In another discussion, someone said that 1999 is the holy grail. Aside from 1999 being the explosion it was in coming out when it did, why do people feel this way? In other words, is it "the holy grail" because of the music or because of its placement in our culture?

I like it a lot and play it often, but, IMHO, it's got flaws that are overlooked, although the same flaws are criticized on other albums. For example:

Delerious is a great song but not groundbreaking after songs on DM and Controversy;

the funk beat is similar in many of the songs;

the drumming is not that impressive;

some of the songs are simply too long (Prince as Jerry Garcia? oh nooo!);

Free is a yawnfest (for me, at least);

and, only a Frenchman would top off a fine meal with a big chunk of cheese like International Lover

I'm not being a prick, just looking for an answer as one who wasn't there at it's birth (I began listening to P in the late 80's). Help me out here.

I DON'T THINK IT'S A "HOLY GRAIL".IT'S TOO MECHANICAL TO BE THAT.IT'S A GREEAT ALBUM AND THERE ARE A LOT OF STORIES ,IN MY LIFE,ASSOCIATED WITH THAT ALBUM,BUT IT'S NOT THE PERFECTEST MOST PERFECT PRINCE ALBUM.I'LL PONDER THIS CONUNDRUM AND GET BACK TO YOU.BUT,OFFHAND,I'D SAY THAT D&P IS THE "HOLY GRAIL" TO MOST HARDCORE PRINCE FANS.THEY SAY THAT TONY M IS THE THINKING MAN'S VANILLA ICE.

jackflash said:[quote] only a Frenchman would top off a fine meal with a big chunk of cheese like International Lover

eh? lol.

I think it is because it began to introduce the rest of the world to what those of us who were already fans already knew.

Just to nitpick, but 1999 can't be the holy grail since we all know where and what 1999 is. Those unheard songs in the vault are more like the holy grail when it comes to folks here.

That said, I think 1999 has the reputation it has because it was the first release to really showcase the depth and breadth of what he could do. Also, it was crazy popular. On R&B radio you got this insane barrage of songs being played from this one album, whether they were released as singles or not. 1999, LRC, Free, DMSR, Int. Lover, Lady Cab Driver, Delirious were all in heavy rotation (at least they were in Houston). On Top 40 radio LRC was killin' and 1999 was a hit. Unlike his previous releases, 1999 was his first release that could not be ignored by the masses. Everybody knew something from that album.

rockwilder said:

You are joking. Right?
Thinking man's Vanilla Ice...Yeah, you are. That was a good one.

So, from your replies, I guess 1999's popularity is not based solely on the pure musical content and is based in part on the cultural shockwave it sent. Not having been "there" in 1982, this historical component must be missing from my psyche when it comes to this era.

jackflash said:

That sounds about right, although it is a pretty good album on it's own. He wasn't a superstar or anything after 1999 came out, but it was his introduction to the masses.

jackflash said:

I like international lover!

1999 was an awesome year for music when u think about it..

I've never loved what they were playing on video & radio in Europe so much in my life. I don't think there was a week that I wasn't at a huge party.

Savannah said:

Do you mean 1999, or 1982?

I will get back to this. I really think "1999" is the greatest album ever.

Here is my explanation for 1999.

There is no point arguing why 1999 is my favorite album as taste is entirely suggestive. This is going to be more of a reflection of why I think it is THE greatest album ever.

"1999" was incredibly relevant at the time and its messages loom large today as well. In 1982, the world was in a mess. AIDS was festering in Africa. The Soviet Union and the USA were entrenched in the frigid Cold War. The tension in the Middle East was augmented. The world's economy experienced an enormous crash, rendering several countries in South America and Africa paupers in the world market (many of which have not recovered). Who wasn't worried about the troubled times? "1999" tunes in perfectly to those fears. The title track is a viciously funky premonition of not only the current state of affairs, but things to come. Prince really tapped into his view of the future with this album. The foreboding messages of the title track are echoed in future classics like "Let's Go Crazy" and "Crystal Ball," but none are as timely nor as timeless as "1999," which is funny as "1999" is tied to a specific date.

"1999" also reigns supreme due to its paradoxes. Whether it be Prince clamoring, "I'm in love with God, he's the only way" in juxtaposition with "I sincerely want to fuck the taste out of your mouth" in "Let's Pretend We're Married," the dedication of a sexual thrust to "love without sex" in the midst of the passion of "Lady Cab Driver" or the sonic paradox of "Something in the Water (Does Not Compute)," a song literally being torn apart by the opposing forces of order in the form of the computerized synth and turbulence in the passion of Prince's guttural screams and the beat which is systematically chaotic, Prince was clearly functioning on a new level with this album, not just personally, but in music as a whole. Nothing previous to this had been as irreverent as "Let's Pretend We're Married," only to turn a complete 180 and declare love of God. Nothing prior to this had seen a song effortlessly blend the primitive outburst of screaming and the forward-looking sound of "Something in the Water (Does Not Compute)." What was this guy thinking?

"1999" also earns the award because it breaks so many formats. The smash singles are all placed at the beginning of the album, after which it meanders into much darker, experimental territory. The outburst of raging, swaggering funk in "Let's Pretend We're Married," "DMSR," "Automatic," "Lady Cab Driver" and "All the Critics Love U in New York" are stunning not because they are so drawn out (all but "All the Critics" are over 7 minutes in length), but because they still seem concise. Not a beat was misused, not a measure was misplaced. Speaking of "All the Critics Love U in New York," this song stands out not only as the most experimental song in Prince's career, but among the most experimental music of the modern era. Supremely funky, Prince turns a swipe at critics and hippies alike into a nasty, frenetic, rhythmic explosion over seemingly disinterested, lazy half-rapping.

"1999" has a distinct sound. The entire album is tied together by a common sound, with instantly recognizable beats, synths and attitude. Despite this bond, the songs are easily distinguishable from each other. Regardless, no song on "1999" can be mistaken for being on any other album. I believe that albums work best that stretch the palate of one sound as far as it can go. "1999" is arguably Prince's most minimalist work, employing few instruments in the mix, yet it propogates a dense fog of funk that sounds both sparse and forebodingly full. Prince pushed himself to his creative limit with this album and the outtakes most associated with it. Prince incorporates inexplicable gurgling sounds, elephant noises, soldier footsteps and city noises into the mix and they perfectly fit the scheme of the music, sounding as if they were recorded for the sole purpose of inclusion on this album. Other albums also are deeply rooted with a single sound, but none, with perhaps the exception of David Bowie's "Low," Prince's "Lovesexy" and Bjork's "Vespertine," involve as much creativity. "1999" is a black beacon of foreboding funk.

"1999" also rules the rest because it was recorded by an incredibly gifted artist on the brink of superstardom. This was the LAST music Prince recorded before becoming a bonafide mega-star. It exhibits all of the hunger, drive and determination of the first four releases, but it adds a confident swagger and a new maturity as well. This was Prince's rite of passage into manhood. Prince KNEW this music was legendary and stood out on its own. It didn't need any gimmicks- it didn't need Prince to grace the cover in some provocative pose. The music spoke for itself. Anything recorded after "1999" was created by someone who was already a household name. "1999" came from a relative unknown, making it all the more surprising.

Lastly, "1999" is so stunning because it is entirely the work of one man. Certainly, studio engineers were involved in the mix. Prince even includes "the Revolution" for the first time on this album. However, Dez Dickerson's influence is nowhere on this record. It's not Matt Fink's vision. This album is 100% Prince himself. Not only does Prince unveil all of his cards in this release, he turns them over in your face, making them impossible to ignore. This album is the culmination of his genius, the pinnacle of an artist whose talent is unrivaled by anyone of the modern era.

I rest my case.

Moonbeam

1999 is great, but I'd just like to make an observation: why is it that we're able to come up with such well-written opinions and reviews on an album produced twenty years ago, but as a community, our description of the latest, and hence, most relevent of Prince's music, News, is largely limited to such words as 'elevator music'?
Does Prince's music take umteen years before we can appreciate it? Does it need to be placed retrospectively in some nice niche relevant to the music at the time? Does it take a fond association of the past times in our lives that we first heard the music to think that something is so great?

Moonbeam said:

Thank you. I respect your comments even more because you are unlikely to have been listening to 1999 when it was first released.

No disrespect MoonBeam because you're review was great. I just have trouble with such thick analysis of his music. It's unlikely that Prince was thinking in your terms when he created such music. It's unlikely that he planned his juxtapositions between sex and God. Such analysis is merely an interpretation made by a third person. Prince has emphasised that much of his music comes off the cuff, so it really stretches things to try and bring great reasoning and purpose to it.

The album was just the bomb for its time.If Thriller had not been released 2 months later ,Prince would have owned 1983.

Summer 1983 will always be remembered for the radio that was being played and Billie Jean & Little Red Corvette battling on R&B radio.It seemed that when one was played the other would come on next.

Another thing,this was the first Prince album to fully introduce the Minneapolis Sound to the world.The keyboards were copied by everyone after 1999.

What was even more surprising was the G.O.A.T. hiding behind this album known as Purple Rain.

It's a tight album but not the "Holy Grail"...

u c... it has lady cab driver on it...that means it is a grail, without doubt...holy? maybe, maybe not.

t was the album on which prince said f**k u all, f**k u all more than DM, this is what time it is.

Moonbeam said:

I still love this record as much as when I was 12!

funkaholic1972 said:

my thoughts exactly.

jackflash said:

To someone who just walks into the Purple party it may not be all that. But to those of us who got it when it first came out it was truly the first time our world turned purple too. That album sounded like NOTHING at it's time and it was brilliant. I remember sitting down and just looking at the album cover, or watching the eye spin around the phonograph. The picture of him lying on the bed and the band shot also added to the whole VIBE of that album and era. It was the first tour I ever seen and it still holds a very emotional place with me. For me...Prince is the Holy Grail, sure there are some dull spots on it, but mostly it shines like nothing else ever has or ever will.

EverlastingNow said:

cosign-age

1999 is a motherfucking masterpiece; Purple Rain is the holy grail

Moonbeam. . nailed my thoughts exactly about my fav album.

Although, what do we mean by "holy grail"??? I don't think any of his albums are that. . .'cuz it's subjective. The ONE album you have to have of Prince's (i.e., the "h.g.")??? Please, you'll get 200 different answers. . .

Moonbeam said:

Perfectly said.

I got into this album in the 90's, when I first delved beyond the greatest hits, and it still is unlike anything out there. This is his most diverse, powerful album up to TRC atleast. I imagine that it'll be another twenty years until some dig that one.
[This message was edited Sun Jul 13 1:29:18 PDT 2003 by whodknee]

jackflash said:

You're right- I didn't get into "1999" until 1990, and I owe it everything musically. Thank YOU for being open to other opinions.

sabaisabai said:

No offense taken. I do think that with Prince, though, his messages are well-planned. That juxtaposition of sex and God is an important theme with Prince that has surfaced in virtually every album since "Controversy." It's not just a fluke.

Another post from the archives:

What else can I do with this, my 1,999th post, other than to dedicate it to my favorite album, "1999!" There has been a lot of discussion recently about this album, whether it defines Prince and whether its unique facets are strengths or weaknesses.

This album and I have had a long history. One of the first Prince songs (if not THE first) that I knew was "1999." It quickly became my favorite song of his. I was probably 10 or so by the time that I gained enough interest to sneak money to my brother (TRON) to buy me the tape outside of the wary guise of my mother, who would have had a conniption upon discovering that I owned an album by PRINCE. Soon thereafter, my brother, being the good brother that he is, exposed me to more of Prince's music. Regardless, "1999" remained my favorite to this day, for its quirkiness and its style.

Why do I hold such a dear place in my heart for "1999?" First, it defines me musically more than any other album. Its undeniably sassy and confident funk flows freely through my insatiable ears. Its synth/new wave also suits me well, as that genre is arguably my favorite. Stylistically then, the combination of funk and synth appeals to me greatly.

I also love the album for what it represents. "1999" is one of the most adventurous albums I have heard. Its 11 songs sprawl across many feelings and emotions with a confident swagger. However, as has been mentioned, this album breaks the format of the traditional 3 to 4 minute pop song. As his first double LP, "1999" is furthermore a bold move as it implies that Prince was important enough to merit double the attention of the general audience. Having not had overwhelming success, this is quite a statement. And the music lives up to the pretensions.

Each song on the album is crafted with a keen sense of style and substance. Even the more mainstream songs carry a deeper meaning under the surface. The title track, for example, not only clamors for a gigantic party (and what a funky party at that!), but carries an undertone of an impending sense of doom and the need to be prepared for the worst. "Little Red Corvette" also proved to be commercial fodder, but its message of the triumph of love over lust indicates that this is a Prince who has matured to some degree. "Delirious" continues the car theme present in LRC and explores the effects of the suffocating beauty of a woman.

The format of the album also is quite intriguing. Craftily placing the smash singles at the beginning of the album, "1999" then meanders into deeper, darker, and more experimental territory. "Let's Pretend We're Married" has been described by some as the dirtiest song on a top 10 album. The juxtaposition of the messages of infidelity and obedience to God is just one paradox in an album filled with many. "DMSR" evolved into a sort of motto for Prince. Its line "I don't care to win awards...all I wanna do is dance, dance music sex romance..." is exemplary of Prince's attitude at the time. "Automatic" follows with its sonic ecstasy superimposed over dark messages of bondage and torture. Its 9 minutes are a voyage into seemingly uncharted territory.

What follows may be the best track on the album, "Something in the Water (Does Not Compute)." A turbulent drum line opens the song and sets the stage for the uneasiness that follows with the lyrics. Obviously broken-hearted, Prince struggles to find an explanation for the substandard treatment he receives from the women he loves. Cleverly incorporating alliteration in its scheme, lyrically the song is quite impressive. The song, like its composer, seems to be tearing apart at its seams- at once maintaining the turbulent, robotic synths and drums while the emotion beings to overflow with an almost psychotic zest.

"Free" offers a prelude to what would come in Prince's career with the massive anthemic success of "Purple Rain." "Lady Cab Driver" funks like no other and features Prince exorcising the demons of his insecurities while having intercourse with his female chauffer. At once vulnerable and needy, Prince confides his fears and doubts in her, forming a bond consummated by passionate sex. Although undeniably funky, it is only a precursor to what is perhaps the funkiest song of Prince's career- "All the Critics Love U in New York." Exuding great confidence, Prince realizes that he is the "it" artist of the time and takes the opportunity to take a swipe at his critics and admirers alike. The funk effervesces throughout the entire song, wading into experimental territory. It is undeniably singular in its kind and stands out as one of the most memorable moments on not only the album, but of his career.

The album closes with "International Lover," an appropriate ending track to this voyage through the dark realms of electronic funk. Sassy and strident, the song obviously gave Prince a chance to appeal to his fans who found him sexy. Thus concludes what I believe to be a masterpiece.

This album has never ceased to entertain and surprise me. All the tracks have overwhelmed me at some point and continue to duke it out for the lofty spot of my favorite on the album. This album has taught me a lot about music and my own style. I adore it thoroughly.