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Printablemistermcgee said: DonRants said: Mr. Mcgee - take the red pill and get the hell out of the matrix. "Black Demagogues" are not the reason for not straigthening ones hair. Good old common sense will tell you it is not a healthy practise to straigthen your hair with chemicals or by burning it with a hot iron. Ask an elderly Black woman what chemicals and straightening did to her hair and note the answer you get.They will all tell you that over time it ruins your hair. Madame CJ, Walker said she wanted to prove that black people could have "beautiful hair' too. Meaning she did not consider her natural hair beautiful. Which is the programming many black people have received to this day. We were told that our natural hair is "nappy" and did not see how unique and beautiful it is. A lot of us are now realising this was bullshit and are choosing other hairstyles Idreadlocks, braids etc.) which do not involve destroying your natural hair in an attempt to meet a Europeanized standard of beauty. Perhaps the best discussion of Black musicians and straightening hair can be found in "The Autobiography of Malcolm X". I suggest you read it, but you probably consider him a demagogue. You hit the nail on the head when you said "choosing"...CHOICE. If you choose to wear dreads, braids, afros, etc. fine and well. If others CHOOSE to relax or hot comb it does not mean they are programmed. It means they are FREE to choose. They are no less black. I know of older black women who have done it all their lives and they still have a healthy looking full head of hair. Moderation is the key. Most damage comes from over processing-too much too frequently. But again, my point is CHOICE. Just as we black people come in all hues and colors, from high yellow to very dark, so too, a myriad of hair textures and styles, covering the full spectrum is fine by me. My own children cover a full spectrum of hair textures. I have kids with hair as fine as white people's to kids with hair like lamb's wool. Same daddy(me), same mama(my wife). I don't want white people saying you have to process, but I don't want some black people saying you shouldn't or can't. CHOICE. I don't think matters of straightening hair for blacks nowadays has much to do with trying to fit into the "European standard of beauty"...I think it has far more simply to do with the culture of personal expression which has blossomed over the past decade or so (at least here in America). Self-expression thru clothes, music, cars, even jobs...and yes, thru our hair...it's more personal statement than self-loathing...some blacks who straighten their hair want the versatility that straight hair gives them to change their look literally hourly...some others just like how they look with bangs...lol...and you can't have versatility and bangs with a short 'fro...I do believe that for many blacks, their hair choice boils down to something as simple as that...and let's face it, Snoop Dog and Ice T were far more likely to be inspirations for young black males to go with straight hair than any european standard of beauty being forced upon them in school and society... By the way, if we reject the European standard of beauty, which culture's or nationality's standard of beauty should we accept??...Is it any better to adopt an Asian standard of beauty??...Or an African one?... Perhaps the only valid standard of beauty anyone should live up to, is their own individual, personal one...and if their own individual, personal standard of beauty says "I want straight hair today", I say go for it...safely...  | |
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youngca said: where i came from-the brothas would make cracks about prince's clothes,look,and his predominae use of his falsetto (aw man he's a...) but they'd also dig him as musician. You know, I do remember friends constantly saying Prince was a f**, but they kept playing his music and going to his concerts, even was he was on stage in underwear and a raincoat! youngca said: prince having a heavy rock style of playing guitar (and his rock-look) got a lot of the bros on his case-which i found silly because: blacks created ROCk. Hmm. My experience was actually quite different. I remember many little black boys I knew who never listened to rock, started to after hearing Little Red Corvette. My brother and I couldnt' believe it when Corvette was on WGCI (we were in 6th and 7th grades). At that time we didn't know Prince or that he was black. But we strangely dug the different music. Then, we learned more about him as an artist, we went wild! He was so intriguing and mysterious. Frankly, we didn't care what stereotypes he broke because he was so damn good. I remember my cousin,who listened exclusively to black musicians, playing air guitar for Let's Go Crazy. Prince pushed everyone into the ethnic gray area. I loved that. | |
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Anji said: I'm interested to know who actually decided to play-down Prince's race from the start. I'm certain Prince would not have had the commercial sense to understand how things might have been predjudiced against him, given that he was very young and inexperienced. One theory is that his management/Warners may have gently coached him on the race issue in terms of how he approached the media.
 I don't think it was a purposeful, conspiratorial-like decision...I think Prince's business/artistic decisions grew from a myriad of things, and was most likely very fluid and accomodating from one moment to the next...it's been linked to everything from crossover marketing decisions by the honchos as WB, to Prince's love of creating mystery (let's face it, he created the likes of Jaime Starr, complete with background history...not too much of a surprise he'd wanna do that with his own history as well)... | |
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Anji said: I'm interested to know who actually decided to play-down Prince's race from the start. I'm certain Prince would not have had the commercial sense to understand how things might have been predjudiced against him, given that he was very young and inexperienced. One theory is that his management/Warners may have gently coached him on the race issue in terms of how he approached the media.
hmmm don't think so. when they signed him, they thought they'd signed the next Stevie Wonder. so i think that theory is way off. you know fine well that Prince's artistic direction and image has awlays been down to prince. even if that meant going head to head with the top dogs @ Warners. I don't see him going "no, i won't re-record any of Dirty Mind. it's supposed to be dirty and raw - that's the point. Oh, what, you want me to whiten up a bit... okay, cool" | |
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NME said: Anji said: I'm interested to know who actually decided to play-down Prince's race from the start. I'm certain Prince would not have had the commercial sense to understand how things might have been predjudiced against him, given that he was very young and inexperienced. One theory is that his management/Warners may have gently coached him on the race issue in terms of how he approached the media.
hmmm don't think so. when they signed him, they thought they'd signed the next Stevie Wonder. so i think that theory is way off. you know fine well that Prince's artistic direction and image has awlays been down to prince. even if that meant going head to head with the top dogs @ Warners. I don't see him going "no, i won't re-record any of Dirty Mind. it's supposed to be dirty and raw - that's the point. Oh, what, you want me to whiten up a bit... okay, cool" Do we overestimate Prince's commercial sense in bringing to light the music he was making at that time? I think credit is due to Prince's management for allowing it to be heard untouched, and promoting it to a captive audience. Dirty Mind, 1999 and Purple Rain are classic examples of promoting an image. It goes without saying that the music stands up too. | |
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wellbeyond said: Anji said: I'm interested to know who actually decided to play-down Prince's race from the start. I'm certain Prince would not have had the commercial sense to understand how things might have been predjudiced against him, given that he was very young and inexperienced. One theory is that his management/Warners may have gently coached him on the race issue in terms of how he approached the media.
I don't think it was a purposeful, conspiratorial-like decision...I think Prince's business/artistic decisions grew from a myriad of things, and was most likely very fluid and accomodating from one moment to the next...it's been linked to everything from crossover marketing decisions by the honchos as WB, to Prince's love of creating mystery (let's face it, he created the likes of Jaime Starr, complete with background history...not too much of a surprise he'd wanna do that with his own history as well)... | |
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Anji said: DavidEye said: Mani is black?? What do you think she is, David?
I always assumed she was Italian,but I guess I was wrong. | |
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DavidEye said: Anji said: DavidEye said: Mani is black?? What do you think she is, David?
I always assumed she was Italian,but I guess I was wrong. | |
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DonRants said: Hi June,
OK your points are well taken. You are right about the complaints against Artist who have seeked the cross-over. However it has been a long time since that has been leveled at Prince. Mr. Mcgee - take the red pill and get the hell out of the matrix. "Black Demagogues" are not the reason for not straigthening ones hair. Good old common sense will tell you it is not a healthy practise to straigthen your hair with chemicals or by burning it with a hot iron. Ask an elderly Black woman what chemicals and straightening did to her hair and note the answer you get.They will all tell you that over time it ruins your hair. Madame CJ, Walker said she wanted to prove that black people could have "beautiful hair' too. Meaning she did not consider her natural hair beautiful. Which is the programming many black people have received to this day. We were told that our natural hair is "nappy" and did not see how unique and beautiful it is. A lot of us are now realising this was bullshit and are choosing other hairstyles Idreadlocks, braids etc.) which do not involve destroying your natural hair in an attempt to meet a Europeanized standard of beauty. Perhaps the best discussion of Black musicians and straightening hair can be found in "The Autobiography of Malcolm X". I suggest you read it, but you probably consider him a demagogue. --- I personally don't buy into the so-called "afro-centric" mindset that says that unless you wear your hair "natural" you are trying to be white, manifesting a slave mentality, and rejecting or hating your own culture or race(a self-hatred). From what I gather, a black woman, Madame C.J. Walker, a chemist, created the scalp and hair conditioner to help heal scalp and hair problems, hair softener/relaxer to help black people with making their hair more manageable, etc. She became a millionaire and I see no shame or degredation in that. "I am a woman who came from the cotton fields of the South. From there I was promoted to the washtub. From there I was promoted to the cook kitchen. And from there I promoted myself into the business of manufacturing hair goods and preparations...I have built my own factory on my own ground" Madam Walker, National Negro Business League Convention, July 1912 Then I started looking at how ancient Egyptians cared for their hair. After all, Egypt is on the African continent and was one of the first great civilizations. So if you wanna go back to the "motherland" shouldn't you look there as well as the rest of the continent? I came to find out that the Egyptians used various oils, such as linseed oil. sesame oil,olive oil, for hair care. The oils were used to improve the hair's managability, texture, and appearance. They also, shaved their hair off and wore wigs or extensions made from real human hair and plant fibers. Henna was used on hair, nails, and skin. Black people have had enough of the white man seeking to "define" what it means to be black, but we don't need a bunch of politically correct black demagogues now drumming in our heads what it means to be black either. Nobody ever says anything about certain women bleaching their hair so they can be blonde ,but people always have something to say about sisters(or brothers)straightening their hair,I don't feel like spending an eternity trying to get a comb through this hair when its kinky,so I get relaxers. Don't like it,then YOU come to my house and work with it everyday!! I DON'T WANT TO BE NORMAL,because normal is part of the status quo,which I don't want to be a part of- Tori Amos | |
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SynthiaRose said: DonRants, thank-you. You've saved me from having to say so much.
1. It was Prince who attempted to distance himself from the black community, not vice versa. 2. As a black woman, I've never resisted Prince's prediliction for rock music or considered rock to be a non-black musical genre (consider the roots). Rock is actually my favorite genre and it pangs me that he sways mostly toward funk and R&B now. Growing up in the Chicagoland area, which loves Prince dearly, I've seen his rock songs played on R&B stations all the time. WGCI for example gives him mad support. 3. As far as black men not embracing his effeminate style, look at all the rappers and other black male artists who've begged to redo his records or who've sampled him. Prince's talent and aura made him transcendent. Blacks (and I hate speaking of people as groups) have never turned their backs on Prince. C'mon even Spike Lee and Eddie Murphy loved Prince ... and Murphy used to be hard core testerone. 3. The women: It was Prince's choice to send a message out about the type of woman he wanted by choosing a string of women who all fit the same mode: very light with long hair. He lifted these types up on videos, etc. as the standard of beauty. As a young black girl, of course I subconsciously noticed that and tried to explain it away so I wouldn't resent that he had fallen for the MYTH! It seems now that he's awakening from the myth that all things Euro-centric are superlative. He's doing this as part of a personal journey not because he risked losing his black audience. Blacks would love Prince still, even if he rode down the hood on a pony with long flowing hair and three white women on the back. 4.Yes, there is intraracial prejudice due to variations in skin tone. But while a lighter skin color can attract some censure, generally it's preferred. (Remember "If you're light, you're alright, if you're brown hang around, if you're black get back." Prince grew up when these mentalities prevailed.) Unfortunately, he was probably seen as fine and pretty, largely because of his skin color. He was never hated because of it. 5. Lastly, I don't think Prince's changes have anything to to with him being judged by blacks. I believe it's an outgrowth of the spiritual and cultural assessment he been forced to undergo ever since departing Warner Brothers. While musical freedom/politics were factors, I recall Prince insinuating that he felt undervalued as a person of color. He's been looking inside himself and re-evaluating ever since. [This message was edited Sat May 31 21:28:07 PDT 2003 by SynthiaRose] "Blacks have never turned their backs on Prince" ??? Yeah,okay,and I'm Queen Elizabeth...U NEVER hear any Prince blasting out of cars in the "hood",all I hear is freaking Nelly or Jay-Z or other nonsense,I'm sitting on a bus or train that's crowded with black people,every walkman/CD player is blasting the same old stupid shit that is usually played on black radio these days. It's always our people calling him a fag or corny,and other than D'Angelo,who else(as in young black artists)is mentioning him as an influence? I DON'T WANT TO BE NORMAL,because normal is part of the status quo,which I don't want to be a part of- Tori Amos | |
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DonRants said: ...Also if you look at his skin colour on the first two albums, you can see that his skin appears darker than it has since. Hmmm. Maybe Michael Jackson was not the only one who did some bleaching...
I think its a cruel irony that both Prince and MJ are now more determined than ever to reclaim there original colour when for a large part of the last two decades they were trying to distance themselves from it. But don't blaim the "black community". The "black" community has given these brothers nothing but love. If anything blame the system that for so long made it hard for black men to be themselves and succeed. ... Beautifully put. In the 80s, many black men had to downplay either their skin color or their masculinity to "cross over". Prince & MJ did BOTH and look where it got them. Now its "in" to embrace the age old stereotype of "foolish negro", which compels so many black men to become the foot-shuffling clowns of today known as "rappers". Most of the most successful black males in music today have in some way or another shamed black culture in order to attain success. This is the nature of the music biz; resentment of talent & creativity from black folk. This is why bands like Mint Condition get kicked to the curb for Nelly and crew by the media, yet white artists are encouraged to emulate black music and disect from it. Prince & WB used the black community as a jump off point and then Prince discarded what little cultural connection he had for $$$ to promote integration for the label. For WB, that simply translates to more money from different groups for the same artist. Now karma has come back. Prince knows this and his music started to reflect it a few years ago.Unfortunately for him, he is used as a shining example from the 80s of what NOT to do to become successful. The fact that he is talented as hell is of no consequence in today's society. Black folks embraced Prince from day 1 and many still do but the younger generation sees him as the exact OPPOSITE of what a black male is expected to be appearence-wise. MJ has long since lost the respect of black folks but he's on another planet anyway. Prince doesn't get the "nutty pass" like MJ does because his attempt to"cross over" seemed more deliberate. The black community's general consensus is: "You run with them white folks and try to be white, then don't come back here when they kick you to the curb." [This message was edited Sun Jun 1 13:51:10 PDT 2003 by BlaqueKnight] | |
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gypsyfire said: It's always our people calling him a fag or corny,and other than D'Angelo,who else(as in young black artists)is mentioning him as an influence? Cee-Lo Green of Goodie MOB, Maxwell, Kenny Lattimore and Andre 3000 of Outkast, to name a few. The Normal Whores Club | |
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BlaqueKnight said: DonRants said: ...Also if you look at his skin colour on the first two albums, you can see that his skin appears darker than it has since. Hmmm. Maybe Michael Jackson was not the only one who did some bleaching...
I think its a cruel irony that both Prince and MJ are now more determined than ever to reclaim there original colour when for a large part of the last two decades they were trying to distance themselves from it. But don't blaim the "black community". The "black" community has given these brothers nothing but love. If anything blame the system that for so long made it hard for black men to be themselves and succeed. ... [color=blue:0c52a7f053:b717443316]Beautifully put. In the 80s, many black men had to downplay either their skin color or their masculinity to "cross over". Prince & MJ did BOTH and look where it got them. Now its "in" to embrace the age old stereotype of "foolish negro", which compels so many black men to become the foot-shuffling clowns of today known as "rappers". Most of the most successful black males in music today have in some way or another shamed black culture in order to attain success. This is the nature of the music biz; resentment of talent & creativity from black folk. This is why bands like Mint Condition get kicked to the curb for Nelly and crew by the media, yet white artists are encouraged to emulate black music and disect from it. Prince & WB used the black community as a jump off point and then Prince discarded what little cultural connection he had for $$$ to promote integration for the label. For WB, that simply translates to more money from different groups for the same artist. Now karma has come back. Prince knows this and his music started to reflect it a few years ago.Unfortunately for him, he is used as a shining example from the 80s of what NOT to do to become successful. The fact that he is talented as hell is of no consequence in today's society. Black folks embraced Prince from day 1 and many still do but the younger generation sees him as the exact OPPOSITE of what a black male is expected to be appearence-wise. MJ has long since lost the respect of black folks but he's on another planet anyway. Prince doesn't get the "nutty pass" like MJ does because his attempt to"cross over" seemed more deliberate. The black community's general consensus is: "You run with them white folks and try to be white, then don't come back here when they kick you to the curb." [This message was edited Sun Jun 1 13:51:10 PDT 2003 by BlaqueKnight] Wow,this is turning into an interesting discussion! You guys are all making some valid points. | |
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calldapplwondery83 said: Also if you look at his skin colour on the first two albums, you can see that his skin appears darker than it has since. Hmmm. Maybe Michael Jackson was not the only one who did some bleaching.
Well, if you look at some recent pictures, particularly any pictures of him at BBall Games, his skin looks quite dark in fact. Basing an opinion of skin tone on album covers and pictures is an iffy issue at best. No matter what skin tone you have your complexion can be made to look darker depending on the atmosphere (lighting logistics in this case) of a particular photo shoot. Hell, plenty of people, Blacks and non-Blacks alike detest even their own driver's license photo partly, I said partly, because of this fact. I've got photos of myself and friends of mine where we look three shades darker than we actually are. A picture is not always a true representation of your skin tone. £ [This message was edited Sun Jun 1 15:39:14 PDT 2003 by Supernova] This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes. | |
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Supernova said: calldapplwondery83 said: Also if you look at his skin colour on the first two albums, you can see that his skin appears darker than it has since. Hmmm. Maybe Michael Jackson was not the only one who did some bleaching.
Well, if you look at some recent pictures, particularly any pictures of him at BBall Games, his skin looks quite dark in fact. [b]Basing an opinion of skin tone on album covers and pictures is an iffy issue at best. No matter what skin tone you have your complexion can be made to look darker depending on the atmosphere (lighting logistics in this case) of a particular photo shoot. Lighting angles, florescent bulbs vs natural light, type of film used, type of printer used, type of printing method, type of paper used for printing, calibration of computer monitors the photos are viewed on, whether or not make-up is used, color of clothing worn...all these things play a HUGE part in how someone's skin tone looks in a photo...to the point that it renders chalking up someone's differening appearance in photos to "he musta bleached/darkened his skin" as nothing short of ridiculous... | |
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wellbeyond said: Supernova said: calldapplwondery83 said: Also if you look at his skin colour on the first two albums, you can see that his skin appears darker than it has since. Hmmm. Maybe Michael Jackson was not the only one who did some bleaching.
Well, if you look at some recent pictures, particularly any pictures of him at BBall Games, his skin looks quite dark in fact. [b]Basing an opinion of skin tone on album covers and pictures is an iffy issue at best. No matter what skin tone you have your complexion can be made to look darker depending on the atmosphere (lighting logistics in this case) of a particular photo shoot. Lighting angles, florescent bulbs vs natural light, type of film used, type of printer used, type of printing method, type of paper used for printing, calibration of computer monitors the photos are viewed on, whether or not make-up is used, color of clothing worn...all these things play a HUGE part in how someone's skin tone looks in a photo...to the point that it renders chalking up someone's differening appearance in photos to "he musta bleached/darkened his skin" as nothing short of ridiculous... Thankyousoverymuch! Which is why I used the word "logistics" so I wouldn't have to go into detail. 
Hey, Anji, I contributed to one of your threads. Happy?  This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes. | |
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Supernova said: Hey, Anji, I contributed to one of your threads. Happy? No, I want soul from you Babynova. You're too clinical here.
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Supernova said:[quote]calldapplwondery83 said:[quote] Also if you look at his skin colour on the first two albums, you can see that his skin appears darker than it has since. Hmmm. Maybe Michael Jackson was not the only one who did some bleaching.
 Prince is pale...a very pale brotha...he just needs a little sun...and a bowl of hot grits... June 19's Pop Culture Commentary - Beyonce'
- "Besides as much as I love her...she's still a 2 piece, biscuit, hot pepper and strawberry soda away from blowin up... So yes...she's a plain jane like the rest of us..." | |
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Anji said: Supernova said: Hey, Anji, I contributed to one of your threads. Happy? No, I want soul from you Babynova. You're too clinical here.
Lo siento, amigo. I'm saving my soul for another one of your threads. I promise. This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes. | |
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Supernova said: Thankyousoverymuch! Which is why I used the word "logistics" so I wouldn't have to go into detail.
While I knew what you meant by "logistics", I wasn't sure if everyone else did...lol | |
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Supernova said: Anji said: Supernova said: Hey, Anji, I contributed to one of your threads. Happy? No, I want soul from you Babynova. You're too clinical here.
Lo siento, amigo. I'm saving my soul for another one of your threads. I promise.  | |
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wellbeyond said: Supernova said: Thankyousoverymuch! Which is why I used the word "logistics" so I wouldn't have to go into detail.
While I knew what you meant by "logistics", I wasn't sure if everyone else did...lol  | |
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Did Prince feel ashamed of being black?
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Anji said: wellbeyond said: Supernova said: Thankyousoverymuch! Which is why I used the word "logistics" so I wouldn't have to go into detail.
While I knew what you meant by "logistics", I wasn't sure if everyone else did...lol The printing industry, computer industry, and lighting industry are all in cahoots to make the tones of Blacks' skin appear different from one photo to the next, solely to create questions and division within the Black community...!! Sorry, that's the best I can do right now...my "soul's" not in it at the moment...  | |
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wellbeyond said: Anji said: wellbeyond said: Supernova said: Thankyousoverymuch! Which is why I used the word "logistics" so I wouldn't have to go into detail.
While I knew what you meant by "logistics", I wasn't sure if everyone else did...lol The printing industry, computer industry, and lighting industry are all in cahoots to make the tones of Blacks' skin appear different from one photo to the next, solely to create questions and division within the Black community...!!  | |
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Anji said: Did Prince feel ashamed of being black?
No Anji...if anything I think he had an "issue" with his height...not being black...I do feel that for some reason he is publicly endorsing being a black male...dunno why...maybe its because he is getting older... June 19's Pop Culture Commentary - Beyonce'
- "Besides as much as I love her...she's still a 2 piece, biscuit, hot pepper and strawberry soda away from blowin up... So yes...she's a plain jane like the rest of us..." | |
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gypsyfire said:[quote]"Blacks have never turned their backs on Prince" ???
Yeah,okay,and I'm Queen Elizabeth...U NEVER hear any Prince blasting out of cars in the "hood",all I hear is freaking Nelly or Jay-Z or other nonsense,I'm sitting on a bus or train that's crowded with black people,every walkman/CD player is blasting the same old stupid shit that is usually played on black radio these days. [quote] Let me repeat, as I said in an earlier post, I don't like speaking of people in groups. This is exactly why -- the inane suggestion that "black people" are just playing Nelly or Jay-Z "or other nonsense" and "blasting the same old stupid shit that is usually played on black radio these days." Well, I'm 31. So the friends of diverse backgrounds that I hang around listen to rock, jazz, rag, classical, hip hop, blues, R&B,opera, and other genres -- that includes the "black" people. They don't allow tastes to be dictated by radio. [This message was edited Sun Jun 1 17:53:29 PDT 2003 by SynthiaRose] | |
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BlaqueKnight said: Black folks embraced Prince from day 1 and many still do but the younger generation sees him as the exact OPPOSITE of what a black male is expected to be appearence-wise. MJ has long since lost the respect of black folks but he's on another planet anyway. Prince doesn't get the "nutty pass" like MJ does because his attempt to"cross over" seemed more deliberate. The black community's general consensus is: "You run with them white folks and try to be white, then don't come back here when they kick you to the curb."
OK. Mentioning the generational divide really clarifies a lot for me. Now, I can understand more of where Gypsy was coming from. I actually didn't know the younger generation had such strong vibes against Prince because of the crossing over politics. I thought they were simply non-chalant, not socio-politically opposed. Interesting. | |
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WOW. everybody's blwoing me away with some heavy and insightful points. Ok. BLacqueknight-you really HIt me like
a drum with your points!!!1 (i'll high 5 ya man!) and s-rose (great words again) i've been into music for ages. and am probably considerably older than most people in this community and have seen and heard it all from the 50's rock & r& b stars and know its Will always be a tug of war for black performers. (this isn't a knock against white artists-i have a lot of those GUYS in my all-time fave list) this is just the way its always been. to be fair to prince ,the choice he made to "take some of the "black" out of his style wasn't much different than what sam cooke (and company) had to do to get a larger piece of the pie. its easy for us fans to say what an artists should or shouldn't do and that THEY should sTAY true to "their vision or their race"...but lets get REAL. many artists will chose going for success than being 'DOWN" with the peeps. does that make it right? probably not. but that's not the issue. sometimes an artist will stay popular with their original fandom just by doing the same thing. luther vandross is a good example of this. i dig luther but musically he's never really done anything different. he's still got the same fans (mostly black and very female!) prince wanted to be different from day one. he didn't want to be STuck in stereotypical 'black artist syndrome"-which is where the media put him in the minute they saw him. "he's a stevie wonder,smokey robinson type of black guy with a "vaguely feminine look"...lets market him as THIS!' jimi had the saem problem in the 60's. his basic guitar style was Blues. but that weird dressing of his was ROCK and he played like the white rock gods! so he was marketed as a rock artist. i knew blacks who HATED HIM. and thought he was a sell-out and at the same time he was going through pressure from blacks he knew that wanted him to COME out and BE A black man! (the funny thing was-before he went the britain to reinvent himself-he was BLACk, he played with the isley for a year or so-he's on TESTIFY circa 1964...he played all of the major black venues doin' his thang and it got him nowhere financially. basically he had to "change" to survive. but back to prince (who is a definite JIMI "child") b-knight is right about the 80's and what mj and prince did to get their FAME. i don't get on either artist too much-cuz i know a BLACK star has to make a decision-stay HERE and keep my "street credibility" or GO out THERE...and get the BIG money! if you go OUT there the rewards are WONDERFUl...but it almost always comes with a price. to go back to sam cooke (a true giant) in some circles he never got a segment of the HIS people when he went secular. b-knight is right. prince did lose many of the people that were down with him like i was from day one. is that fair? who's to say. all i saying about this is i'm a realistic music fan who goes back a long way. i tell you people it ain't easy being a black artist. especially if you wanna do something a little different. why i didn't drop prince? cuz i'm more realistic and know i can't play GOD and tell him to what he should do. as i've often said...i don't care much about prince as a person (he can be a jerk and so- and so on) but as a musician-artist...i hold the brothas (yep he's a brotha-no matter what people think) in very high esteem. on his rock n roll roots: some blacks don't know their music history well (black blues artists were THE GUITAR gods 40-50's ) and tended to look at guys like prince,lenny k as trying to be like the WHITE rock guys..well sorry but check history out-t-bone walker,bb albert king,buddy guy johnny guitar watson were KICkin' ass and doin' 'let's go crazy WAy before videos existed. what i;m saying is prince's rock period wasn't understood by a lot of blacks...but sorry y'all-he was falling in the footsteps of some HEAVY black guitar masters. granted he looked weird and sort of "gay"! but like when you listened...really listened. he was still a BLack guy. still is. and always will be. i'm not putting down my people . i'm just being real and getting off on b-knight excellent thread. mj's situation is another story for another thread... peace out y'all...youngca | |
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Deep post, man. Great points. | |
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