EvilWhiteMale claims to be able to discuss his viewpoints on Prince in a mild-mannered, rational, intelligent way. However, he also appears to litter all his views with an agenda, to bring Prince fans to his truth that Prince is not worth listening to anymore. I suggest a debate to coldly discuss both sides of the subject.

I'll start the debate with EWM's most recent viewpoint on Prince. He states, 'I guarantee if you play TRC to the masses, they'll spit on it.' Before we tackle this viewpoint, would EWM care to expand?

(DJ Pejman, cue the music...)

Please note, I may call upon StinkyWeaselTeats, among many others, to testify.

I think something should be done about all the ridiculous orgers who post so much rubbish here. Yes, it's fine to express your opinion. That is anyone's right. Thing is, that doesn't change the fact that certain orgers talk crap.

Just because u can have an opinion doesn't mean it's at all worthwhile or even remotely valid.

Some people's opinion just count for more than others. Some orgers are, basically, inept.



mercy edit.
[This message was edited Sat Jul 26 0:24:22 PDT 2003 by nickandmon]

Sure, I'll expand.

The majority of music fans are not interested in the type of music that Prince is producing now. Even without major record deals, he should still be able to have a solid underground buzz over it. But as we all can see, his listeners are fading more and more every year.

Anji said:

'mild mannered, rational, intelligent'

A nice thought. The word that is more synonymous with the org is 'vitriol'.

p.s. who's EWM?

EvilWhiteMale said:

Can we really see this? What evidence do u have to support this, tucked up behind your computer, completely oblivious to the activities of other fans?

nickandmon said:

I think something should be done about all the ridiculous orgers who think everyone doesn't have a right to state their opinions: valid, worthwhile or not.

EvilWhiteMale said:

A few questions, Evil...

1. What are the majority of music fans interested in nowadays?
2. Do you believe The Rainbow Children album received any level of positive, critical, underground buzz?
3. Assuming Prince's fan base is dwindling, do you feel there is a 'problem' with this? And if so, what?

(DJ Pej, cue the music: Pop Life)

Just go out on the street and ask what people think of Prince. You know what the number one answer will be?

"I liked his 80's stuff. I don't like his new shit."

Either that or,

"Prince is still alive?"

stymie said:

ditto.

He's right. People do not give a damn about Prince. I'm the only person in my circle of friends and family that like his music. I know teenagers who have no clue as to who he is. Very few people are gonna get into a weird little man who hasn't been popular in over a decade. That, however, doesn't say anything about the quality of the music. It just means he can no longer be a pop star. Then again, he seems to have accepted that.
In fact I think Prince is going way underground, not the six feet variety but so far where most of his so-called diehards won't follow-- N.E.W.S. anyone? When and if he resurfaces it'll be like new; only it will be on his terms this time

EvilWhiteMale said:

Answer the three questions above your last post, Evil. That should reflect, in part, your values, and how these may differ from Prince's. It should also speak directly to the viewpoints that, as you correctly point out, are usually expressed by the public with regards whether he's relevant anymore, or even alive.

Anji said:

Anyway, feel free to ask more questions and I'll answer them tomorrow. I'm gonna get some sleep now. Thanks for thinking of me.

Evil, you didn't actually answer the most important question of the three above. Here it is again:

3. Assuming Prince's fan base is dwindling, do you feel there is a 'problem' with this? And if so, what?

stymie said:

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I'd love to live in your flowery, rainbow-coloured world. I'm not really bothered about people offering up erroneous opinions. I just want it to be understood that the right to have an opinion has no bearing on the validity of it. Some people are just inept. Their opinions don't count, at least for anything worthwhile anyway.

If we honestly believed that everyone's opinion counted equally we wouldn't listen to critics and experts about music, buying cars, painting ceilings, going to restaurants etc.

nickandmon said:

Dude, seriously, I don't listen to critics or experts: not to buy my car or which movie I should see or what restaurant I should eat at. Flowery, rainbow-coloured world? Have you even read any of my more than 2000 posts? But I do get the gist of your post: Your right to have an opinion has no bearing on the validity of it.

EvilWhiteMale said:

Okay, Evil. A few more perspectives...

1. You say you want to see him make amazing music to 'blow up the charts.' Does amazing music, in your opinion, sell heavily nowadays? If so, what?

2. If Prince is not making it in the charts, does that necessarily reflect the quality of his music? Or does that more reflect the values of the music-buying public? What are these values of the music-buying public, in your opinion? Would you describe any of their needs as 'intellectually complex'?

3. What are the personality traits of musical intellects, in your opinion? Do you think Prince falls into this category after being in the business for 25 years? Given these traits, do you think he is likely to want to succumb to the needs of the music-buying public anymore? Should he? Why?

4. Would you describe any of Prince's music on The Rainbow Children album, or N.E.W.S for that matter, as 'intellectual' or 'requiring effort'? Is that a good or a bad thing?

(DJ Pej, cue the music: Starfish & Coffee)

.
[This message was edited Sat Jul 26 1:29:05 PDT 2003 by Anji]

this is the mostg boring thread. stop it now and go to bed.

milty said:

You would be next but you wouldn't attract the crowds.

Anji said:

look's like Anji's got a little bit of bitch in him.

Anji--this thread is such a waste.

1. Prince doesn't need ANYONE defending him.

2. Why debate with someone who has an
agenda dictated in stone?

origmnd said:

You may be right, origmnd, but it's worth exploring.

1. This really has very little to do with Prince and much more to do with EvilWhiteMale
2. No-one's agenda can really be set in stone

Anji said:

---
I like what you are trying to do but, you are wasting your time with this guy.

He wants Prince to put out music that will blow up the charts. However, great music is not blowing up the charts.
The entire music industry is in the fucking hole.

The bottom line is that Prince went independent so he could do what he wanted when he wanted. If he was concerned about blowing up the charts he would record some Pop music and find some record company to put it out.

I do not see him making any effort to rejoin the mainstream. Therefore, he can't be interested in blowing up the charts.

In addtion, his popularity has gone down because most people hear new music on the radio. If you are not with a major record label your music is not going to be played on the radio.

Prince is also past the age of being able to appeal to teenagers and most Pop music is marketed to teenagers.

His popularity was going to fade irregardless of what happend with WB or what sort of music he put out.

Considering everything that he has done it is amazing that he can still sell out the 2,000 to 4,000.00 seat arenas

Anji said:

This guy's is--

singling folks out on the forum is a bit of a no-no.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

True dat. As much as some people don't want to hear what Evil has to say, he has every right to say it. Besides, it is possible he does it to get a rise out of some of you, and if that's why he's doing it, it obviously works.

nickandmon said:

How can an opinion be considered "erroneous" if that's how the person really feels? And how can you honestly say that some opinions don't count,or claim that a person is "inept" just because you don't agree with them?

Not trying to start anything with you,because I really do think this is a great discussion (props to Anji).I just don't see how some opinions can be easily dismissed or deemed not "valid" just because you don't agree with it.

now i see what u mean evil about "cats jumpin on yr ass"



go evil!



tell it like it is.

laurarichardson said:

Prince went indepenent in the late 90's with releases like NPS and then he tried to make a album and release it with a major label and it didn't work (500,000 worldwide sales) so don't tell me that Prince doesn't want to be mainstream...it's just that he can't.

I have a magazine article where Prince says, "I hope Rave sells more copies then Purple Rain because I obviously want my music to be heard my as many people as possible."

So those of you who believe that in 3 short years Prince has completely changed his mind; you are nuts. Prince had no choice but to change his mind because after RAVE no major label will touch him with a 10 foot pole.

By the way Anji, it makes you look like a prick to single someone out with a topic telling him that his opinion is invalid.

Lovemachine, I haven't once suggested EWM's opinion is invalid. At least, not yet. I am, however, suggesting that his opinions are based on his own values (which are entirely different from Prince's). Thus, there is a conflict of interests that will unlikely be resolved and EWM will continue to be frustrated with Prince. Perhaps you should read the thread again.