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Thread started 07/16/03 11:29pm

Anji

"N*E*W*S" in Review

In his own words, "Perhaps at a later date I'll write something that is more formal and more "balanced". But for now this reflects where my mind was at on a wonderful Sunday afternoon back on June 22nd when "N*E*W*S" quite unexpectedly, almost out of nowhere, hit me, and hit me hard."
What follows is a hybrid of sorts; part review, part listing of my favorite musical moments, part general observations, part thinking out loud as to the possible story locked inside this musical work. And it seems somewhat logical to do it this way, as this album sounds like a hybrid of live improvisational jamming on loosely sketched-out blueprints and after-the-event studio wizardry that brought it all into a cohesive, deliberate, mostly premeditated whole.

“North” Highlights and Musings:

1) I like its overall unforced, serious-but-laid-back, organic charm.

2) So smooth and chilled out that it makes for the perfect antithetical complement to the album’s feverish closer.

3) It feels spot on at nearly 14 minutes. Not like a 4-minute track stretched out beyond purpose, or even 3 or 4 pieces molded together like we’ll hear later.

4) The near flawless nature of the composition that seamlessly melds the worlds of jazz, ambient, funk and rock. This is a very original piece that beautifully preps the vibe for what’s to follow. There are certainly traces of “North” in past Prince music, but he’s never been this successful or natural in pulling it all off.

5) The little quirks that are added here and there, like being able to hear the clacking of Eric Leeds’ sax keys at one point.

6) The train-whistle synths at 1:00 that signal the oncoming sax.

7) The way the conflictive sounds of the mystical strings and the gravel-throated guitar intertwine at 3:10.

8 ) The anguished guitar that peeks and pokes about before becoming “North’s” stunning centerpiece at 6:19.

9) The calming piano at 8:58 that caresses us back to health after the onslaught of melancholy.

10) Leeds’ sweetly coaxed butterfly sax notes at 11:38 that appear to give rise to the north wind.

11) The barren north winds that blow us out of the experience. A cry from a whale or a wolf can be heard in the distance at 12:43 and again at 13:14. It feels cold and lonely here. Snow blowing, causing a whiteout. Waves crashing against the icy shore. We long for some warmth, energy, neighbors, kinship.

“East” Highlights and Musings:

1) The musical changes and transitions, the challenge, the complexity and the experimental vibe of the entire piece. Nothing Prince had done previously -- outside of perhaps the avant-garde “Cutz” from “Kamasutra” -- could have prepared you properly for this.

2) The “steel-drum” sound that eventually persuades the snake-charming flute out of its comfort zone. Are the natives being seduced out of their homeland?

3) The drum breakdown that foretells of building strife.

4) The angered metal guitar thrusts like that of a powerful army surging forward to stomp out rebellion, matched by oriental key figures that build in fervency and incite anxious, circling, hornet’s-nest guitar, and a sax that answers in kind. The pieces most troubling, most hostile, most intense moment. Colonialism pushing eastward? Communism forcing its hand in China and southeast Asia? Perhaps just the general and constant unrest in the region?

5) The nice transition from the powerful entangled sounds of west-meets-east-without-an-invite through the use of funk guitar that leads us straight into a wall of modern jazz, and later fusion with intensified sax that’s matched by gurgling organ and more funky guitar.

6) The irresistible combination of chicken-scratch guitar at 10:03 and the deeply funky baritone sax that it conjures.

7) Perhaps the sounds of the last gasps of a once great army’s influence slowly being deflated at 11:07. Listen in particular to the sounds at 12:02, that’s the same aggressive rock surges heard earlier. But this time they come across as weakened and in retreat. Is this the resistance giving out or the occupying force?

8 ) The standup electric double bass solo that stirs memories of the middle-marker breakdown in John Coltrane’s “A Love Supreme”. The aftermath of war? Digging out from under foreign rule?

9) Bringing the piece to a sober place of mourning with only the sad, lonely strings of the sitar. Perhaps grieving the current war-torn nations of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Israel/Palestine, to name but a few?

“West” Highlights and Musings:

1) The opening 3:30 that nearly packs the aching, bittersweet beauty of “Purple Rain” or “Just My Imagination”. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to hear this turn up on a future project as a fully structured gospel/blues/rock/soul anthem.

2) After the harsh complexity of “East”, starting the “West” off in a more soulful and accessible direction seems just what the doctor ordered.

3) At 3:58 is that Columbus and his boys that can be heard sailing west in search of riches or the slave ships bringing over the human riches that will build much of the west?

4) The striding and soulful neo-Madhouse groove that is the “West’s” mid-section, delivering a strong sense of purposeful adventure. It feels as if we’re on a journey into the unknown, yet still confident and hopeful of what lies ahead.

5) Eric stepping proudly forward at 7:36 and delivering a statement funky enough to inspire a hip-hopper who has never even cracked a jazz album.

6) The way in which at 8:31 the groove immediately turns deadly serious with the introduction of Prince’s shrieking guitar that later gets squeezed out urgently in energetic licks of stinging pain until the whole piece slows down and settles in a dark place of utter depravity. Is this the slavery era in America and some of its aftermath? This section just shreds the soul. It’s like you’re being chained and whipped. One of the most starkly poignant passages in Prince history.

7) You almost get lost in each piece but there is always something at the end to snap you back to reality. On “West” it’s the drum rolls and sitar strings that signify the passing of another time and space. It feels as though we’ve mined everything we can out of this experience and so we knowingly shift our attitudes towards one of parting. But you can’t help but feel a great weight and regret for that which has passed as we roll onward to the pieces final movement.

“South” Highlights and Musings:

1) Is that the Mothership landing on the “South” (or perhaps Prince’s version of Parliament’s Mothership, a whale with it’s soothing, discerning, cognitively omnipotent sounding cries, howls, whistles and songs), sent to deliver the enslaved from pain through the healing and understanding power of music? This could perhaps signify the staggering contribution to 20th century music of Black Americans that came directly out of the pain of hundreds of years of slavery. Music that has been and will be helping people of all races, cultures and creeds in good times and in bad for hundreds of years to come. Perhaps there’ll never be another artistic period so astonishing as the one which saw the creation of jazz, blues, R&B, soul, funk, disco/dance and rap, with huge contributions in gospel, rock & roll and eventually a majority holding on that which becomes pop.

2) It’s almost as if the Mothership is sending a perceptive beam of inspirational energy directly to Rhonda’s bass, moving her fingers to the fore with a bass line that sets the tone for perhaps the funkiest moment of our entire journey.

3) The section of long lament that is encouraged by the still fluttering Mothership. Could this signify the brutally prolonged struggle from 2/3rds human status to equality? And this too shall pass.

4) About 8:44 when the piano enters and the slow, mournful dirge starts to deliberately build into modern jazz ecstasy, eventually made climactic with the inclusion of dueling other-worldly guitar and sax exhalations at 10:00 that reach Charlie Parker-like spirituality. This just might be the album’s watermark. Upon first listen I was disappointed that Prince did not go completely interstellar on guitar. But upon further reflection of the piece as a whole, the explosion is perhaps tempered properly at just beneath boil until complete freedom and equality is a reality for all (North, East, West, and South).

5) The moody and bittersweet strings encountered at 12:00 that softly move us toward closure on waves of breathtaking emotion.

6) The piano that offers a solemn serenade to the purring Mothership poised for liftoff (or decent back into the hidden depths of the ocean). We’ve come a long way. We have a long way to go. Can we all come together or will we continue to fight and hate? Is this the end or merely the beginning of a whole new era?

General Highlights and Musings:

1) The most amazing overall impression I get from listening to this album is that Prince has finally found his natural instrumental voice. And the result is a wonderful fusion of all that he was and all that was before him. It’s no longer like, “Oh, listen to the amazing ability of the rock/pop/soul man trying his hand at new things. Isn’t that nice and different and good for a rock/pop/soul man?” Now it’s like, “Oh, this makes complete sense.”

2) Perhaps this project was inspired in part by Prince jamming with his band on his last tour (see: “Tokyo”, “Copenhagen”, “Nagoya” and “Osaka”.)

3) There are many wonderfully toned keyboard synths scattered throughout this work. Think 70’s soul with a 21st century freshness.

4) The production is so right on that even the sound effects come across as purposeful. None of that plastic quality that has at times tainted Prince’s sound.

5) I like the silence at the end of each track that acts as a palette cleanser before each new taste.

6) A couple of the transitions – especially the first one out “West” -- are not as wonderfully inspired as the pieces they connect. But that flaw diminishes somewhat with familiarity.

7) A very visual/cinematic work. I can see a interpretive dance piece being produced for this music. And of course it would include Prince, his band and a string section laying low and playing live in the orchestra pit.

8 ) Defies categorization. To call “N*E*W*S” jazz is no more accurate than calling “SOTT” funk. There is truth in both labels. But there is also great disservice.

9) No doubt a terrifically talented quintet of world-class musicians. Everyone of the five players gets their time to stretch and shine. But Prince and Eric are most definitely the show. If Eric’s part was mostly his own voice -- and I suspect that it was -- this is a strong candidate for the greatest contribution/collaboration to a Prince project ever.

10) There are many small details scattered throughout that keep the experience richly rewarding. And the journey is a diverse one, allowing for plenty of time to think, plenty of time to relax, plenty of time to fret, plenty of time to groove, plenty of time to regret, plenty of time to expect, plenty of time to feel, plenty of time to hurt, and plenty of time to heal. And as is true almost always with Prince, no matter how angered, troubled, depressed or stressed the music gets, he always finds a way to end it with some level of hope and resolution.

Summation:

“N*E*W*S.” is a mature, nuanced, progressive, exhilarating work of art. Many years from now it perhaps gets viewed as the stunning achievement that it is relative to Prince’s oeuvre; or at the very least, the path that led Prince into territory that kept him an important voice in music well into his seventies.

Brendan
Anyone wanna hear the new Prince album?! bow

UPDATED REVIEW.
[This message was edited Mon Jul 21 15:08:37 PDT 2003 by Anji]
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Reply #1 posted 07/17/03 12:37am

abierman

with all the respect Anji, these overlong posts are annoying...but thanks anyway. I like 'North' best, 'nuff said.
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Reply #2 posted 07/17/03 1:20am

frankjotzo

Anji said:

In his own words, "Perhaps at a later date I'll write something that is more formal and more "balanced". But for now this reflects where my mind was at on a wonderful Sunday afternoon back on June 22nd when "N*E*W*S" quite unexpectedly, almost out of nowhere, hit me, and hit me hard."
What follows is a hybrid of sorts; part review, part listing of my favorite musical moments, part general observations, part thinking out loud as to the possible story locked inside this musical work. And it seems somewhat logical to do it this way, as this album sounds like a hybrid of live improvisational jamming on loosely-sketched out blueprints and after-the-event studio wizardry that brought it all into a cohesive, deliberate, mostly premeditated whole.

“North” Highlights and Musings:

1) I like its overall unforced, serious-but-laid-back, organic charm.
2) So smooth and chilled out that it makes for the perfect antithetical complement to the album’s feverish closer.
3) It feels spot on at nearly 14 minutes. Not like a 4-minute track stretched out beyond purpose, or even 3 or 4 pieces molded together like we’ll hear later.
4) The near flawless nature of the composition that seamlessly melds the worlds of jazz, ambient, funk and rock. This is a very original piece that beautifully preps the vibe for what’s to follow. There are certainly traces of “North” in past Prince music, but he’s never been this successful or natural in pulling it all off.
5) The little quirks that are added here and there, like being able to hear the clacking of Eric Leeds’ sax keys at one point.
6) The train-whistle synths at 1:00 that signal the oncoming sax.
7) The way the conflictive sounds of the mystical strings and the gravel-throated guitar intertwine at 3:10.
8 ) The anguished guitar that peeks and pokes about before becoming “North’s” stunning centerpiece at 6:20.
9) The way the piano at 8:58 caresses us back into an eased state after an onslaught of melancholy.
10) Leeds’ sweetly coaxed butterfly sax notes at 11:40 that appear to give rise to the north wind.
11) The barren north winds that blow us out of the experience. A cry from a whale or a wolf can be heard in the distance at 12:43. It feels cold and lonely here. Snow blowing so hard that it’s causing a whiteout. We long for some warmth, some energy, some neighbors, kinship.

“East” Highlights and Musings:

1) The musical changes and transitions, the challenge, the complexity and the experimental vibe of the entire piece. Nothing Prince had done previously -- outside of perhaps the avant-garde “Cutz” from “Kamasutra” -- could have prepared you for this.
2) The “steel-drum” sound that eventually persuades the snake-charming flute synth out of its comfort zone. Are the natives being seduced out of their homeland?
3) The drum breakdown that foretells of building strife marching ever closer.
4) The angered metal guitar thrusts like that of a powerful army surging forward to stomp out rebellion, matched by oriental key figures that build in fervency and incite anxious, circling, hornet’s-nest guitar, and a sax that answers in kind. The pieces most troubling, most hostile, most intense moment. Colonialism pushing eastward? Communism forcing its hand in China and southeast Asia? Perhaps just the general and constant unrest in the region?
5) The nice transition from the powerful entangled sounds of west-meets-east-without-an-invite through the use of funk guitar that leads us straight into a wall of modern jazz, and later fusion with intensified sax that’s matched by gurgling organ and more funky guitar.
6) The irresistible combination of chicken-scratch guitar at 10:03 and the deeply funky baritone sax that follows.
7) Perhaps the sounds of the last gasps of a once great army’s influence slowly being deflated at 11:07. Listen in particular to the sounds at 12:00, that’s the same aggressive rock surges heard earlier. But this time they come across as weakened and in retreat. Is this the resistance giving out or the occupying force?
8 ) The standup electric double bass solo that stirs memories of the middle-marker breakdown in John Coltrane’s “A Love Supreme”.
9) Bringing the piece to a sober place of mourning with only the sad, lonely strings of the sitar. Perhaps grieving the current war-torn nations of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Israel/Palestine, to name but a few?

“West” Highlights and Musings:

1) The opening 3:30 that nearly packs the aching, bittersweet beauty of “Purple Rain” or “Just My Imagination”. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to hear this turn up on a future project as a fully structured gospel/blues/rock/soul anthem.
2) After the harsh complexity of “East”, starting the “West” off in a more soulful and accessible direction seems just what the doctor ordered.
3) At 3:58 is that Columbus and his boys that can be heard sailing west in search of riches or the slave ships bringing over the human riches that will build much of the west?
4) The striding and soulful neo-Madhouse groove that is the “West’s” mid-section, delivering a strong sense of purposeful adventure. It feels as if we’re on a journey into the unknown, yet still confident and hopeful of what lies ahead.
5) Eric stepping confidently forward at 7:36 and delivering a statement funky enough to inspire a hip-hopper who has never even cracked a jazz album.
6) The way in which at 8:31 the groove immediately turns deadly serious with the introduction of Prince’s shrieking guitar that later gets squeezed out urgently in energetic licks of stinging pain until the whole piece slows down and settles in a dark place of depravity and depression. Is this the slavery era in America and some of its aftermath? This section just shreds the soul. It’s like you’re being chained and whipped. One of the most starkly beautiful passages in Prince history.
7) You almost get lost in each piece but there is always something at the end to snap you back to reality. On “West” it’s the drum rolls and sitar strings that signify the passing of another time and space. It feels as though we’ve mined everything we can out of this experience and so we knowingly shift our attitudes towards one of parting. But you can’t help but feel a great weight and regret for that which has passed as we roll onward to the pieces final movement.

“South” Highlights and Musings:

1) Is that the Mothership landing on the “South” (or perhaps Prince’s version of Parliament’s Mothership, a whale with it’s soothing, discerning, cognitively omnipotent sounding cries, howls, whistles and songs), sent to deliver the enslaved from pain through the healing and understanding power of music? This could perhaps signify the staggering contribution to 20th century music of Black Americans that came directly out of the pain of hundreds of years of slavery. Music that has been and will be helping people of all races, cultures and creeds in good times and in bad for hundreds of years to come. Perhaps there’ll never be another artistic period so astonishing as the one which saw the creation of jazz, blues, R&B, soul, funk, disco/dance and rap, with huge contributions in gospel, rock & roll and eventually a majority holding on that which becomes pop.
2) It’s almost as if the Mothership is sending a perceptive beam of inspirational energy directly to Rhonda’s bass, moving her fingers to the fore with a bass line that sets the tone for perhaps the funkiest moment of our entire journey.
3) The section of long lament that makes up the mid-section of “South” and is encouraged by the still fluttering Mothership. And this too shall pass.
4) About 8:44 when the piano enters and the slow, mournful dirge of a breakdown starts to deliberately build into modern jazz ecstasy, eventually made climactic with the inclusion of dueling other-worldly guitar and sax exhalations at 10:00 that reach Charlie Parker-like spirituality. This just might be the album’s watermark. Upon first listen I was disappointed that Prince didn’t go completely interstellar on guitar. But upon further reflection of the piece as a whole, the explosion is perhaps properly tempered at just beneath boil until complete freedom and equality is a reality for all (North, East, West, and South).
5) The moody and bittersweet strings encountered at 12:00 that softly move us toward closure on waves of breathtaking emotion.
6) The piano that offers a solemn serenade to the purring Mothership poised for liftoff (or decent back into the hidden depths of the ocean). Can we all come together or will we continue to fight and hate? Is this the end or merely the beginning of a whole new era?

General Highlights and Musings:

1) The most amazing overall impression I get from listening to this album is that Prince has finally found his natural instrumental voice. And the result is a wonderful fusion of all that he was and all that was before him. It’s no longer like, “Oh, listen to the amazing ability of the rock/pop/soul man trying his hand at new things. Isn’t that nice and different and good for a rock/pop/soul man?” Now it’s like, “Oh, this makes complete sense.”
2) Perhaps this project was inspired in part by Prince jamming with his band on his last tour (see: “Tokyo”, “Copenhagen”, “Nagoya” and “Osaka”.)
3) I like the silence at the end of each track that acts as a palette cleanser before each new taste.
4) A couple of the transitions are not as spectacular as you might hope for with music of this quality. But that flaw diminishes somewhat with familiarity.
5) A very visual/cinematic work. I can see a interpretive dance piece being produced for this music. And of course it would include Prince, his band and a string section laying low and playing live in the orchestra pit.
6) Defies categorization. To call “N*E*W*S” jazz is no more accurate than calling “SOTT” funk. There is truth in both labels. But there is also great disservice.
7) No doubt a terrifically talented quintet of world-class musicians. Everyone of the five players gets their time to stretch and shine. But Prince and Eric are most definitely the show. If Eric’s part was mostly his own voice -- and I suspect that it was -- this is a strong candidate for the greatest contribution/collaboration to a Prince project ever.
8 ) There are many small details scattered throughout that keep the experience richly rewarding. And the journey is a diverse one, allowing for plenty of time to think, plenty of time to relax, plenty of time to fret, plenty of time to groove, plenty of time to regret, plenty of time to expect, plenty of time to feel, plenty of time to hurt, and plenty of time to heal. And as is true almost always with Prince, no matter how angered, troubled, depressed or stressed the music gets, he always finds a way to end it with some degree of hope and resolution.

Summation:

“N*E*W*S.” is a mature, nuanced, progressive, exhilarating work of art. Many years from now it perhaps gets viewed as the “stunning achievement” that it is relative to Prince’s oeuvre; or at the very least, the path that led Prince into territory that’ll keep him an important voice in music for another 25 years.

And all that it needs is a listener willing to put in the time required to learn the music. That’s the thing about challenging music. You don’t get instant gratification. But the payoff is every bit as good as the hook in a great pop song for the patient listener. And once you get your mind wrapped around this one, it just might not let go.

Brendan
Anyone wanna hear the new Prince album?! bow



Phew! Thanks Anji. Glad you like NEWS sooo much. I still think it sucks and chokes on a big one.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #3 posted 07/17/03 1:47am

prinssi

avatar

abierman said:

with all the respect Anji, these overlong posts are annoying...


I couldn't DISAGREE more. Great post again Anji! I havent got NEWS yet, but am really waiting for it!
********************************************
Phantom, rough on roughnecks... Old Jungle Saying
********************************************
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Reply #4 posted 07/17/03 1:52am

garganta

Great post Anji! Very well written also

N.E.W.S is a great album, I have been saying so in quite a few threads already
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Reply #5 posted 07/17/03 2:18am

winterman

thanks Anji
this cd is one of his best i think
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Reply #6 posted 07/17/03 3:17am

Sly

avatar

abierman said:

with all the respect Anji, these overlong posts are annoying...but thanks anyway. I like 'North' best, 'nuff said.


You don't have to read the posts.
"London, i've adopted a name that has no pronounciation.... is that cool with you?"

"YEAH!!!"

"Yeah, well then fuck those other fools!"
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Reply #7 posted 07/17/03 3:35am

Romance1600

avatar

Great post Anji smile

When/where did Prince say that quote at the beginning of your post?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm a sucker for a major chord
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Reply #8 posted 07/17/03 4:02am

fairmoan

As I understand it this is a review by Brendan that Anji has kindly passed on. And many thanks for that. Why did Brendan not post this himself, if I may ask?
[This message was edited Thu Jul 17 4:02:28 PDT 2003 by fairmoan]
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Reply #9 posted 07/17/03 11:11am

Anji

fairmoan said:

As I understand it this is a review by Brendan that Anji has kindly passed on. And many thanks for that. Why did Brendan not post this himself, if I may ask?
Yep, this was written by Brendan. He doesn't tend to post here anymore so I asked him whether I could share it with y'all. I'm glad some of you enjoyed reading it! I've yet to hear N.E.W.S. myself, so this was exactly the kind of review I've been waiting for. Thanks again, Brendan.

smile
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Reply #10 posted 07/17/03 12:39pm

slm4m

prinssi said:

abierman said:

with all the respect Anji, these overlong posts are annoying...


I couldn't DISAGREE more. Great post again Anji! I havent got NEWS yet, but am really waiting for it!



Me too, ME TOO
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Reply #11 posted 07/17/03 12:57pm

antoon

avatar

Thanx Anji!
This is the mother of all reviews.

On the other hand, I've read many interesting views and interpretations on NEWS. This new cd really begs for philosphical reflection, apparently.
555-4444 you're on coffee talk.
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Reply #12 posted 07/17/03 1:47pm

mcmeekle

frankjotzo said:

Brendan said:

What follows is a hybrid of sorts; part review, part listing of my favorite musical moments, part general observations, part thinking out loud as to the possible story locked inside this musical work. And it seems somewhat logical to do it this way, as this album sounds like a hybrid of live improvisational jamming on loosely-sketched out blueprints and after-the-event studio wizardry that brought it all into a cohesive, deliberate, mostly premeditated whole.

“North” Highlights and Musings:

1) I like its overall unforced, serious-but-laid-back, organic charm.
2) So smooth and chilled out that it makes for the perfect antithetical complement to the album’s feverish closer.
3) It feels spot on at nearly 14 minutes. Not like a 4-minute track stretched out beyond purpose, or even 3 or 4 pieces molded together like we’ll hear later.
4) The near flawless nature of the composition that seamlessly melds the worlds of jazz, ambient, funk and rock. This is a very original piece that beautifully preps the vibe for what’s to follow. There are certainly traces of “North” in past Prince music, but he’s never been this successful or natural in pulling it all off.
5) The little quirks that are added here and there, like being able to hear the clacking of Eric Leeds’ sax keys at one point.
6) The train-whistle synths at 1:00 that signal the oncoming sax.
7) The way the conflictive sounds of the mystical strings and the gravel-throated guitar intertwine at 3:10.
8 ) The anguished guitar that peeks and pokes about before becoming “North’s” stunning centerpiece at 6:20.
9) The way the piano at 8:58 caresses us back into an eased state after an onslaught of melancholy.
10) Leeds’ sweetly coaxed butterfly sax notes at 11:40 that appear to give rise to the north wind.
11) The barren north winds that blow us out of the experience. A cry from a whale or a wolf can be heard in the distance at 12:43. It feels cold and lonely here. Snow blowing so hard that it’s causing a whiteout. We long for some warmth, some energy, some neighbors, kinship.

“East” Highlights and Musings:

1) The musical changes and transitions, the challenge, the complexity and the experimental vibe of the entire piece. Nothing Prince had done previously -- outside of perhaps the avant-garde “Cutz” from “Kamasutra” -- could have prepared you for this.
2) The “steel-drum” sound that eventually persuades the snake-charming flute synth out of its comfort zone. Are the natives being seduced out of their homeland?
3) The drum breakdown that foretells of building strife marching ever closer.
4) The angered metal guitar thrusts like that of a powerful army surging forward to stomp out rebellion, matched by oriental key figures that build in fervency and incite anxious, circling, hornet’s-nest guitar, and a sax that answers in kind. The pieces most troubling, most hostile, most intense moment. Colonialism pushing eastward? Communism forcing its hand in China and southeast Asia? Perhaps just the general and constant unrest in the region?
5) The nice transition from the powerful entangled sounds of west-meets-east-without-an-invite through the use of funk guitar that leads us straight into a wall of modern jazz, and later fusion with intensified sax that’s matched by gurgling organ and more funky guitar.
6) The irresistible combination of chicken-scratch guitar at 10:03 and the deeply funky baritone sax that follows.
7) Perhaps the sounds of the last gasps of a once great army’s influence slowly being deflated at 11:07. Listen in particular to the sounds at 12:00, that’s the same aggressive rock surges heard earlier. But this time they come across as weakened and in retreat. Is this the resistance giving out or the occupying force?
8 ) The standup electric double bass solo that stirs memories of the middle-marker breakdown in John Coltrane’s “A Love Supreme”.
9) Bringing the piece to a sober place of mourning with only the sad, lonely strings of the sitar. Perhaps grieving the current war-torn nations of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Israel/Palestine, to name but a few?

“West” Highlights and Musings:

1) The opening 3:30 that nearly packs the aching, bittersweet beauty of “Purple Rain” or “Just My Imagination”. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to hear this turn up on a future project as a fully structured gospel/blues/rock/soul anthem.
2) After the harsh complexity of “East”, starting the “West” off in a more soulful and accessible direction seems just what the doctor ordered.
3) At 3:58 is that Columbus and his boys that can be heard sailing west in search of riches or the slave ships bringing over the human riches that will build much of the west?
4) The striding and soulful neo-Madhouse groove that is the “West’s” mid-section, delivering a strong sense of purposeful adventure. It feels as if we’re on a journey into the unknown, yet still confident and hopeful of what lies ahead.
5) Eric stepping confidently forward at 7:36 and delivering a statement funky enough to inspire a hip-hopper who has never even cracked a jazz album.
6) The way in which at 8:31 the groove immediately turns deadly serious with the introduction of Prince’s shrieking guitar that later gets squeezed out urgently in energetic licks of stinging pain until the whole piece slows down and settles in a dark place of depravity and depression. Is this the slavery era in America and some of its aftermath? This section just shreds the soul. It’s like you’re being chained and whipped. One of the most starkly beautiful passages in Prince history.
7) You almost get lost in each piece but there is always something at the end to snap you back to reality. On “West” it’s the drum rolls and sitar strings that signify the passing of another time and space. It feels as though we’ve mined everything we can out of this experience and so we knowingly shift our attitudes towards one of parting. But you can’t help but feel a great weight and regret for that which has passed as we roll onward to the pieces final movement.

“South” Highlights and Musings:

1) Is that the Mothership landing on the “South” (or perhaps Prince’s version of Parliament’s Mothership, a whale with it’s soothing, discerning, cognitively omnipotent sounding cries, howls, whistles and songs), sent to deliver the enslaved from pain through the healing and understanding power of music? This could perhaps signify the staggering contribution to 20th century music of Black Americans that came directly out of the pain of hundreds of years of slavery. Music that has been and will be helping people of all races, cultures and creeds in good times and in bad for hundreds of years to come. Perhaps there’ll never be another artistic period so astonishing as the one which saw the creation of jazz, blues, R&B, soul, funk, disco/dance and rap, with huge contributions in gospel, rock & roll and eventually a majority holding on that which becomes pop.
2) It’s almost as if the Mothership is sending a perceptive beam of inspirational energy directly to Rhonda’s bass, moving her fingers to the fore with a bass line that sets the tone for perhaps the funkiest moment of our entire journey.
3) The section of long lament that makes up the mid-section of “South” and is encouraged by the still fluttering Mothership. And this too shall pass.
4) About 8:44 when the piano enters and the slow, mournful dirge of a breakdown starts to deliberately build into modern jazz ecstasy, eventually made climactic with the inclusion of dueling other-worldly guitar and sax exhalations at 10:00 that reach Charlie Parker-like spirituality. This just might be the album’s watermark. Upon first listen I was disappointed that Prince didn’t go completely interstellar on guitar. But upon further reflection of the piece as a whole, the explosion is perhaps properly tempered at just beneath boil until complete freedom and equality is a reality for all (North, East, West, and South).
5) The moody and bittersweet strings encountered at 12:00 that softly move us toward closure on waves of breathtaking emotion.
6) The piano that offers a solemn serenade to the purring Mothership poised for liftoff (or decent back into the hidden depths of the ocean). Can we all come together or will we continue to fight and hate? Is this the end or merely the beginning of a whole new era?

General Highlights and Musings:

1) The most amazing overall impression I get from listening to this album is that Prince has finally found his natural instrumental voice. And the result is a wonderful fusion of all that he was and all that was before him. It’s no longer like, “Oh, listen to the amazing ability of the rock/pop/soul man trying his hand at new things. Isn’t that nice and different and good for a rock/pop/soul man?” Now it’s like, “Oh, this makes complete sense.”
2) Perhaps this project was inspired in part by Prince jamming with his band on his last tour (see: “Tokyo”, “Copenhagen”, “Nagoya” and “Osaka”.)
3) I like the silence at the end of each track that acts as a palette cleanser before each new taste.
4) A couple of the transitions are not as spectacular as you might hope for with music of this quality. But that flaw diminishes somewhat with familiarity.
5) A very visual/cinematic work. I can see a interpretive dance piece being produced for this music. And of course it would include Prince, his band and a string section laying low and playing live in the orchestra pit.
6) Defies categorization. To call “N*E*W*S” jazz is no more accurate than calling “SOTT” funk. There is truth in both labels. But there is also great disservice.
7) No doubt a terrifically talented quintet of world-class musicians. Everyone of the five players gets their time to stretch and shine. But Prince and Eric are most definitely the show. If Eric’s part was mostly his own voice -- and I suspect that it was -- this is a strong candidate for the greatest contribution/collaboration to a Prince project ever.
8 ) There are many small details scattered throughout that keep the experience richly rewarding. And the journey is a diverse one, allowing for plenty of time to think, plenty of time to relax, plenty of time to fret, plenty of time to groove, plenty of time to regret, plenty of time to expect, plenty of time to feel, plenty of time to hurt, and plenty of time to heal. And as is true almost always with Prince, no matter how angered, troubled, depressed or stressed the music gets, he always finds a way to end it with some degree of hope and resolution.

Summation:

“N*E*W*S.” is a mature, nuanced, progressive, exhilarating work of art. Many years from now it perhaps gets viewed as the “stunning achievement” that it is relative to Prince’s oeuvre; or at the very least, the path that led Prince into territory that’ll keep him an important voice in music for another 25 years.

And all that it needs is a listener willing to put in the time required to learn the music. That’s the thing about challenging music. You don’t get instant gratification. But the payoff is every bit as good as the hook in a great pop song for the patient listener. And once you get your mind wrapped around this one, it just might not let go.

Brendan

...I still think it sucks and chokes on a big one.

smile
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Reply #13 posted 07/17/03 2:18pm

papabeat

Thanks for the detailed post. You obviously enjoy the album and have taken away many rewards from the experience. It also forced me to listen to it differently. I still don't like it, but I was hearing things I hadn't before.

That’s the thing about challenging music. You don’t get instant gratification.


However, that's crap. Music is like time - it's here, and then it's gone. It's ALL about instant gratification. You mentioned "A Love Supreme," which is challenging, yet also immediately supremely gratifying. Same with Miles's "Bitches Brew." If it's not hitting you as you're listening to it, something's wrong. Not with the music, per se, (maybe something's wrong with the listener) but with the connection between music and listener.
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Reply #14 posted 07/17/03 3:07pm

Rumpofsteelski
n

papabeat said:

Thanks for the detailed post. You obviously enjoy the album and have taken away many rewards from the experience. It also forced me to listen to it differently. I still don't like it, but I was hearing things I hadn't before.

That’s the thing about challenging music. You don’t get instant gratification.


However, that's crap. Music is like time - it's here, and then it's gone. It's ALL about instant gratification. You mentioned "A Love Supreme," which is challenging, yet also immediately supremely gratifying. Same with Miles's "Bitches Brew." If it's not hitting you as you're listening to it, something's wrong. Not with the music, per se, (maybe something's wrong with the listener) but with the connection between music and listener.



On the contrary, Miles was met with masssive resistence with critics and fans during his "bitches-on the corner" period. Downbeat (the Source magazine of the jazz world) gave BB a @@ reveiw and called it everything but a piece of pretentious shit.
Some twenty years later they wrote an apology letter and redid the review and added the extra 3 stars.

Not, saying this will be the case with NEWS because only time is gonna tell if this holds up so...let's see if this album will come to light.
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Reply #15 posted 07/17/03 4:02pm

TonyWilliams

Rumpofsteelskin said:

papabeat said:

Thanks for the detailed post. You obviously enjoy the album and have taken away many rewards from the experience. It also forced me to listen to it differently. I still don't like it, but I was hearing things I hadn't before.

That’s the thing about challenging music. You don’t get instant gratification.


However, that's crap. Music is like time - it's here, and then it's gone. It's ALL about instant gratification. You mentioned "A Love Supreme," which is challenging, yet also immediately supremely gratifying. Same with Miles's "Bitches Brew." If it's not hitting you as you're listening to it, something's wrong. Not with the music, per se, (maybe something's wrong with the listener) but with the connection between music and listener.



On the contrary, Miles was met with masssive resistence with critics and fans during his "bitches-on the corner" period. Downbeat (the Source magazine of the jazz world) gave BB a @@ reveiw and called it everything but a piece of pretentious shit.
Some twenty years later they wrote an apology letter and redid the review and added the extra 3 stars.

Not, saying this will be the case with NEWS because only time is gonna tell if this holds up so...let's see if this album will come to light.




aaah. excellent. you are truly educated in the history
of music. we need more people like you(i am sorry).
excellent. wonderful. i appreciate your words and your knowledge. i just watched a miles tape from 1972.
it must be fate that i ...that i read your post now.
thanks man, and keep goin`.
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Reply #16 posted 07/17/03 4:43pm

starr

WOW! Play it again, Sam...

Great review!
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Reply #17 posted 07/17/03 4:43pm

papabeat

Rumpofsteelskin said:

papabeat said:

Thanks for the detailed post. You obviously enjoy the album and have taken away many rewards from the experience. It also forced me to listen to it differently. I still don't like it, but I was hearing things I hadn't before.

That’s the thing about challenging music. You don’t get instant gratification.


However, that's crap. Music is like time - it's here, and then it's gone. It's ALL about instant gratification. You mentioned "A Love Supreme," which is challenging, yet also immediately supremely gratifying. Same with Miles's "Bitches Brew." If it's not hitting you as you're listening to it, something's wrong. Not with the music, per se, (maybe something's wrong with the listener) but with the connection between music and listener.


On the contrary, Miles was met with masssive resistence with critics and fans during his "bitches-on the corner" period. Downbeat (the Source magazine of the jazz world) gave BB a @@ reveiw and called it everything but a piece of pretentious shit.
Some twenty years later they wrote an apology letter and redid the review and added the extra 3 stars.

Not, saying this will be the case with NEWS because only time is gonna tell if this holds up so...let's see if this album will come to light.


No, on the contrary yourself. While it may have received a negative review by the ONE critic who wrote the review, Bitches Brew nonetheless won the 1970 Down Beat Critics Poll for Jazz Album of the Year.
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Reply #18 posted 07/17/03 4:55pm

JohnnyTheFox

Rumpofsteelskin said:

papabeat said:

Thanks for the detailed post. You obviously enjoy the album and have taken away many rewards from the experience. It also forced me to listen to it differently. I still don't like it, but I was hearing things I hadn't before.

That’s the thing about challenging music. You don’t get instant gratification.


However, that's crap. Music is like time - it's here, and then it's gone. It's ALL about instant gratification. You mentioned "A Love Supreme," which is challenging, yet also immediately supremely gratifying. Same with Miles's "Bitches Brew." If it's not hitting you as you're listening to it, something's wrong. Not with the music, per se, (maybe something's wrong with the listener) but with the connection between music and listener.



On the contrary, Miles was met with masssive resistence with critics and fans during his "bitches-on the corner" period. Downbeat (the Source magazine of the jazz world) gave BB a @@ reveiw and called it everything but a piece of pretentious shit.
Some twenty years later they wrote an apology letter and redid the review and added the extra 3 stars.

Not, saying this will be the case with NEWS because only time is gonna tell if this holds up so...let's see if this album will come to light.



You can't compare "NEWS" to "Bitches Brew" for fucks sake! "NEWS" is just some shapeless, pointless, incoherent, half-assed muso-jerking off Prince put out because he can get away with it.
[This message was edited Thu Jul 17 16:57:17 PDT 2003 by JohnnyTheFox]
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Reply #19 posted 07/17/03 5:06pm

TonyWilliams

there was no comparison. a story about miles davis was told.
that`s all.





for fucks sake.
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Reply #20 posted 07/17/03 5:47pm

Brendan

avatar

papabeat said:

Thanks for the detailed post. You obviously enjoy the album and have taken away many rewards from the experience. It also forced me to listen to it differently. I still don't like it, but I was hearing things I hadn't before.

That’s the thing about challenging music. You don’t get instant gratification.


However, that's crap. Music is like time - it's here, and then it's gone. It's ALL about instant gratification. You mentioned "A Love Supreme," which is challenging, yet also immediately supremely gratifying. Same with Miles's "Bitches Brew." If it's not hitting you as you're listening to it, something's wrong. Not with the music, per se, (maybe something's wrong with the listener) but with the connection between music and listener.


It might be crap. wink But have you serioiusly never had music completely blow you away outside your initial reaction? It happens to me all the time. And my music collection is much richer for it.

This idea of "instant gratification" and holding onto your initial reaction like it was some great truth is a surefire way to kill any possibility of ever expanding your horizons.

I understand and respect that that's how you listen to music. But once I discover a great album, it's with me for life. There's nothing instant about it. Music can be so much more than a quick fix, followed by a search for the next high.

My collection is littered with albums that I consider to have achieved greatness. How I came across this greatness spans the entire spectrum, from hard earned exploration to smacked me upside the head within 10 seconds of my first encounter. I don't enjoy the albums that provided instant greatness any more or less than the ones whose beauty took more time to uncover. They all just inspire me whenever I spin them.

Perfect example in the Prince world for me is the song "If I Was Your Girlfriend". I got no enjoyment out of my first few encounters with this particular song. More accurately put, I strongly disliked it. But at some point (5, 6, 7 listens in, I don't remember exactly) that song hit me like a ton of bricks and I now look at it as being one of the great songs of that era. I'm glad I stuck with it.

All too often what I see in music reviews is this same kind of attitude. To me you can't criticize a work of art until you've approached it with an open mind and worked hard to at least glimpse what the artist was trying to achieve. Any kind of praise or criticism outside of these parameters rings somewhat hollow.

A majority of the stuff I hear never pans out into greatness. But I'm going to continue to dig deeply into that which intrigues me on some level until I've given it every chance to shine. The rare shining makes the effort more than worthwhile.

Brendan
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Reply #21 posted 07/17/03 7:40pm

papabeat

Brendan said:

papabeat said:

Thanks for the detailed post. You obviously enjoy the album and have taken away many rewards from the experience. It also forced me to listen to it differently. I still don't like it, but I was hearing things I hadn't before.

That’s the thing about challenging music. You don’t get instant gratification.


However, that's crap. Music is like time - it's here, and then it's gone. It's ALL about instant gratification. You mentioned "A Love Supreme," which is challenging, yet also immediately supremely gratifying. Same with Miles's "Bitches Brew." If it's not hitting you as you're listening to it, something's wrong. Not with the music, per se, (maybe something's wrong with the listener) but with the connection between music and listener.


It might be crap. wink But have you serioiusly never had music completely blow you away outside your initial reaction? It happens to me all the time. And my music collection is much richer for it.

This idea of "instant gratification" and holding onto your initial reaction like it was some great truth is a surefire way to kill any possibility of ever expanding your horizons.

I never said that I was holding onto it like some great truth. But I did say that if there isn't a reaction, there may be a problem between music and listener - it's not hitting me AT THAT MOMENT.


I understand and respect that that's how you listen to music. But once I discover a great album, it's with me for life. There's nothing instant about it. Music can be so much more than a quick fix, followed by a search for the next high.

Well noted. We each enjoy music in different manners. Some of us are pathological and always looking for that next high - it's probably why my office is crowded with thousands of records/cds/tapes/dvds/etc.


My collection is littered with albums that I consider to have achieved greatness. How I came across this greatness spans the entire spectrum, from hard earned exploration to smacked me upside the head within 10 seconds of my first encounter. I don't enjoy the albums that provided instant greatness any more or less than the ones whose beauty took more time to uncover. They all just inspire me whenever I spin them.

Perfect example in the Prince world for me is the song "If I Was Your Girlfriend". I got no enjoyment out of my first few encounters with this particular song. More accurately put, I strongly disliked it. But at some point (5, 6, 7 listens in, I don't remember exactly) that song hit me like a ton of bricks and I now look at it as being one of the great songs of that era. I'm glad I stuck with it.

That's actually a terrible example. The song 'hit you like a ton of bricks.' That's instant gratification. Sure, it's not the first time you heard it, but it's the first time the connection between song and listener worked. See, I have a problem when people say an album requires repeated listening to enjoy it. That almost demands a person to purposefully wade through an album they don't like, hoping, praying they will like it. For me, it's "Adore." I put that song on 'repeat,' hoping to like it. Still don't. Repeated listenings don't provide rewards - it's the connection between musician and audience in that instant. I am glad you enjoy "If I Was Your Girlfriend though.


All too often what I see in music reviews is this same kind of attitude. To me you can't criticize a work of art until you've approached it with an open mind and worked hard to at least glimpse what the artist was trying to achieve. Any kind of praise or criticism outside of these parameters rings somewhat hollow.

I partially agree with you. Context is great at adding dimensions to art that wasn't there before. Lovesexy is a better album (to me) knowing about the demons that were apparently chasing Prince during the Black Album saga. But it was a great album (again, to me) even without knowing that. And knowing what the artist's goal was certainly helps in measuring whether they reached that goal in the listener's mind. As a screenwriter, I've certainly heard that criticism. But the fact is, the art still has to be there during those times when context is absent. Remember, Prince is the guy who tells journalists that him music speaks for itself. It better.


A majority of the stuff I hear never pans out into greatness. But I'm going to continue to dig deeply into that which intrigues me on some level until I've given it every chance to shine. The rare shining makes the effort more than worthwhile.

Thanks for the reply. I always enjoy a thought provoking debate.

Brendan
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Reply #22 posted 07/17/03 9:32pm

ROADHOUSEGARDE
N

avatar

[Snip. Flame removed. Ian]
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Reply #23 posted 07/17/03 10:28pm

Brendan

avatar

papabeat said:

Brendan said:

papabeat said:

Thanks for the detailed post. You obviously enjoy the album and have taken away many rewards from the experience. It also forced me to listen to it differently. I still don't like it, but I was hearing things I hadn't before.

That’s the thing about challenging music. You don’t get instant gratification.


However, that's crap. Music is like time - it's here, and then it's gone. It's ALL about instant gratification. You mentioned "A Love Supreme," which is challenging, yet also immediately supremely gratifying. Same with Miles's "Bitches Brew." If it's not hitting you as you're listening to it, something's wrong. Not with the music, per se, (maybe something's wrong with the listener) but with the connection between music and listener.


It might be crap. wink But have you serioiusly never had music completely blow you away outside your initial reaction? It happens to me all the time. And my music collection is much richer for it.

This idea of "instant gratification" and holding onto your initial reaction like it was some great truth is a surefire way to kill any possibility of ever expanding your horizons.

I never said that I was holding onto it like some great truth. But I did say that if there isn't a reaction, there may be a problem between music and listener - it's not hitting me AT THAT MOMENT.


I understand and respect that that's how you listen to music. But once I discover a great album, it's with me for life. There's nothing instant about it. Music can be so much more than a quick fix, followed by a search for the next high.

Well noted. We each enjoy music in different manners. Some of us are pathological and always looking for that next high - it's probably why my office is crowded with thousands of records/cds/tapes/dvds/etc.


My collection is littered with albums that I consider to have achieved greatness. How I came across this greatness spans the entire spectrum, from hard earned exploration to smacked me upside the head within 10 seconds of my first encounter. I don't enjoy the albums that provided instant greatness any more or less than the ones whose beauty took more time to uncover. They all just inspire me whenever I spin them.

Perfect example in the Prince world for me is the song "If I Was Your Girlfriend". I got no enjoyment out of my first few encounters with this particular song. More accurately put, I strongly disliked it. But at some point (5, 6, 7 listens in, I don't remember exactly) that song hit me like a ton of bricks and I now look at it as being one of the great songs of that era. I'm glad I stuck with it.

That's actually a terrible example. The song 'hit you like a ton of bricks.' That's instant gratification. Sure, it's not the first time you heard it, but it's the first time the connection between song and listener worked. See, I have a problem when people say an album requires repeated listening to enjoy it. That almost demands a person to purposefully wade through an album they don't like, hoping, praying they will like it. For me, it's "Adore." I put that song on 'repeat,' hoping to like it. Still don't. Repeated listenings don't provide rewards - it's the connection between musician and audience in that instant. I am glad you enjoy "If I Was Your Girlfriend though.


All too often what I see in music reviews is this same kind of attitude. To me you can't criticize a work of art until you've approached it with an open mind and worked hard to at least glimpse what the artist was trying to achieve. Any kind of praise or criticism outside of these parameters rings somewhat hollow.

I partially agree with you. Context is great at adding dimensions to art that wasn't there before. Lovesexy is a better album (to me) knowing about the demons that were apparently chasing Prince during the Black Album saga. But it was a great album (again, to me) even without knowing that. And knowing what the artist's goal was certainly helps in measuring whether they reached that goal in the listener's mind. As a screenwriter, I've certainly heard that criticism. But the fact is, the art still has to be there during those times when context is absent. Remember, Prince is the guy who tells journalists that him music speaks for itself. It better.


A majority of the stuff I hear never pans out into greatness. But I'm going to continue to dig deeply into that which intrigues me on some level until I've given it every chance to shine. The rare shining makes the effort more than worthwhile.

Thanks for the reply. I always enjoy a thought provoking debate.

Brendan


I think we might just be disagreeing on semantics. To me “instant gratification” means that something appeals to you immediately. I also thought that’s what you meant, because you said that “’A Love Supreme’ [was] immediately supremely gratifying.” I certainly didn’t interpret that to mean that if you had to listen to it 5 or 10 times (like I did with “IIWYGF”) before it “hit you like a ton of bricks” that you’d still end up classifying it as “instant gratification.”

I can list countless examples of songs (as you did with “Adore”) where my appreciation didn’t grow or change much beyond my initial reaction. But I don’t see how that proves that no music does or that its not a worthwhile pursuit. I stated that giving music that continued to show some level of promise or some level of intrigue would continue to get my attention until such time as no further measurable growth was taking place through increased familiarity.

When something reaches the acclaim of song like “Adore” or an album such as “A Love Supreme” and I still can’t feel any beauty in it, that is where the challenge comes in for me. Why can’t I relate with this? Well, how much have I been exposed to gospel? Do I even own any music that sounds remotely like this? How much do I love R&B? Have I ever given Al Green a try. Is there something in the lyrics that are causing me discomfort on some level that perhaps I haven’t acknowledge yet? Is there something about the falsetto or the male passion? People are a complex combination of all their experiences and it could be a million different things. But I dig until I find it. Maybe I have to set the work aside and start exploring an entire genre that I’m inexperienced with before some of the beauty of what others hear is ever unleashed. And perhaps enjoyment is never realized and I can just respect the work based on the opinions of many other people whom I respect.

I had to work for Coltrane’s “A Love Supreme”, despite having read so many reviews declaring its brilliance. With “Bitches Brew” the first half killed me right off the bat (I couldn’t stop smiling), while the second half required a lot of work to learn the music before the beauty of it fully opened up for me. I’m not saying I hated the second disc, I’m saying I didn’t have an opinion yet. The second disc pleased and intrigued me to some degree but I had no idea yet how high the bar would go (merely okay, good, great, masterpiece) until I listened to it up until the point at which the quality was no longer progressing.

I’m on a search for the greatest music that has ever been created, not for the greatest music that most immediately impacts me. I’m afraid if I wasn’t that way I wouldn’t have been able to drop a thousand silly biases over the years and I’d still pretty much have the same far-narrower tastes that I developed during the so-called formative years.

I don’t think anyone is born with perfect musical taste. They acquire and expand it through hard work. But that’s not everyone’s goal. Some just want to stay where they’re at and look for things that react just as soon as the injection is made in the vein.

At the end of the day I think we just listen to music in a totally different way. And that’s cool. But it appears as though we end up greatly enjoying some of the same music anyway. Go figure. wink

Brendan
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Reply #24 posted 07/18/03 12:25am

Marrk

avatar

ROADHOUSEGARDEN said:

[Snip. Flame removed. Ian]


rolleyes EWM is entitled to his opinion too.
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Reply #25 posted 07/18/03 5:59am

tricky99

avatar

As always Brendan is on point. Any piece of work that has any complexity to it should be listened to many times before a conclusion on its worth can be decided. NEWS is much to involved and adventuous to be dismissed so easily. Seems a lot of people look at music like fast food. A lot of art reveals its self only after multiple experiences. Folks might not like NEWS but i hear all the work and thought that went into it. Its not something just anyone could create. I respect people when they say they don't connect with it. What i don't like is when people just throw words like "shit" or "crap" around. Those are insults to the creator of the art. If nothing else respect the artist. I attempted to read Toni Morrison's Tar baby years ago and for whatever reasons i couldn't get into it and put it down. That however didn't lead me to disprect the art or the artist. It just wasn't what i was feeling then. I might pick it up now and find it brilliant. A lot of the remarks here on the org reveal more about the person writing then the object they are critiqing. Nasty comments invaribly reveal nasty people.
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Reply #26 posted 07/18/03 7:33am

papabeat

Brendan said:

papabeat said:

Brendan said:

papabeat said:

Thanks for the detailed post. You obviously enjoy the album and have taken away many rewards from the experience. It also forced me to listen to it differently. I still don't like it, but I was hearing things I hadn't before.

That’s the thing about challenging music. You don’t get instant gratification.


However, that's crap. Music is like time - it's here, and then it's gone. It's ALL about instant gratification. You mentioned "A Love Supreme," which is challenging, yet also immediately supremely gratifying. Same with Miles's "Bitches Brew." If it's not hitting you as you're listening to it, something's wrong. Not with the music, per se, (maybe something's wrong with the listener) but with the connection between music and listener.


It might be crap. wink But have you serioiusly never had music completely blow you away outside your initial reaction? It happens to me all the time. And my music collection is much richer for it.

This idea of "instant gratification" and holding onto your initial reaction like it was some great truth is a surefire way to kill any possibility of ever expanding your horizons.

I never said that I was holding onto it like some great truth. But I did say that if there isn't a reaction, there may be a problem between music and listener - it's not hitting me AT THAT MOMENT.


I understand and respect that that's how you listen to music. But once I discover a great album, it's with me for life. There's nothing instant about it. Music can be so much more than a quick fix, followed by a search for the next high.

Well noted. We each enjoy music in different manners. Some of us are pathological and always looking for that next high - it's probably why my office is crowded with thousands of records/cds/tapes/dvds/etc.


My collection is littered with albums that I consider to have achieved greatness. How I came across this greatness spans the entire spectrum, from hard earned exploration to smacked me upside the head within 10 seconds of my first encounter. I don't enjoy the albums that provided instant greatness any more or less than the ones whose beauty took more time to uncover. They all just inspire me whenever I spin them.

Perfect example in the Prince world for me is the song "If I Was Your Girlfriend". I got no enjoyment out of my first few encounters with this particular song. More accurately put, I strongly disliked it. But at some point (5, 6, 7 listens in, I don't remember exactly) that song hit me like a ton of bricks and I now look at it as being one of the great songs of that era. I'm glad I stuck with it.

That's actually a terrible example. The song 'hit you like a ton of bricks.' That's instant gratification. Sure, it's not the first time you heard it, but it's the first time the connection between song and listener worked. See, I have a problem when people say an album requires repeated listening to enjoy it. That almost demands a person to purposefully wade through an album they don't like, hoping, praying they will like it. For me, it's "Adore." I put that song on 'repeat,' hoping to like it. Still don't. Repeated listenings don't provide rewards - it's the connection between musician and audience in that instant. I am glad you enjoy "If I Was Your Girlfriend though.


All too often what I see in music reviews is this same kind of attitude. To me you can't criticize a work of art until you've approached it with an open mind and worked hard to at least glimpse what the artist was trying to achieve. Any kind of praise or criticism outside of these parameters rings somewhat hollow.

I partially agree with you. Context is great at adding dimensions to art that wasn't there before. Lovesexy is a better album (to me) knowing about the demons that were apparently chasing Prince during the Black Album saga. But it was a great album (again, to me) even without knowing that. And knowing what the artist's goal was certainly helps in measuring whether they reached that goal in the listener's mind. As a screenwriter, I've certainly heard that criticism. But the fact is, the art still has to be there during those times when context is absent. Remember, Prince is the guy who tells journalists that him music speaks for itself. It better.


A majority of the stuff I hear never pans out into greatness. But I'm going to continue to dig deeply into that which intrigues me on some level until I've given it every chance to shine. The rare shining makes the effort more than worthwhile.

Thanks for the reply. I always enjoy a thought provoking debate.

Brendan


I think we might just be disagreeing on semantics. To me “instant gratification” means that something appeals to you immediately. I also thought that’s what you meant, because you said that “’A Love Supreme’ [was] immediately supremely gratifying.” I certainly didn’t interpret that to mean that if you had to listen to it 5 or 10 times (like I did with “IIWYGF”) before it “hit you like a ton of bricks” that you’d still end up classifying it as “instant gratification.”

I can list countless examples of songs (as you did with “Adore”) where my appreciation didn’t grow or change much beyond my initial reaction. But I don’t see how that proves that no music does or that its not a worthwhile pursuit. I stated that giving music that continued to show some level of promise or some level of intrigue would continue to get my attention until such time as no further measurable growth was taking place through increased familiarity.

When something reaches the acclaim of song like “Adore” or an album such as “A Love Supreme” and I still can’t feel any beauty in it, that is where the challenge comes in for me. Why can’t I relate with this? Well, how much have I been exposed to gospel? Do I even own any music that sounds remotely like this? How much do I love R&B? Have I ever given Al Green a try. Is there something in the lyrics that are causing me discomfort on some level that perhaps I haven’t acknowledge yet? Is there something about the falsetto or the male passion? People are a complex combination of all their experiences and it could be a million different things. But I dig until I find it. Maybe I have to set the work aside and start exploring an entire genre that I’m inexperienced with before some of the beauty of what others hear is ever unleashed. And perhaps enjoyment is never realized and I can just respect the work based on the opinions of many other people whom I respect.

I had to work for Coltrane’s “A Love Supreme”, despite having read so many reviews declaring its brilliance. With “Bitches Brew” the first half killed me right off the bat (I couldn’t stop smiling), while the second half required a lot of work to learn the music before the beauty of it fully opened up for me. I’m not saying I hated the second disc, I’m saying I didn’t have an opinion yet. The second disc pleased and intrigued me to some degree but I had no idea yet how high the bar would go (merely okay, good, great, masterpiece) until I listened to it up until the point at which the quality was no longer progressing.

I’m on a search for the greatest music that has ever been created, not for the greatest music that most immediately impacts me. I’m afraid if I wasn’t that way I wouldn’t have been able to drop a thousand silly biases over the years and I’d still pretty much have the same far-narrower tastes that I developed during the so-called formative years.

I don’t think anyone is born with perfect musical taste. They acquire and expand it through hard work. But that’s not everyone’s goal. Some just want to stay where they’re at and look for things that react just as soon as the injection is made in the vein.

At the end of the day I think we just listen to music in a totally different way. And that’s cool. But it appears as though we end up greatly enjoying some of the same music anyway. Go figure. wink

Brendan


Brendan,
My bad. I did write 'immediately' when I meant 'instantly,' as in at that moment, as opposed to upon first reaction. But we probably don't listen to music that differently, as you noted that songs hit you instantly at times, and I noted that I've listened to stuff repeatedly in an attempt to enjoy it. And I'm currently on the same quest as you for great music, which has expanded my tastes to countless styles and artists over the years.

If I may, I was (over)reacting to the statement in the initial review that said,
That’s the thing about challenging music. You don’t get instant gratification.
It's not necessarily true. It just depends. To my ears, "Dorothy Parker" is immensely more challenging than N.E.W.S., but I got instant gratification from it, the first time I heard it. Likewise, I don't get instant (or any) gratification whatsoever from "Mad Sex" or "Freaks on This Side" from New Power Soul, despite repeated listenings. Does this mean it's challenging music? I guess I just have a problem when others tell me that if I don't like a particular piece of music, I should punish myself by listening to it again and again and the rewards will come, instead of allowing myself to trust my own opinions and admit that I don't like the work in question (not that you did that, mind you, just in general). If a work merits additional listens, like side
two of Bitches Brew for you, or Coltrane's Ascension for me, that's fine. Something in it told us to listen again. But sometimes works don't merit additional listens. And that should be fine too.

Sorry if this rambles more than your well-written post, it's not too often I'm forced to think on the Org.

Greg
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Reply #27 posted 07/18/03 3:59pm

laurarichardso
n

[Snipped. Ian]
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Reply #28 posted 07/19/03 12:06am

nickandmon

Nice thread, and well worth taking the time to read.


I just received N.E.W.S. over here in Bangkok this morning. I've listened to it only once and that one listening was enough to absolutely blow me away.

There are traces of Stevie in the synth sounds at certain points, and even Pink Floyd, but mainly the music reminded me of Herbie Hancock's mid-70's stuff.

Of course, that's not say it's just a copy of various other acts that have come before. Everything has the touch of this current Prince and the musical direction he's going in.

I really like this album.
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Reply #29 posted 07/19/03 1:45am

Brendan

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papabeat said:

Brendan,
My bad. I did write 'immediately' when I meant 'instantly,' as in at that moment, as opposed to upon first reaction. But we probably don't listen to music that differently, as you noted that songs hit you instantly at times, and I noted that I've listened to stuff repeatedly in an attempt to enjoy it. And I'm currently on the same quest as you for great music, which has expanded my tastes to countless styles and artists over the years.

If I may, I was (over)reacting to the statement in the initial review that said,
That’s the thing about challenging music. You don’t get instant gratification.
It's not necessarily true. It just depends. To my ears, "Dorothy Parker" is immensely more challenging than N.E.W.S., but I got instant gratification from it, the first time I heard it. Likewise, I don't get instant (or any) gratification whatsoever from "Mad Sex" or "Freaks on This Side" from New Power Soul, despite repeated listenings. Does this mean it's challenging music? I guess I just have a problem when others tell me that if I don't like a particular piece of music, I should punish myself by listening to it again and again and the rewards will come, instead of allowing myself to trust my own opinions and admit that I don't like the work in question (not that you did that, mind you, just in general). If a work merits additional listens, like side
two of Bitches Brew for you, or Coltrane's Ascension for me, that's fine. Something in it told us to listen again. But sometimes works don't merit additional listens. And that should be fine too.

Sorry if this rambles more than your well-written post, it's not too often I'm forced to think on the Org.

Greg



You are absolutely right. This is why I love to be challenged. It gives me a chance to explain myself better and useful criticism can come out of it that I can learn from.

Those two sentences you mention and the one that follows could be interpreted as though I think all challenging music grows on you slowly. And that’s not at all what I intended. And on top of that the word “challenging” does not speak at all to quality. But it could be interpreted that that’s what I believe. But that also couldn’t be further away from what I really think. There’s challenging music out there that runs the gamut from awful to fantastic. Same goes with more accessible music that’s composed, arranged or is just naturally born for near instant memorization.

There are so many different ways in which I come across greatness. Sometimes it hits me immediately (“When Doves Cry” and “Dorothy Parker”) and I don’t even have time to catch my jaw before it hits the floor.

Sometimes I start out with mixed feelings (“N*E*W*S”) and with each new listen a little more truthfulness is uncovered until I reach some point of peak familiarity where complete nirvana is achieved.

Sometimes it’s like a light switch being flicked. I’ll dislike something but I’ll keep listening anyway because it intrigues me or confounds me on some level, because it’s receiving great reviews from people I respect, or possibly because it’s part of a larger work that I mostly love (read: “SOTT”). Then, suddenly, with almost no detectable growth at all due to familiarity, my switch goes from “off” to “on”.

Sometimes I run across something that I know is traveling waters that I’m not that versed in so I’ll give it more of a chance. Because I’ve got to get my system used to completely unfamiliar territory before I can even start discerning the true nature of my surroundings. These are some of the richest finds, as horizons are expanded and new doors are opened into brand new corridors of exploration.

And, finally, sometimes I just put music back on the shelf and when I return to it months or years later, suddenly -- as if only now I was ready to hear it –- it just sounds wonderful.

All roads lead to the same thing. Finding inspiration in great art that will be with you like a loyal friend forever.

Thanks,

Brendan

--
[This message was edited Sat Jul 19 1:55:54 PDT 2003 by Brendan]
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