what notes are coming next.

Heh..good thing, too, or else we'd never be able to hum along. :LOL:

teller said:

Excellent response, Teller.

You understood what was written and added to it in your own unique way. You were even brave enough to admit that you don't like jazz without feeling any need to become insecure, defensive or angry.

Anji said:

Don't try to understand anyone Anji...some folks see that as starting hostile confrontation. Why on earth would anyone come to a music and more discussion board and try to discuss things rationally?

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Very nicely said. And judging from this response, people can learn a lot from you.

Excerpts from the post that started this thread:

“Some of the reactions”
“We are all inexperienced (read: ignorant) on countless topics.”
‘Whether someone likes something or not is of course based in the subjective. I’m cool with anyone’s opinion.”
“But it’s all good. We’ve all been there.”

How could this be more softball? How could this be more about admitting that we are all flawed and that we need to learn from each other? And yet, still the hate, anger, insecurity and defensiveness.

It’s hard to carry on a debate when people have seemingly gotten so angered or annoyed with the message that they haven’t even taken the time to understand it, as evidenced by several replies that have absolutely nothing to do with the subject matter. And in some cases here, a message that could not have possibly even been applicable to them (read: jazz lovers).

On a discussion site that is filled everyday with pop fluff and pop dreaming, it should come as no shock that it just might be possible that the general theoretical response that started this thread might hold at least a sliver of truth for “some” people. Don’t you think?

Just as it would certainly be possible that over at a Herbie Hancock or Miles Davis discussion group that there might be “some” individuals who will immediately or almost immediately dismiss anything that shows any signs of accessibility or commercial sense. That kind of thinking is just as ignorant.

And ignorant is not a bad word (Dumb is, despite the huge sales of the “[insert topic] for Dummies” series of books). There are literally millions upon millions of areas of interest to apply your time to. Until we can live forever there is no way to be knowledgeable in all of these areas. Even limiting the subject matter to just music, no one has time to explore in-depth all the various types of musical styles and all the great music that has ever been created. We all must pick and choose that which we have time for in our busy lives. There’s no reason to get defensive if you have no time or interest in exploring jazz.

But the original thought still applies. If you aren’t pushing yourselves in new directions, you aren’t growing much.

Brendan

P.S. Can we have a debate now without all the defensiveness and insecurity?

Let’s rise above this nonsense that says if someone disagrees with me that this means that I’m not being allowed to express that I love or hate something. Whether someone likes something or not is their personal opinion at that time and place they’ve expressed it, and it cannot be debated. But if you post in a public forum why you think something is good or bad, you will likely be challenged. Don’t hide behind this, “everyone keeps attacking me because I love or hate something.”

People are challenging your reasoning, not your right to love or hate something.

It's just not a style of music that most people like.

"Interesting thread, I have spent some time reading through it all and I was convinced that, aside from the usual malcontents who always, ahem, tend to contribute to healthy intelligent debate in their own inimitable style, I did perceive that a few of the responses were truly sincere ("sincerity", of course, has never necessarily been a guarantee or indicated evidence of a mature outlook, but that's another matter entirely...).

Just like taste, there is no accounting for the lazy, off-hand "IMO" factor that too many people here tend to favour. It is my understanding that "IMO" will not enrich a particular debate for those of us who are yearning for intelligent debate, but woe betide any who disregard the "IMO" factor, for it is a sacred cow...mess with that and you're automatically undemocratic.

All of the above is merely an indication that people from an entire demographic, despite being fellow "orgers" (and therefore sharing at least some of your interests), they will ultimately be unable to truly enjoy a particular journey you have undertaken. Put quite simply: they are not fellow passengers of said journey in the first place. Their destination is some place else."

"Perhaps more explanation as to why a lot of quality posters left or stop posting much at this site. Constantly seeing nothing but 6th-grade type thinking flourish (“Prince sucks monkey balls and you must be some kind of fam if you don’t think so.”) while something that might actually start a real debate is banned.

It’s quite telling that so many people still don’t see that what you desire is nothing more than a healthy exchange of thoughts that will hopefully lead to enlightenment for all. Too often you just get defensive, insecure people responding in anger. But you keep moving forward. That’s a great strength you have. They attack with “utter bullshit” and you respond with reasoned coolness.

I kind of wish the Internet in its current form could have been around earlier because it has taken me from being a somewhat defensive person who didn’t want to share his creativity to someone who has very thick skin."

Why is anyone still continuing to make excuses for Prince's music?

Why do people who proclaim their love for practically anything he records (no matter how lousy it is), like to pretend like they belong to some elitist group of intellectuals??