David Bowie or Bruce Springsteen and be an independent artist on a major label. If they can do it then surely P can.

Prince is Prince. He is doing it one way. His way I guess...

milty said:

If Bowie and Springsteen are signed to major labels,how can they possibly be considered "independent artists"?

DavidEye said:

if you look on the back of yo copy of Tunnel Of Love then you will see "the copyright in this recording is owned by...and is licensed exclusively to Sony Music".
thats how.
Springsteen has hardly released any singles or made any videos in the 90s and I bet that was his choice. He gets major label support and his freedom. come on Prince get with it!

milty said:

Actually, I like Prince just the way he is.
He doesn't have 2 be like Bruce Springsteen or Bowie.
He's more himself and he's not a follower.
Prince knows where he's going.
You've got to give Prince time.

Yeah well, the Prince way is totally whack! He is living in his own little world these days and it's kind of funny to watch it all go down. I don't begrudge the man his life because it's his to do what he likes with, but he is just getting stranger and stranger all the time. The music club is great, but if the music is not available in stores then no one other that some people on this site will know about it or buy it. That's just sad. Why can't he have the club and release it to stores?

"He (Springsteen) gets major label support and his freedom"


I still don't understand what you mean by "freedom".If Bruce is signed to a major label,then he is not "free".The record company makes alot of money off him.Yes,he gets label support but do you honestly believe the label doesn't get a huge share of the profits too?

kisscamille said:

you're so right, it's whack and it is going down: everyday, every hour and every minute. i know (lot of) people who still want the new music but they won't be joining his 'club', not in a million years... i can't blame them, duh.

But why is this still an issue? It seems that Prince can
now afford to do things his way or not at all. So that
must mean he has enough recources to do it and is pleased
by the outcome or he would not do things this way.

There must be enough npgmc members cuz I doubt the man
would release an album for a mere 5000 people.

And if he does, well more props to him it signifies that
he indeed does care more about the 'few' people that keep
faith in him and his endeavour than he cares about money.

Has anybody ever thought about the possibility that perhaps
he doesn't want to make millions of profit off each album??

He's in a position right now where he's got all the money
he'll need. In addition to that he has the means [npgmc] &
the freedom to release whatever he wants whenever he wants.

If an album like "NEWS" makes him a net profit of only say
$50.000 at the end of the day, isn't that enough when you
already got more money than you need?

I don't know, I'm no artist, but I think at the end of the
day I'd rather release my own art uncompromised and whenever
I wanted to in whatever format I'd like to and not make too
much money instead of compormising the deal and making more
money from it. Not if you already got enough $. What would
be the point?

The dude who wrote the original song from which Madonna
lifted a few bars and turned into "Ray Of Light" was in Q
magazine a few years ago. Just from royalties of that song
and the amount of times ROL was played on the radio this
dude managed to build himself a new house, a new studio and
recorded a couple of new albums which he planned to then
release independantly.

Now, if someone like him can make that much money of that
one simple song of which only a few barrs were used in some
other song, than Prince must be getting some nice checques
every year from his backcatalogue. Plus what he earns by
touring [admitting, the tickets are absurdly expensive] he
makes enough money.

I always wonder about that with actors and rockstars and
athletes. Instead of doing things they really wanna they
just sign and sign and sign deal upon deal for millions
and millions. Why would you need 15 million for a movie if
you already got 250 million in the bank??

And what could a recordcompany do? Provide him with 12 mil
like Clive did? And then what? Produce another "Rave" and
have it not do well again.

That's all too strained and desperate. It was made to look
like he recorded Rave and Clive jumped at it and released
it straight away, whilst in reality Clive listened to the
first compilation of the album and then asked Prince to
make quite a few changes. Which he did. Which turned the
album into something far more commercial than it was before.

And it turned out to be a mistake. Like the last spasm of
his midlife crisis. He probably looked at Santana and had
figured he could hit it bigtime again too. What with the
things Clive told him.

After Rave failed to do well I think he realised that he
had compromised once again and fallen flat on his face in
the process.

There's been no more shopping albums around since then has
there? I don't recall him whoring TRC around any companies.
And don't say no one would ever have released it cause some
one surely would have.

He's probably just fed up with it once and for all now and
decided to do things his own way. And I like his way a lot.

There are always many glitches and frustrations ok, but in
the end we're getting product that would've never emerged
under any form of contract.

Call that substandard material, I call it a huge addition
to his vast body of work. TRC, Ona piano, The Truth, and
Xpectation and probably NEWS are all independant releases
and all very good records.

I don't know what my point was anymore, all I'm trying to
say is that whenever there's no recordcompany involved at
all, he seems to record truly inspired music.

And when there is music recorded in "freedom" but hinted at
the market under contract "emancipation", "rave" it sounds
contrived, dull and like trying too hard.

So no more outside involvement please. Just let the man do
his own thing.

I'd rather have a whole stack of experimental jazzy albums
like these five years from now than just 2 or 3 follow ups
to Rave.

And if anything, just be glad you're not a Bryan Adams fan
cuz we woulda all bought 7 best off albums by now with only
3 new songs in the last 4 years.



I went completely mad with this post, didn't I. I'm sorry.
Well, no I'm not, it's not like anyone's gonna read it.
[This message was edited Thu May 29 7:17:38 PDT 2003 by IstenSzek]

DavidEye said:

so what, the music is promoted well and it sells big time, it reaches the real fans and new people and audiences worldwide. i'm sure Bruce prefers this professional way of working, i think he doesn't mind that the bizz is making money and giving people jobs, it works both ways you know...??!

and Bruce makes loads of money, don't ya worry about him
it's definitely better than the Prince (who?) way of promoting music...

DavidEye said:

SO. they manufacture, promote and finance the recordings. they ain't going to do it for FREE...

that's why Prince charges YOU to hear his music. all that shit about his music being free is bollocks. he's as greedy as the record companies.

Bruce aint indie coz he is with SOny.
end of story.

& he has made videos (see Video Anthology 2dvd set)
just u dont c him on mtv,u c nelly & avril.

aslong as P dont charge fans an arm & a leg & the music is still comin,i dont care.

IstenSzek said:

Not exactly... like you say yourself: "Now, if someone like him can make that much money of that
one simple song of which only a few barrs were used in some
other song, than Prince must be getting some nice checques
every year from his backcatalogue. Plus what he earns by
touring [admitting, the tickets are absurdly expensive] he
makes enough money."

Note especially the royalties of his back catalogue, the income of the club and most of all the absurdly expensive tickets.


Perhabs he still would like to, but since he doesn't really need to (like you say yourself) it is not a top priority anymore. However, like you say yourself:
"Why would you need 15 million for a movie if
you already got 250 million in the bank??"

well... to have even more? What about those absurd ticketprices all year long? besides that, to have fame?

"And what could a recordcompany do? Provide him with 12 mil
like Clive did? And then what? Produce another "Rave" and
have it not do well again. "

Like he did with 3 albums Emacipation, NPS and rave. All were supposedly "free"... but quality? nahhh... commericalised? yes, very much so... but did it sell? nahhh, because it didn't have the true feeling, nor the quality that prince's real classic albums have.


"all" that he needs? You might want to reconsider that... How much money do you think he will charge for "news"? How much did he give last year for 100$? And that "freedom"to release all that he wants that isn't all that much, is it? Especially considering he has bragged for years about having a vault from which eh could release 3 albums a year...


Maybe they really just want to be stinking rich?



well, he defintly shopped "high"around, but apparantly all the majors were through with him. Not surprisingly after the rave fiasco.



once you sign upto the club, you contract.



I know that in my opinion his 80's work still sounds more inspired. Not that his current work, doesn't, but his 80's work more...



I agree with that. But how come? Because he was selling out again, like he did just about the entire 90's decade...



he could use somebody creative to edit his needless adittions and offensive lyrics and provide him with new ideas... Rick Rubin perhabs?

me too, but I rather have him make it avalaible for download or cd, outside the club as well. Why does he make it necessary to join that club? why not release it on the site for anybody?

NME said:

i can c where ur coming from...
but i'd rather the ARTIST getting the $$$ instead of some suit behind a desk. (or in P's case nowadays... a suit behind a mic-stand)

Any question starting off with "Why cant Prince be like..." is wrong right off teh bat. Prince has always been an original and a maverick. That is what makes him Prince. Good, bad, indifferent...its Prince and that is all there is to it. One of the major reasons that I have been a fan from the very beginning.

weren't EMI & Arista just distributing like Redline did with TRC & ONALive! ?

Abrazo said:

:O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O


You actually read that rant of mine? Rrrrespect heheh.

Most of what you say is very true. I went a little bit
overboard on my pro-prince attitude this afternoon.

It was the music again, as always. Listening to his best
songs always makes me wanna see things better than they
really are.

DavidEye said:

sure the label makes money. you bet. like i said, Bruce and David are signed up to licensing agreements. I don't know the exact details obviously but the way a license agreement usually works is: the artist covers the costs of recording, etc and the company markets the record when it is delivered. however the money is split is always negotiable. Bowie and Springsteen are free (or freer) that way. they get artistic control as well i bet. they also get their names out there and don't end of making crap business decisions think they know it all. can you really see an exec from Sony saying to Bruce," Ah, Bruce, we don't hear a single on this. can you go back to the studio and write us a hit?" i really don't think so. Springsteen hasn't released as much material as Prince so do you honestly believe a record label is gonna deny Prince what he wants? unfortunately Prince's ego and flakiness will always get the better of him. why can't he be the boss (i don't mean boss as in "The Boss") and just be cool about it?

milty said:

amen!

LaMont said:

you are so right that he is an original and a maverick but plz? the man needs to chill and be inclusive instead thinking he is the smartest damn fool in the world and get down off the high pedestal he be puttin' himself on.

familygroove said:

Yeah that's cool Springsteen releases a new CD ecery 5 years...oops soory 7 years between the ghost of tom joad and the rising. really cool. And don't count all the f'inck live stuff he has released in between where there was absolutely nothing new.

That must be sooo cool for an artist to wait that much time to share new songs with your audience.

milty said:

why do you give a damn to have Prince in the charts or the support of a MAJOR label. I don't give a flying fuck. he came to europe with an amazing tour a few months ago. After the Patris concert it was pure hysteria to get in the bataclan. There were hundreds of people without a ticket getting mad there trying desperetly to get inside the venue.

He has released TRC, his live box set, expectation, ona + now he wants to release a DVD and news. I prefer a million times downloading his stuff or getting cds via his website rather than waiting 3 years to get a new release.

I don't need Prince to be admired by other people to enjoy his music. Again who gives a flying fuck. And please don't go "he is bankrupt"...I have heard that since the Lovesexy tour in 1988. And yes his music is better now than it was with shitty albums like D&P or Batman. I was damn embarassed to hear this commercial shit (like Cream) on the radio at the time and to see these new faces who put Prince and Depeche Mode in the same basket at the D&P tour.

VINCENT said:

yeah i hear you. bruce waits far too long but don't you see in prince's position he could be the king of the heap. he may not have a top 10 album or single anymore but it would be great to have him back in the public eye as well and not be classified as some recluse freak boy.

VINCENT said:

to hell with the charts. i'm just talking about inclusion. it might make everybody feel better. i bet Prince fans would be walking around proud papas if Prince had a major resurgence in popularity like Santana did. albeit, a creative one as well, unlike Santana. i know it! we'd all be like," see?, the man never went nowhere. while y'all be into Linkin Park and shit, he was writing damn good shit and putting it out on his website. but you can't borrow my copy of NPS. you gotta go buy it".

you are right tho, Vincent. we have been very lucky to receive a lot of new Prince material in the past few years. too bad, it soo damn expensive all the time. i bet his music wouldn't be so darn expensive if he had people behind him who know what the hell they be doing.

KeithyT said:

milty said:

Oh,I see where you're coming from.I agree with you for the most part.It would be cool if Prince could work out some kind of deal like Springsteen.