I really don't think he saw that coming. Before he was a mega-star and since then, even though the music has still been pumping, he's gone almost unheard of to the general public. Post your thoughts please!

i think that was a huge a factor but i also think industry blacklisting played a large part as well. after tmbgitw, he couldn't pay to get a song on the radio. also, for a while P was still stuck in the 80's. he thought it was cool to be androgynous (which had faded long before) and cool to be elusive (faded even longer before). peeps don't want to put up with a spoiled rock star unless there is great drama to go along with it. perhaps he was too elusive?

it wasn't just the "name" change, it was his slave ranting and his blackballing of the company that granted him 100 million dollars in return of the rights to his masters. Prince is a fool, plain and simple. Deal with it.

To be quite honest, i thought Prince was being a little whiny brat. For the first time he couldn't get things his way and freaked out.
Changing his name to the symbol made him look like even more of a 'freak' to the public. And, as huggy pointed out, it wasn't just the name change, it was the writing of 'slave' on his face, this pissed off A LOT of people. The name change made him look like a whiny, spoiled, egnimatic, freak to the public. And of course, if the public isn't digging you, you're not gonna have commercial success. When he began to fall off commercialy, is when, in my opinion, his muisc began to suffer; that's because he was trying to gain back his audience again. The whole symbol thing allienated a lot of people (I myself was in an anti-prince mood, i didn't bash him or anything, I just didn't pay attetion to him anymore, I bought his stuff, listened to it once and that was that. in fact, it took seeing 'purple rain' on tv for me to pay attention to him again).
I honestly don't think Prince even thought about what he was doing. He just did it, and the more he did, the more people allienated and pissed off. By the time he changed his name back to Prince, it was too late. No one really cared, it was considered old news. Now, had he done this, say, '96, he might've done better commercially.
I think now he realizes the mistake he made, but also realizes there's nothing he can do about it anymore.

The name change was a sad fiasco.I hated that era.Alot of my friends had always told me that Prince was crazy,and here he was proving them right...lol...I understand that he was pissed at Warners and this was his way of rebelling against them,but he went about it the wrong way.The name change turned him into a joke,as far as the general public was concerned.Writing "slave" on his cheek was a huge mistake too and I don't think too many people sympathized with him.I don't think Prince really thought about what he was doing.Like MJ,Prince has this bad habit of making bad decisions,and not listening to managers and advisors (who surely would have advised him against this).

DavidEye said:

...that is, if he HAD anybody 'managing' him at that point, which I doubt he would have. I think he probably thought 'hey, they've given me a $100 million contract, so Im obviously their golden ticket, and can push em around 4 all im worth' - then got the shock of his life when it all went wrong and he had a sudden wake up call with his fall from grace. Although, 2 be fair, if I had been in his position, I dont think I would've wanted 2 admit I was wrong either after making such a public declaration of war on a company that had made his career. Saying that though, can u imagine where he would be now? Maybe it would've all been kinda sweet, and people would've respected him 4 that. Then again...

I look at it this way, 1996 was where the Prince of old as we knew him died. Because there is no way he would've given his fans such a poor album like 'Chaos & Disorder' before. We all know that it was a contractual thing - by that point he didnt even care. I know there is more 2 it than just painting this whole argument as black and white (Im sure it wasnt as simple as all that) but the reason I feel so sure about this is that 4 someone who was previously SO adamant that The Black Album would never see the light of day, and then hand it over as a contract-breaker just made me smell a rat.
After that, P realised he'd fucked up (he aint stupid after all, just naiive) and although he played up 2 the 'Prince getting closer 2 the 'fams' (sic) schtick, he distanced himself from a huge percentage of his fanbase.

Egotistical...

Maniacal...

Selfish...

and let's not 4get:

Spoilt.

I like the symbol, I just hated being asked if he changed his name to Victor, it was constantly asked.

I can't believe how many people went around referring to him as "The Artist" or "The Artist Formerly Known As Prince".That sounded so stupid!

DavidEye said:

LOL or "Taffy" to quote Rosie O' Donell

bananacologne

I was amazed too that he ultimately gave them The Black Album to be released as part of the 100 million contract, when he had always said and asked his fans not to buy it. People do a lot of stupid things for money.

When Prince decide 2 change his name, he didn't realise just how much his popularity had dwindled, not a lot of people gave a shit what he called himself.

With regards 2 the Black album, Prince's main priority is money!

I don't think the casual music fan really cared at that point. Prince/ was a pop star in the age of Grunge.

As far as the black album goes, if it was all about $$$ he would've released it as an overpriced "limited edition" around '88/89 when folks were still clamoring for it. It was a non-event when it finally came out cause everyone who wanted it already had it and Prince probably knew that.

What annoys me is folks who either still call him "The Artist" or, ironically, use "formally" instead of "formerly".


p.s. Ya'll know he never got anywhere near $100 million right?



.
[This message was edited Thu Jun 26 12:36:49 PDT 2003 by Universaluv]

huggy said:

and your on a site related to that fool... go figure

Universaluv said:

Yeah - we know it's only a fgure on paper, and that ca$h wasnt HIS per se - can y'all say 'Recouparable co$t$?
Take THAt 2 the bank MF!

I think the whole thing was summed up best in "An Evening With Kevin Smith". He quotes one of Prince's "managers" saying something to the effect of "Prince has been in Princeworld for so long that he doesn't understand...such and such".

I mean, he's been a rock star now basically since he was 18, and as a result, I really don't think he has the slightest idea what the average person thinks, does even goes through from day to day.

Prince does was what Prince wants, and I love him for it. And for the record, even at the time, I thought the name change was kind of cool; over the top, wierd, grandiose, pretentious, different and whack - exactly the type of things I prefer from my musical and artistic idols. It actually reminded meof something that Dali might do.

Aside: I read recenty that Marylin Manson is contemplating a symbol for a name...anyone know about this?

herb4 said:

Yeah - it was supposedly true, but that's NOT recent news - it was prior 2 the release of 'Holywood' a couple of years ago...then nothing more was heard of it. Probably Marilyn's idea of a joke (although He is a big Prince fan, along with his old friend Mr ReZnoR...) It was one of the symbols featured heavily on that album's artwork etc, and he can be seen sporting it here:

I think Prince or somebody underestimated how many copies of NEWS needed to be produced...these backorder messages are driving folks crazy.

It's putting out crap albums that made Prince a joke and the stupid name change didn't help.

It's putting out crap albums that made Prince a joke and the stupid name change didn't help.


I agree and I think that when the music died, he died. Remember the ridiculous funeral he had for "Prince." Can you believe that he actually had a FUNERAL? Unbelievable ridiculous. I really think that he will never admit his culpability in MANY things...like how he treated his band mates and how badly he treated women, his "fams" and such. I think that his recent pilgrimage to JW just MIGHT help him realize what a jerk he really was. I hope so, and that he can change his life even though I believe that the music is dead.

By the way, a woman at my church mentioned Larry Graham this morning. Started singing "One In A Million." When I mentioned that LG is now working with P and helped to convert him to JW, the entire room got silent and she just turned up her nose. Then she goes: "Is he still that symbol-thing?" I said "No, he's Prince again." Luckily there was one other person in the room who liked Prince and said, "He never was a symbol; he's always been 'Prince'." I was happy and breathed a sigh of relief.

Wow, you could get into a lot of trouble just by mentioning Prince...and the struggle continues...

I don't think anyone in Prince's position back in '92 would have realised what becoming an independent force might entail, especially given the celebrity treatment that was lavished his way at Warners. He was treated extremely well but he wanted more. There's nothing wrong with that at all, and as some of you are failing to realise, his change of heart was not a purely financial consideration. In fact, there's everything right about the change when it's about artistic expression and true reward. That's he sold it to us, that's why we listened. Often, when something feels so right, we often forget what might be the 'best' route to reach our destination. That's love for you. Personally, I think what Prince has got now justifies what he put himself through, and me.

Anji said:

It was pure arrogance that he thought he could go independent.

If he made the change for artisic reasons then he could have taken the WB deal and given fans the less commercial output for free, (like Bowie, Ted Rundgren (sp), other small independents), but he wanted big WB bucks.

he's just a greedy fuck. a genius, but a greedy fuck.

NME said:

Arrogance made Prince the star attraction that he once was. That's not necessarily a 'bad' quality; in many ways, his confidence is what attracted me to him. That underlying level of self-love.

As for greed, I think Prince is still hungry and rightfully so. We must all learn to appreciate what is truly our own. Only then, can we learn to give ourselves freely and truly...

I think Prince truly didnt give a friggin frig about who was gonna say what how when where or why cuz he went ahead with the name change any friggin way. & even though he's back 2 Prince again...if u look on some artists songs that he helped out with, the is there instead of Prince. So either which the boat floats, Prince will be recognized and/or change whatever he deems necessary as long as he is Prince...or whomever he is at the moment.

It is surprising to me that people still do not understand the name change.

1. The name change was a way to get around the Warners contract.Prince albums were still being released."Symbol" would also release albums through Warners or someone else.George Clinton did this with Parlement.He changed the name to Funkadelic and signed them to another record deal.He also created Parlet and other groups that were actually the same group.He was caught and it was a huge mess.

2."Slave": The slave issue was another issue people did not understand.If you are not free to do what you want to do ,regardless to how much you are paid,you are in a form of bondage.In the pimp/prostitute relationship, the prostitute works 24/7 to the pimp.She gets paid money but she is owned by the pimp.If you are charged with pimping you are charged with "white slavery".

3.Princeville: Sure Prince lived in Princeville ,however around 1993 he started to come out of it and realized that the was being "pimped".If you find out the particulars of the 1991 contract it was no way he would have been allowed to fulfill that contract.It is possible that he discovered that he would have owed WB a ton of money afterwards.
During the Diamonds & Pearls single run,the song stays at #2 for 4 weeks making every other chart at #1 except Billboard.During the 7 single run the same thing happened.
The record company is supposed to "help"your song get to #1.
Prince was also shifted to the Black Artist division of Warners which means they were going to market Prince to urban radio.

Huh? You had one of the major acts in music history and you are going to shift him over to "Black" radio.Prince had different songs at #1 on the "Black" chart and "pop" charts and the company is just going to put him out to pasture.
NOTE: This was right after he signed the contract and before the name change drama.Do you think that Madonna or MJ would have been disrespected like this ?

Prince was no saint because he did (& still)acts spoiled. Who spoiled Prince ???

Warners

Keep it real !

muleFunk said:

But how can you "get around a recording contract" by simply changing your name? That is beyond absurd.Prince is really lucky that Warners didn't sue him for breach of contract.And,in 1993,he told us that he changed his name for "spiritual reasons".


As for the "slave issue"...alot of people forget this,but for the most part,Prince WAS able to do whatever he wanted at Warners.He was allowed to have all those talentless proteges,he was allowed to release albums very quickly (what other major artist would have been allowed to have a new album out every year?),he was allowed to do all types of flop movies (with Warner's money),he had more creative freedom than most artists had.Only *after* signing the huge contract in 1992 (a contract that he was not forced to sign) did Warners begin to,understandably, question some of his actions.

muleFunk said:

Actually,the song "Cream" did go to Number One on the Billboard pop charts.And I'm pretty sure that the title track reached Number Two or Number Three.Yes,the record company is supposed to help a song reach Number One,but in the end,it's the record-buying public that ultimately decides a song's fate.Can we really bash Warners just because a song doesn't reach the Number One position?

muleFunk said:

1. It would never have worked. as has been said before WB knew they could have done him for breach of contract, but decided as they were still regarded the 'artists records company' (ie, more caring and in the business of creating long term careers), they didn't need the headache. so after a few embarrasing public appearences by P, they worked out how to end the relationship, to suit all. I'm sure P thought he was some sort of genius changing his name but he was just a fool. Why didn't george michael do this..? why didn't the Stone do this with Decca when they signed to virgin... because it wouldn't work.

2. We are all slaves. we all HAVE to pay tax on our earnings, we all HAVE to pay our governments, although they make the decisions for us. if we don't like it we vote them out, like the way that if you don't like your contract you don't re-sign. Prince should have just grow the fuck up. simple.

3. i don't think moving Prince the black artists division was bad.
a) It wouldn't make the slightest difference in a #1 and #2 position.
b) It means that a specialist department targets the key markets (for the R&B tracks) IN ADDITION to the main resources of a record company. it's ADDITIONAL help in promoting it. and if you think about it, after Graffiti Bridge they probably realised he'd NEED this push to get him back with his core audience. Also P was heavily involved in the marketing of D&P, it wouldn't surprise me if HE was the one who decided to push the R&B angle - after all we all know what direction the next album took...

sorry mate but C&D is not a bad album, its got two bad songs otherwise it rocks!

before you ask right the wrong and Same December

Other than those two songs if it had been released by Oasis, critics would still be raving about it

bananacologne said:

Reponding ...
NME,Davideye

1. I did not agree with Prince for doing it just explaining.He should have known that it would not work.

2. IMO he did grow up !It may not be in a manner that is appealing to fans.

3. Warners R&B division sucked !If they weren't promoting the music in the A division they weren't going to do it in the B division.In 1991/1992 "Urban"artists were just as marketable as "pop". It was no need to do it period .
Prince never needed to get back his core audience we were always here & he has said that many times.