gyro34 said:

I was going 2 ask a question about the song but 1st lemme just say that I'm proud of of telling his point of view str8 up bald like that. It maybe an angry song but its never a bitter song.

Now back 2 the question, in the intermission b4 the "miror, miror"-verse. The "Abu Cah" dude appeared and he(Prince) kinda confused me with that. "Abu Cah" Is an Arabic/Muslim name, what do Jews have to do with this one? I'm just wondering tho.

The God, Man, Women order is in the bible, even the christian bible(which i read)...and if u study that section it means that man could not make it alone, which is why women were created...so dont let that offend U because truth is that women are just as important as men, in fact women are more important that men...and I am a male.

doegx said:

It still places things in an order, with women below men. That's offensive, period. I don't care where it was written or who wrote it.

Harlepolis said:

I think it has to do with the name Abu Cah is given by the white man--Tom Lynch. Is Lynch Jewish?
[This message was edited Mon Jun 30 20:57:20 PDT 2003 by gyro34]

In a weird way I dig that he's recently put out music that has a significant group of listeners bothered by it's message again. It's been too long since I had to think twice about what he was saying. Granted, I find a good portion of it disturbing, but I'll take that over being bored any day.

By the way, I always took the "theocratic order" to be a rejection of the Trinity and an affirmation of the Supremacy of "Jehovah". Thus 1+1+1=3 not 1+1+1=1.

Universaluv said:

Thank you for posting this. I never really thought about it like this. He has made music that bored me like NPS, Rave, and Emancipation. I guess I'll take TRC over those anyday.

Holocaust aside, many lived and died
But when all truth is told, would you rather be dead or sold?

This is the line that still makes me feel icky when I hear it. Ruins the best song on the album.

Prince clearly told "us" during the listening sessions about TRC, which was this album will be a soul searching album.That TRC will make you look into who YOU are as a person.

The first posting on the original Org after the listening sessions (Celebration 2001) was very negative.The second was an e-mail that was highly positive.When I heard the album post 9-11, I cried.

Many DO NOT WANT to confront the issues that Prince voiced in that album.Racism.The Theocratic order( GOD is ruling this thing y'all so dont worry).His own career (Everlasting Now).It's deep & many just want a quickee instead of true committment.

Loved it and going to listen now !

One more thing in regards to the quote..."Holocaust aside ..."

There is an ongoing debate about which was worse 1.The Jewish Holocaust or 2.The Black experence in America.

The question is which is worse being dead or being sold ?

The answer resides in the INDIVIDUAL, the listener, not Prince.

muleFunk said:

If that's true, it's pathetic and disgusting. Why compare and compete between atrocities? That just keeps the victims at each other's throats and lets the oppressors keep keeping 'em down.

Divide and rule! Divide and rule!

IT'S THE DEVIL'S WAY NOW/ THERE IS NO WAY OUT/ YOU CAN SCREAM & YOU/ CAN SHOUT/ IT IS TOO LATE NOW/ BECAUSE/ YOU HAVE NOT BEEN PAYING ATTENTION

All hail to the thief!

wasitgood4u said:[quote]

muleFunk said:

If that's true, it's pathetic and disgusting. Why compare and compete between atrocities? That just keeps the victims at each other's throats and lets the oppressors keep keeping 'em down.

Divide and rule! Divide and rule!

IT'S THE DEVIL'S WAY NOW/ THERE IS NO WAY OUT/ YOU CAN SCREAM & YOU/ CAN SHOUT/ IT IS TOO LATE NOW/ BECAUSE/ YOU HAVE NOT BEEN PAYING ATTENTION

All hail to the thief![/quote




AGREED !

Both stories need to be told ever chance we get to tell it !

I find this thread interesting because, to me, the songs 1+1+1 is 3 and Muse 2 the Pharoah are so different.

The criticism of 1+1+1 is that he uses the "theocratic order" phrase, but which order is he referring to? God, Man, Woman...or the Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? If its the first one then I think its easy to argue that Prince doesn't advocate a paternal hierarchy just by going back through his catalogue. You could also argue that since he's embraced "the feminine" in ways few popular artists ever have, we shouldn't be so quick to interpret him as being paternalistic. Besides, most modern day Christians (this from a woman friend who's a baptist minister AND prince fan) just take the God Man Woman order as a triangle with Man and Woman at the base...i.e. equal.
So my interpretation of the song is 'hey baby wassup? as long as you know its about God first then Us, it's all good and we can do this', LOL

Now, someone said Muse to the Pharoah is about subjugation of women..and comparing the two holocausts. This song is SO SO all over the place, I wonder how people can say "its about this or that" with such confidence.
First of all, I don't remember learning much about Pharoahs in the bit of bible school i did go to, LoL. But, Proverbs 31-10 is basically just "hey, if you find a good one/"virtuous woman', hold onto her". What I make of this song is that the Pharoah-Muse thing is mainly a vibe. Pharoah wasn't exactly the most positive role as far as the Hebrews and thus Christians and the writers were concerned right?

And "would you rather be dead or be sold?" is rhetorical... the point might be that they're kinda similar. (which is where Family Name comes in... African families were 'killed': the names and histories forever taken away... relatives dead to their ancestors and vice versa...and of course Black families were consciously separated throughout slavery in the Americas to ensure family ties weren't a threat to power)

So, okay...its just a symbol for a woman inspiring her man. That's what a muse does, right? whether or not you're talking about patriarchy. So hmm... a woman of virtue with the power to inspire? I'm in that line, point me to her!! Heh heh. And if you want to take it there, I could say I acknowledge the power i have as a man in modern western society. I can't instantly change it on the grand scale, but I can in my own kingdom. So I'm going to use my power as a Pharaoh to elevate a special woman to be my Queen, my partner, I prefer she be one who has virtue and captivates my mind...who can push me to higher levels ("..aspire 2 be higher admire.." ).

I love these two songs because they both just vibe so well AND he's laying vocals that make me pause and think. I'm not a practicing Christian, but I can appreciate the over/undertones the same way I did with "7".

whew... now i'm hongry and my head hurts, lol..
[This message was edited Wed Jun 18 11:47:06 PDT 2003 by JumpUpOnThe1]

Harlepolis said:

I think that your mother is saying that Prince is covering too many issues in one album(race, sex, government and sex roles). The way in which he presents those issues is MESSY and confusing. If one has to be African-American to get it, isn't he addressing African-Americans only? OR Does he intend for fans of different ethnicities to discuss the album?

I seem to remember most of the controversy came when P was preforming and asking white peops their surname and then changing it up...

anyone else???

Aannastesia said:

I wasn't there. What were the White people saying?