I love 80s music and I am not ashamed to say so. In my opinion, it was the last decade of truly original music and brought us some of the conerstones of popular music. I have noticed that most of the compilations of 80s music never ever have a black artist included. Prince is never on the CD compilations though I do hear his music on the radio shows for 80s hits. Lionel Richie and Micheal Jackson are included rarely and thats it. I was a teenagers in te 80s and I loved te birth of MTV like every teenager did back then. I can remember how huge Rick James was with Superfreak. He crossed over but MTV refused to play him. MTV pretty much laid the ground work for what we recall as the 80s sound. THey practically made Duran Duran, Billy Idol, and Cyndi Lauper.

I would think that the racist and wrongheaded stance that MTV took back then would be corrected with the inclusion of black stars that couldnt get respect in video. It goes to show you the less than 20 years ago we were still a divided society

Its weird!!
Right now I am watching VH1UKs Top 40 80s Superstars and I just cant beleive it!!!

PRINCE IS # 15!!!

I thought he would make it into the Top 3 !!!

Well MTv wasn't being 'racist', per se. I don't think they refused to play black artists, but "black music", since it wasn't something they thought they could easily market.
I mean, how many whites did you see listening to and buying "superfeak"?.
When MJ's "Thriller" came out, it was something that everyone could (and did) listen to and buy.
That's what mtv was, and sadly always will be about, they only play you if you're popular or if they think you have the potential to be popular. If the majority isn't digging it, well then you're outta luck.

lovebizzare said:

Rick's 'Street Songs' LP actually peaked at Number Three on the Pop Album charts,so it crossed over in a big way.The single "SuperFreak" peaked at Number 16 on the pop charts.So,it's clear that alot of Whites were indeed listening to it too.

I could never understand why MTV refused to show the "SuperFreak" video.The song can best be described as funk/punk,and there is definitely a New Wave feel in this song (the synths).If the same song had been recorded by Devo,it would have been all over MTV.Here's another example...in 1983,The System (an R&B duo) released the song "You Are In My System" but the video was never shown on MTV.A few months later,Robert Palmer released his own version (which didn't sound much different from the original version) and it was quickly added to the MTV playlist.

Gold319 said:

Yeah, I find that hard to grasp myself. VH1 also has this cool show here in AMerica called "I Love The 80's" They'd do huge segments, and life stories on other celebs. Along with commentary from, current or past comedians, actors and so for. When they get to the year 84-85, I expected a pretty lengthy Prince/The Revolution/Purple Rain-Reign segment...Nope...A small mention and a few comments and on to 1986.

Blue
Boo!
[This message was edited Sat Jul 12 12:15:58 PDT 2003 by TheBluePrince]

Yeah, there was some wierdness at MTV back then. Such a fuss was made when MTV barely starting up, had Prince as one of the first "black" artists to be played on there along with MJ. To make race such and issue even from the get go tells you were them mf's were at...and to an extent, still are.

DavidEye said:

true...I guess my memory blanked out there for a second, then again i was only 10, so I didn't pay much attention to chart placings, ect.

And didn't you just love their excuse for not playing the video..."we're a rock station, we only play rock videos"
[This message was edited Sat Jul 12 13:33:32 PDT 2003 by lovebizzare]

LaMont said:

well, napoleon used to say history is in the eye of the ruler. when i watch these specials i feel that way too. everything is shown from a white perspective and it's pretty messed up that only 1 or 2 black artists are remembered like that.

TheBluePrince said:

yeah...and yet they did this huge segment on "valley girl"... God, those people's iggnorance just cracks me up.

Prince, MJ,Janet, Whitney Houston,Run DMC

What do they have in common ?

They are the musicians that finally tore down the walls of musicial segregation from the corporations view.

Funny but a lot of you dont know how it was, even in the 80's. "Black" music was pushed into a corner and only allowed to play on R&B radio.

Hell,Madonna first got her start on R&B radio.Lucky Star was a huge hit down south on BLACK radio.

It's funny to me with all the rock tinged songs Prince has released he was never on "Rock" radio.

People of all races liked the music,but the media outlets were still segregated.The performers listed above ended all that nonsense.

Gold319 said:[quote]Its weird!!
Right now I am watching VH1UKs Top 40 80s Superstars and I just cant beleive it!!!

PRINCE IS # 15!!!

those bastards #15

DavidEye said:

Great point, David. That is why I mentioned Rick James. It was a rpime example of the color of his skin being the reason he did not get on MTV. If Boy George made Superfreak, it would have been played every 15 minutes. Racism manifests itself in those who are too greedy or cowardly to defy it. MTV got smart when it was obvious that the audience was not as uptight as they were abuot the music.

muleFunk said:

That comment says it all. Its not a colour thing, but simply the fact that the 80s was a pop and rock phase.

You could equally say that the current billboard top 20 is anti white. Its not, its simply the current taste and the genre has ethnic roots.

I have plenty of "best of" albums of the 80s which include my favourites like Steve Arrington, Cameo, Run DMC, Kool & The Gang, Lionel, Prince, George Benson, MJ, Whitney, etc etc.

I find it slighty disturbing that its turned into a "Race" thing again.

Quite simply, R&B and soul, took a dive in the 80s. A genre commonly associated with Blacks. At the moment, rock is suffering, commonly associated with whites.

As said many times in the past. Music is colourblind.

So why do so many want to paint it?

PS - I don't mean these points against you fella, I mean in the general context of the thread. I just used your point as a diving board
[This message was edited Sun Jul 13 17:09:32 PDT 2003 by SquirrelMeat]

SquirrelMeat said:

Well, yeah, I do too, but this is America, and 'race' is always gonna be an issue whether we like it or not.
You do make some excelent points; but there were successful r&b acts to come out of the 80s as well, same goes with rap.

lovebizzare said:

Too true. Rap, probably the biggest influence in music since punk or rock and roll, was born and grew up in the 80s.

After "Walk this way" it truely became mainstream. and that was only half way through the 80s.

The best thing about Run DMC, whether you consider them sell out or not, is they bridged a gap between two racial undergrounds. Old Prog rock and rap.

Look at Cameo, Word up. Its actually a soft rap pop record. Number one all over the world.

Anyone remember Oran "Juice" Jones? Rain was a pop classic. It was one of many songs that introduced the masses to watered down R&B and Rap.

Heck, anyone remember that one of the best "rap" remixes on the late 80s was actually a remix of Tears For Fears, "Shout".

Hell, when a white pop band are now being mixed hard, you gotta realise that the genre has arrived!

The music was never a race issue. But when the "hardcore" fans saw their music being infiltrated by the masses, they responded with distaste and anger.

From there, the hardcore rap was born, and it started to become a race issue again.

The rap and race issue I find funny (in a sick kind of way).

Many blacks are racist, and won't accept white in their genre, such as Eminem.

Many whites are racist and ingnore fantastic rap artists, until a white guy comes along offering the same thing, with a white face.

If it all came through the radio, with no picture, imagine how the face of current music would change, at the very least in the USA.

One could argue, MTV has done as much damage as it has good. In the case of the USA, is gave music colour. Something we could all do without.



Both as

the main reason why prince is not frequently represented on cd compilations is because he & his management dont allow it.

SquirrelMeat said:

I agree with this. Don't get me wrong, back then, to me, music videos were the hottest thing since sliced bread, and did give a lot of artists back then great exposure but it also, in the long run, made an artist's image a big deal. I remember Hall & Oates complaining about how music videos were the "ruining of music", and thinking "whatever, ", but now I really do see where they were comming from.

But before music video, race/image was somewhat an issue. I mean, Teena Marie's first album didn't feature any pictures of her, gee, I wonder why. They figured that blacks wouldn't respond to some litte white girl from california; same was done with madonnna. They worried that once they found out these performers who "sounded black" would loose their black audience black audience if they found out they were white. I'm not saying their thinking was right (they were ultimately wrong in these two cases), but that was the way things were done back then. As you said, the rap community is shaky about a white rapper; the thinking hasn't changed, it's just switched genres, so to speak.
In one way or another, race is always an issue, unfortunately.
[This message was edited Sun Jul 13 23:24:46 PDT 2003 by lovebizzare]

lovebizzare said:

Hell, this bullshit is still on 2 this day! and anybody who says that MTV broke down the musicial segregation 2day are lying through their teeths. Denial is a bitch, but then again who are they to blame? After all they are the puppets and the strings are on the middle men's hands.

Sad but true!

lovebizzare said:

In the UK the BBC do a show called I love 19**. Going from 1970 to the present. Each year they look at all the fads that go around and what music is being listened to. Each fad/music gets up to 5 mins depending on what it is. Prince with Purple Rain is mentioned in "I Love 1984" (although it could have been 1985). Its about 5 mins long with interviews with Wendy & Lisa who comment that they don't think that Prince has realised his full potential. There were lots of comments by UK celebrity bods about how they love Prince and think he is amazing.

One of the reasons, I think, that Prince was never added to rock radio stations back in the 80s was due more to his flamboyance, image AND pop star status than his race. In the rock world he was too connected to MJ. His songs where just as rockin as any rock band during the time but rock fans just hated the guy. Back then and now I hear Stevie Wonder's early 70s songs, Sly Stone, &, of course, Jimi on rock radio all the time.

Pagey said:

Thats the most ridiculous theory that I have heard. Race matters in EVERYTHING on this planet. If you dont know want to believe that, you are just fooling yourself. The same reason that a prominent black rock bands like Fishbone and Lving Colour could get on white rock stations is the same reason black artists couldnt get on MTV. Dress it up if you want to. George Micheal, Boy George, and Madonna all were doing "black" or "urban" music in the early 80s - hell, Madonna still does. They were pretty adn white and that got them on MTV. It is the history of the music industry. It happened to the founders of rock: Chuck Berry, Bo Diddley, Little Richard.

LaMont said:

I am talking about Prince on ROCK RADIO in the 80s (and now). Don't confuse my statement as being ignorant about race on the radio or anywhere else. Prince is one of the few black artists in recent history to see a true crossover of race lines regarding his fans...MJ is another, Lenny Kravitz, Stevie Wonder, & Sly Stone are three more. But why did rock radio not play Prince & MJ but DID play Lenny, Sly & Stevie? U think its only because of race? I am sorry but there are reasons other than race on why a radio station plays or does not play an artists material. Public image has A LOT to do with it...especially when it comes to rock...or AOR radio stations.

[quote]

lovebizzare said:

DavidEye said:

GREAT example DavidEye, The System is a classic example of a 'poppy' R&B group that crossed over well, and was popular...but never made it either to MTV or those 80's compilations. But yet, you put it on in mixed company and EVERYONE recognizes it. Its not that you can't find compilations of the 'black 80's', its just eff'd up to me that you never find Cameo next to David Bowie on one.

The Robert Palmer example is great too. He remade "I Didn't Mean to Turn You On" and "Early In the Morning" as well, getting much more recognition and of course MTV airplay than either Cherelle or The Gap Band. Speaking of the Gap Band, their absenced from 80's MTV is just as appalling as Rick James'.

One thing that does come into play though, as was said before, is that MTV was going for the widest audience (among cable subscribers). I think its been written that the 80's the divide between black and pop charts was pretty wide. So 'our 80's' in addition to the Duran Duran, included Ashford and Simpson, Dazz Band, Atlantic Starr, Luther Vandross etc, as well as the Kool and the Gang, Cameo, Gap stuff and even Teena Marie (none of which was apparently popular enough for MTV )

JumpUpOnThe1 said:

well, that's why we had BET

lovebizzare said:

yeah, basically tho' bet's startin to go down the crapper, too...

Pagey said:

Hmm... rock radio played Stevie? I'm not being facetious or anything, i just never would've guessed that. I can definitely see the mullet and Def Leppard t-shirt crowd not being too cool with Prince's image, lol...but man, i still thought Lets Go Crazy would be in rotation.

Funny how George Michael's white, gay image was trumped by his vocals, lyrical and production talents (plus or minus some industry weight) when it came to urban/black radio. His stuff always crossed over to black charts and he's proud of that...at least he used to be. Hmm... and Eminem's image didn't stop him once the hip hop community caught hold of his skills. Shall I continue? Even poppy Hall and Oates got on black radio in the early 80s with their 'I Can't Go For That'/'Maneater' vibe. What's more troubling to me is that Terence Trent D'arby, and now RES and Kelis have difficulty getting in rotation in black/urban markets

lovebizzare said:

LoL... you know I had Donnie Simpson and Sherry Carter in mind when I was typing

but seriously, I mean thats like saying, well... thats why we had Howard or Grambling in the 50's and 60s

but seriously, I mean thats like saying, well... thats why we had Howard or Grambling in the 50's and 60s[/quote]


...AND we still need Howard,Grambling,Tennessee State,Southern,FAMU NOW !

Proud HBCU graduate.

Prince caused a lot of trouble from the middle 90's onward to today, that is the reason for his loss of respect/status in the industry. (not talking about musically, talking about the business)

But shift back to the years from 1990 to 1994 and most executives in the industry and media (like him or not) still all labeled him "genius" and gave mad respect and leeway. For example, at the close of the 80's/ beginning of the 90's Prince won so many lifetime achievement awards it ain't funny (AMA, Grammy, Billboard,British, Soul Train, Naacp, Essence, etc. and the there is that legendary $100 mil. contract for an artist who had peaked not 1 year ago, but 8 years ago (1984-1992)

Please I love Prince's music to death and followed it's creators' career across 3 decades, but the guy must have the worst management/publicist/business skills in the history of entertainment.

Prince is music's Marlon Brando. nuff said
[This message was edited Tue Jul 15 21:33:51 PDT 2003 by lmas]

Some alternative stations used to play him back in the 1980s. Most of their format is rock music. Maybe he's not on any of the 1980s compilations because of the situation with his master recordings. He might have to give the 'okay' and won't do it. Some decisions aren't warner brothers' alone. It's just a theory.