Man, I didn't see this thread blowing up like this when it first started. I'm not as well read as I should be, but I pretty much followed everything that's been said. BlacqueKnight you blew me away. You're a heavy brother. Wish that I could put the words together like that. Chemmie, I understand a lot of what you are saying, but I've got to take exception with the colorblind society thing, whether you're referring to kids or not. I don't know what race you are, so I'll use myself as an example. If a white, asian, or whatever person looks at me and say that they don't see that I'm black, then aren't they denying the obvious. I am black. Don't deny what is an important part of who I am. See that I'm black, acknowledge that I'm black, and accept me as a black man. This isn't an attack on you, just a correction. You're cool with me. One more thing that I want to throw out there (and I don't know all of the fine print on this thing), for the longest time, I assumed that African Americans had the right to vote. Well, we do, but that right has to be voted on every few years(not sure how many) by the powers that be in D.C. Equal playing field? Not yet. Not close! What if they decided that blacks shouldn't/couldn't vote? What other race of people in the U.S. have their voting rights up for a decision.
Okay. The soapbox is free now. I know that this didn't contribute to the Prince discussion, but the door was open.


Peace

See what you started Anji:)

BlaqueKnight said:

:NO:

WOW. everybody's blwoing me away with some heavy and insightful points. Ok. BLacqueknight-you really HIt me like
a drum with your points!!!1 (i'll high 5 ya man!)

and s-rose (great words again)

i've been into music for ages. and am probably considerably
older than most people in this community and have seen and
heard it all from the 50's rock & r& b stars and know its
Will always be a tug of war for black performers. (this isn't a knock against white artists-i have a lot of those
GUYS in my all-time fave list) this is just the way its
always been. to be fair to prince ,the choice he made to
"take some of the "black" out of his style wasn't much
different than what sam cooke (and company) had to do to
get a larger piece of the pie. its easy for us fans to say
what an artists should or shouldn't do and that THEY should
sTAY true to "their vision or their race"...but lets get
REAL. many artists will chose going for success than being
'DOWN" with the peeps.

does that make it right? probably not. but that's not the
issue. sometimes an artist will stay popular with their
original fandom just by doing the same thing.
luther vandross is a good example of this. i dig luther but
musically he's never really done anything different.

he's still got the same fans (mostly black and very female!)

prince wanted to be different from day one. he didn't want to be STuck in stereotypical 'black artist syndrome"-which
is where the media put him in the minute they saw him.

"he's a stevie wonder,smokey robinson type of black guy
with a "vaguely feminine look"...lets market him as THIS!'

jimi had the saem problem in the 60's. his basic guitar
style was Blues. but that weird dressing of his was ROCK
and he played like the white rock gods! so he was marketed
as a rock artist. i knew blacks who HATED HIM. and thought
he was a sell-out and at the same time he was going through
pressure from blacks he knew that wanted him to COME out
and BE A black man!
(the funny thing was-before he went the britain to reinvent
himself-he was BLACk, he played with the isley for a year
or so-he's on TESTIFY circa 1964...he played all of the major black venues doin' his thang and it got him nowhere
financially. basically he had to "change" to survive.

but back to prince (who is a definite JIMI "child") b-knight
is right about the 80's and what mj and prince did to
get their FAME. i don't get on either artist too much-cuz
i know a BLACK star has to make a decision-stay HERE and
keep my "street credibility" or GO out THERE...and get the
BIG money!

if you go OUT there the rewards are WONDERFUl...but it
almost always comes with a price.

to go back to sam cooke (a true giant) in some circles he
never got a segment of the HIS people when he went secular.

b-knight is right. prince did lose many of the people that
were down with him like i was from day one.

is that fair? who's to say. all i saying about this is i'm
a realistic music fan who goes back a long way. i tell you
people it ain't easy being a black artist.
especially if you wanna do something a little different.

why i didn't drop prince? cuz i'm more realistic and know
i can't play GOD and tell him to what he should do.
as i've often said...i don't care much about prince as a
person (he can be a jerk and so- and so on) but as a
musician-artist...i hold the brothas (yep he's a brotha-no
matter what people think) in very high esteem.

on his rock n roll roots: some blacks don't know their music
history well (black blues artists were THE GUITAR gods
40-50's ) and tended to look at guys like prince,lenny k
as trying to be like the WHITE rock guys..well sorry but
check history out-t-bone walker,bb albert king,buddy guy
johnny guitar watson were KICkin' ass and doin' 'let's
go crazy WAy before videos existed.

what i;m saying is prince's rock period wasn't understood
by a lot of blacks...but sorry y'all-he was falling in
the footsteps of some HEAVY black guitar masters.

granted he looked weird and sort of "gay"! but like when
you listened...really listened. he was still a BLack guy.

still is. and always will be.

i'm not putting down my people . i'm just being real and
getting off on b-knight excellent thread.

mj's situation is another story for another thread...

peace out y'all...youngca

Hi June,
I read your post with great interest. Only one problem. You talk about the black community without stating the things Prince himself did to distance himself from that community.

---
For many years within the black community there have been "those" that have had negative comments on Prince's lifestyle. Many have commented on the fact he hasn't been "seen" with a dark skinned woman. Many have commented that he can't choose between doing "black" R&B or "white" rock & roll. Also in the late eighties with the development of gansta rap...many rappers made comments that black men should not be running like sissys with eye liner and their hair straight...kinda like a direct aim at Prince and similar male recording artists...
---

First of all about Prince and women of colour. I am sure I was not the only one who noticed that the Only time we ever saw a dark skinned sister in any Prince project was in "Under The Cherry Moon" when we saw a brief glimpse of what he did not want to go back to. But whatever his tastes in women are is his business. Also wasn't it Prince who lied and said he was part Italian/part Black. When both his parents are black?
I agree with you though. The renewed maleness in music made the straightend hair obsolete. Frankly I see this as a positive thing. Black musicians have been 'conking' and doing other harmful practices to their hair for generations. Asserting ones natural features is great. It also marks a recognision that ones good given feature are beautiful.

---
But the unfortunate age old issue...skin color. We all know that Prince a light skinned black male. Sad to say the issue of color is and will always be an issue within the black race. Prince has always been attacked with the community for this feature (which of course is not his fault). Many light skinned blacks go through this type of "self racism."
---

None of the biographies I have read ever said that Prince endured any negative treatment for being fair-skinned. His first group to embrace him was the black media and the black community. It was when he wanted to grow his audience and cross-over that prince began to reinvent his racial identity. He took several steps to do this. Claiming to be of mixed race, replacing black musicians with white ones.etc. Also if you look at his skin colour on the first two albums, you can see that his skin appears darker than it has since. Hmmm. Maybe Michael Jackson was not the only one who did some bleaching.
To be fair though. The early eighties was a lot different than now. It was hard for a black artist to find that cross-over audience, and the prevailing wisdom was to be less "black" in order to do that. Not now. It is really cool to be a black man today. Girls of all colors want ya. Plus with hip-hop being at the forefront of music and popular culture. Nuff said.
I think its a cruel irony that both Prince and MJ are now more determined than ever to reclaim there original colour when for a large part of the last two decades they were trying to distance themselves from it. But don't blaim the "black community". The "black" community has given these brothers nothing but love. If anything blame the system that for so long made it hard for black men to be themselves and succeed.

...

Everybody's on this thread.
It's like the old org when one hot thread was the hang out and attracted hundreds of posts.

Thanks, Anji!

I dont think that questioning Colin Powell's or Dr. Rice's "blackness" is a good thing for african-americans. They are positive black role models. They are highly educated and have received tremendous honors. Regardless of their political leanings, they should be looked up to and not put down.

the whole Tolerance thing...
I meant no harm using the word Tolerance. I was using it to describe how whites in this country once could not tolerate blacks. Weather they were in the same schools, same water fountains or in the back of the bus. This racial tolerance has changed for the better. I see whites growing beyond seeing the skin color. Granted, there is still a long long way to go, but progress is being made. In this case, Tollerance = acceptance.

"Condoleeza Rice,Colin Powell and Clarence Thomas hold some of the highest posts ever in American government.They should be looked upon and never put down"



Why? Because they're Black people with high positions in a Republican administration?? I can't see why you think Blacks should automatically hail them as "heroes",especially when over 80 percent of Blacks are registered Democrats.And besides,what have they done for the Black community anyway?


...
[This message was edited Tue Jun 3 4:50:07 PDT 2003 by DavidEye]

its funny-one of my favorite bands he had was the second
one-with lisa,fink,dez,andre,and bobby z.

like sly stone a racially mixed group with a girl (who was
gay!) they all dressed weird and the brothas dez.prince and
andre didn't look like the guys i knew from the hood!

still dez,prince & andre were HUGE faves of mine -cuz they
could ROCK their asses off...and still were funky.

this band TOOK no prisoners. the revolution got more fame
than these guys but to me this group was REAl.

Everybody's on this thread.
It's like the old org when one hot thread was the hang out and attracted hundreds of posts.

Thanks, Anji!

What about Nona Gaye, Rosi Gaines, Cat??? All darker-skinned women. By the way, Nona Gaye was featured alongside Natalie Cole in last month's Essence magazine. Unfortunately she talks about how Prince treated her. They had been dating for 3 years and she was VERY young...about 18 or 19 when they recorded "Love Sign." She said that they were very much in love and he had promised to marry her, but then they broke up and 3 weeks later he was with Mayte. The media NEVER really publicized their relationship...AND remember that she is the daughter of Marvin Gaye. He never dated Rosie, but she was ALWAYS presented as a sexy woman even though she is big. And whatever happened to Cat? Does anyone know what she's doing now???

I never understood where the confusion came from.