Prince doesn't need to paid by anybody!

uh..no..I didn't feel offended. What happened cannot be denied...only thing that hurts is to be put into a box with other people. Prince is free to celebrate his heritage anytime IMO...

edit is better
[This message was edited Fri Jun 13 9:52:42 PDT 2003 by agotajonesmartha]

like i said b4, what is Prince doing to further the cause? he's talkin' it, but is he walkin' it too?

paisleypark4 said:

You're one crazy riot motherfucka

I wasn't offended... I perfectly feel what he says...

I have never been offended by any of Prince's lyrics because they are just his opinions, and not necessarily true.

With regards to lyrics involving race, I am not offended because I acknowledge there are problems, and those that he is attacking are not at all me.

Why would I be offended? I love this song, and many others. Do you think that caucasions can't appreciate songs that deal with racial inequality, is that it? I'm not sure why you'd think white people would be offended by this. Just wondering.

So strange, whenever I hear discussion of the Holocaust it's usually coupled with a statement as to how we should never forget. However, African-americans discussing their past just need to "move on".

Universaluv said:

Good point, but I think you are missing the purpose.

When people talk about the holocaust or 9/11 etc, they talk about never forgetting, as meaning "remember the wrong doing, but learn from it".

In the instance of the holocaust, or World War II for that matter, time has moved on and the German nation is accepted for what it is, that being, a peace loving friendly nation which learned from its mistakes.

When african-americans are told to "move on" it is not meant as a "forget about it", but as a "move forward" remark.

I had family members killed in world war II, by the Germans of the time. Nowdays, I love going to Germany. Should I be asking them "When will I be paid?"

I think White people do need to understand far more about minorities and the grievences out there.

However, I think many blacks need to stop protesting about the problem, and come up with some solutions for the others to think about.

If anyone comes to the table with a problem, but no ideas for solutions, all they have done is brought another problem.

Thats why we are in a never ending circle.

So we can't similarly learn from the past of African Americans? By the way the establishment of a modern Israeli state didn't just coincidentally happen after WWII. It was direclty linked to the suffering they'd endured.

Moreover, you seem to assume that African Americans haven't come to the table with any proposed solutions. I seriously doubt that we've made the progress we have based solely on the generosity of enlightened white people. Heck, the implied subject of this thread (reparations) arguably contains a proposed solution. Granted, it's a proposal that not everyone, including African Americans, agrees with, but it is "at the table." Whatever the solution, ignoring the past and pretending everything is cool nowadays certainly isn't the answer.

What's truly sad is that the history and current state of African-Americans is often seen as a particularly "black" concern that we need to address ourselves. If we're all truly equal and race shouldn't matter, then the history is American history, the problems of African-Americans are American problems that should be the concern of all Americans black, white, etc.

SquirrelMeat said:

[This message was edited Fri Jun 13 12:29:29 PDT 2003 by Universaluv]

Romance1600 said:

I guess I should really be reading these posts but when I saw your avatar, well, I thought it was hilarious! That's got to be one of the funniest things I've ever seen on this board.

paisleypark4 said:

Hell no. It was told like it was. I ain't going to ignor history. This song is a reminder of how we used to be, and how we must never become again.

I try to avoid the awful new music Prince has made, but I liked that song (a bit), but Prince needs to pay us--not the other way around.

We are more a class conscious society, then a racist one; or compared to the bad/old days. The poor should get paid and the rich should go fuck themselves.

2freaky4church1 said:

i hear dat!

Harlepolis said:

i seem 2 make people laugh when i dont mean it 2 b funny LOL!

UptownDeb said:

I live to give.

Truth only offends those who deny it.

I was offended. Offended at the injustice he did to that song! Nah, I'm just joking. Its a good song that has something to say. I don't particularly agree with reparations but he's free to think what he thinks!

am i black or white, am i straight or gay, controversy.

controversy.

Depends upon who's expected to do the paying?

NO! (but then, I'm semitic, not caucasian, if u're gonna divide ppl in2 "races" - which in my opinionn is a racist move to begin with.)

What's there 2 offend? Powerful song.

40 acres & a mule etc.

BTW, whoever mentioned the Holocaust: 1 of the ways of "moviung forward" was by demanding "reparations" - financial compensation for all the property that was expropriated from Jews (and Gypsies and others) during the Nazi regime. Israel was paid large reparations, as were survivors directly. The struggle is still going on, and there was recently a decision forcing coirporations which used Jewish, Gypsy and other slave labor in Nazi Germany, to pay compensation to Holocaust survivors.

TO me, this is a significant precedent. Surely there must be one or two companies still around which used Black slave labor in the US. COuldn't they be forced 2 pay reparations?

Was the 40 Acre and a Mule clause revoked or just never implemented? If it's still on the law-books, couldn't its value b estimated, and the US government b forced 2 pay it into a fund 2 help poor urban blacks?

I like the song. I wasn't offended. My only thought was, the people that deserve to be paid are dead and the people that did them injustice are also dead. So the answer to this question is never. But, thanks for the good song, Prince.

SquirrelMeat said:

I understand what you state. But we don't get an understanding comment like: "I feel your pain, but try to see past it through prayer and perserverence." No. It is a "dog dude, why don't you just get over it!" See? I don't sit back on welfare waiting for a check thinking the country owe's me so I won't work. No but I push my gig to the max. Then I am working on a record label on the side that take's up a lot of my time.

But when many of us try to get "ahead" or past the "feeling of inferiority", not that we feel it mind you, "other's" feel it. Meaning "some" white's in higher positions that you have to get through to become successful. Either they want a "share" of what you own through a "secured" loan.. or something else. Get it? If not I'll try to explain it a little better..

What white man is going to give a black man "in the same corporation" the chance to become partner in his business? It rarely happen's. When I start to see "that" in a big way I will certainly change my opinion. Every building I go to in my current job I see white people crawling up the ladder year's quicker than blacks, and we do the "same" job. Example.. I work a certain job, and have done this job particularly well for over 10 years. A new white person come's in, who has not been doing this job as long, and get's the same amount of money I get?

Then in 7 month's time mind you.. "becomes my manager"??.. Why? Because the floor supervisor "know's" this youth from another company where they formally worked together. It happens all the time. The black's at my job were hot. Including me. The office is predominently black. But all we see is white supervisor's and manager's. That is fact. Now, this has happened so many times in the past I cannot list them. People say quit, or move on. What? Then I lose my medical, 401k, and insurance. See? It is a trap. Then I start out as a rookie at another establishment. Then this same instance reoccur's. This is just "one" scenerio.
[This message was edited Sun Jun 15 8:00:38 PDT 2003 by jojofran]

lovebird said:

What?? What in the world? That is exactly what I am talking about! And "that" particular thinking is what I hate. You entitled and all that other jazz to your opinion but I think it is flawed! Totally off base. What about the families of the people that were slave's lovebird?? What about their offspring?? Ever see Roots lovebird??

When they were freed where did they go lovebird? Many of them had no place to go and had to still stay with white owner's just to live! They didn't free the slave's and give them a big fat check for all of the forced labor!! They were like "see ya sucka! Thanks for all of the help on my property! And to all of you beautiful black young women who are carrying my child.. Thanks for the good ole time. Yeeehaaa!"

You think white people were glad to see their slave's and their concubine's of forced black nookie leave? No. They and their family's, your ancestor's, made sure it would be nearly impossible to move on. And if we did move on and get a little bit of something.. Since virtually everything was white' owned you think we could become co-owner's? Please. This thought permeate's down until this day! Sorry it does.

That incenses me. As I get incensed when I see threads like why does Prince praise the Williams sister's? What? Hold up! Is it because of the extra mental battle they had and have to go through to get to the top and become number one? See on the internet people are more free with their word's. Why? Because they can be racist's without being seen. And you talkin' some never stuff. Typical. I don't class all white's with your ideology but just the thought that someone who is over me in management "possibly" could share those same sentiments is revolting.

jojofran said:

So what exactly are you wanting black people to be paid? Is there are value that would undo all that has been done by and to people long since dead?

$50,000 a head we'll call it even huh?

Mr Bush get your cheque book out!


.
[This message was edited Sun Jun 15 9:53:51 PDT 2003 by Romance1600]

jojofran said:

Oh my goodness! Did you just say "Yeeehaaa!" What kind of stereotypical crap is that? I don't know where to start with this post...After the slaves were freed, they may not have had anywhere to go but they made it through anyway. The state of black Americans in the country has improved leaps and bounds over where we were even fifty years ago. Instead of trying to come up with solutions the race problems in America, some people would rather sit around and be angry for what they think we have coming to us. Reparations are not going to happen. Call me a sell-out, but if it were ever a reality, I would not want any part of it. I don't want anything I didn't work long and hard and earn myself. If we are going to have a discussion about race in this country, we need to also discuss the problems within our own community and how we ourselves perpetuate a lot of the negative stereotypes that contribute to any perceived or real mistreatment by other races. What about all the hard work of those ancestors to instill a sense of pride of who we are and those who died for the rights of all people to be free? What would they think today if they would look at the way we let ourselves be portrayed in the media, or how we sell drugs to our own people in our neighbors or how we display our women as sex objects more than any other race. What are we as a people going to do about that crap? I read in another one of your posts about how white people give each other jobs over someone black in he company, forgive me for paraphrasing. Do you really believe that if you or another person of color where in the same position, you would be fair enough to give it to the person who deserved it? Could it be that this person knew that person and since he was in the position he was in, he gave it to whom he wanted? Is it even possible it had nothing to do with racism? Have you ever gotten a job because of who you know? I have. If things like this are such a problem, anyone is more than free to go out and get their own. Anything is possible. I personally don't buy into "the man is keeping us down" mentality. I believe lovebird is right, our ancestors are owed the debt, we can help to repay them by not destroying the foundation they laid for us and trying to make the world a better place for our future generations. My two cents.

Romance1600 said:

Whatever amount someone comes up with, people would still say it's not enough.

stymie said:

Read my whole post and you will see that I address the same concerns as you do in those other area's. My post is to show that we are far away from being equal. I don't talk about bigotry much. But I will certainly post truth. I didn't apply my statement's again to "all whites"... I also stated that there are "ignorant blacks" as well. I also stated that blacks need to check themselve's too. Malcolm X had a lot of true statements he stated regarding race relation's. I don't believe them all. But some I strongly believe.

And I know some black's don't feel as strongly as I do. But I don't care. Some black's are so caught up in other things such as rap music or sex and drugs that they don't even realize where we have come from, or the fight and flight of our relative's in this country. Don't get it all twisted. It is what it is. I don't want to hear a "could it be, or is it possible." I know what I know by self experience.

This issue was brought up a short while back with the whole Moors In Spain fandango, here were my thoughts on the matter then from http://www.prince.org/msg...&tid=49517 :

VelvetSplash said:
Hmmm, well I can see that black people are still hurt over what happened to their ancestors - so I can see your point.

But a rapist's great, great grandchild has no responsiblity to the to victims great, great grandchild.

Digital Lisa said:
guess the real question is... then who responsibilties is it?

Easy to blame, hard to heal no one takes action and the cycle repeats


VelvetSplash said:
The crime was comitted by people long since dead.

So it is the responsibility of ALL of us to make sure it never happens again, and that we stamp out racism whereever we see it.

As for the black people still hurting over past events, I think they would find resolivng the issue within themselves helpful.

Digital Lisa said:
but the thing is... our history was basically stolen from us, they don't teach it to us in school and if we don't know the truth of what really wen't don't how could we even begin to heal? It's if a black person really wants to find out what happened, he has to look for it on his own, cuz otherwise he'd be ignorant, living in the dark not knowing, that's what y'all don't seem to understand...

VelvetSplash said:
I agree that is disgusting - but the responsiblity for teaching this doesn't lie with all white people, it lies with the educational bodies and government of your country - which are white men yes, but don't tar all white people with the same brush - taring all black people with the same brush is often referred to as stereotyping and being racist


___

To be honest, I don't think it's black v white at all, it's the rich elite and 'powerful' abusing those 'below' them - divide and conquer, rape and pillage, it's been going on since the dawn of human civilisation, and those bloodlines of the people in power today date right back to ancient times (old money) - the treatment of black people is just one part of this.

jojofran said:

I went back and read all of your posts and I apologize if it appears that I blew up. It's just that when I saw that "Yeeehaaa!" comment, it upset me.

nah