sag10 said:

You obviously weren't paying attention... 8)

(And apparently, neither was I... :O )

wellbeyond said:

Sure glad I was gone...

So um what about that signature?

sag10 said:

I guessed right on a question about 1984...Pay attention, woman!!!...

wellbeyond said:

I was gone!

sag10 said:

Nah, I meant up on this here thread...

"I was deemed your "cronie", yer "lap dog", yer "pet", and Robbin Quivers to your Howard Stern...all apparently (from what I can tell) because I answered a question about 1984 correctly..."

:O

wellbeyond said:

well fuck em all! I wouldn't expect any less from you.

Yanno, I just realized the guy being shpanked is smiling... :O

wellbeyond said:

Nevermind!
[This message was edited Wed May 28 14:13:22 PDT 2003 by sag10]

IceNine said:

guess there's no need if somebody else pays for your club membership anyway..

I'd rather not tell any of you the details. Keep the No need for egos to fly. No need to insult anybody even if you have been insulted. I am probably newer than most of you in here but I get along with you all. I hear a lot of opinions in here all the time and don't agree with them all. But everyone will have an opinion like it or not. Remember we are all humans.

weren't a bunch of threads on this topic deleted or locked because it had been discussed enough?

rio said:

Hi Rio, my sweet.

grandebelle said:

I wasn't actually asking about the lyrics at all... I didn't even know that this "Moors in Spain" stuff was a song at all...

rio said:

I don't have a membership.

IceNine said:

interesting...you said before that muse signed you up...
did you cancel it?

MrBliss said:

Actually no... as per http://www.prince.org/msg...&tid=49738 it is fine to discuss the lyrics of course (this is a Prince site, so discussing Prince lyrics seems acceptable to me!) as long as it is done with civility and respect... and in accordance with the Prince.org site rules.

The old threads got locked because they were full of crazy racist arguments on both sides of the fence and it was getting a bit mad.

IceNine said:

The reading on the Club site said "A POEM"
not "THE LYRICS TO A SONG"

It actually said..."A POEM"

ian said:

In what way do you think the lyrics presented a somewhat blinkered view of history? I will refrain from commenting further until I see your response as I may have read you wrong and want to keep this conversation civilised, in accordance with the rules.

1800NewHunk said:

Well some might say that the poem was "somewhat blinkered" in the sense that it misrepresents non-"Moorish" culture and civilisation (e.g. the "long haired barbarians" comment) and it embellishes history in favour of the Moors, making them out to be some kind of utopian, perfect child-like race that was corrupted by the evils of others... e.g. "came 2 blossom in Spain". Er, not quite how I'd describe an invasion but hey! Poetic license I guess.

Of course, as has been discussed, his description of those Islamic groups as "Moors" isn't really appropriate either, given that the term was a blanket-term that referred to people with darkish skin from North Africa.

Personally I'm not bothered by Prince's take on things, but they are hardly a "balanced and accurate historical account". That much at least, I think we can all agree on!
Whatever history books Prince has been reading, I get the impression that he only reads the paragraphs he likes and skips the bits he doesn't like.

Some might say that his understanding of history is simplistic at best, and plain wrong at worst. It is true that he uses innocent, sweet, garden-of-Eden style imagery in describing the Muslims, whilst at the same time being utterly contemptuous of European culture. Which I presume is another thing that made so many people annoyed. And reasonably so... I'm sure my ancestors did more than "wallow in bigotry"

Regardless of my own opinions though, the lyrics are "blinkered" in the sense that they are written in an "editorial" style very much with one specific agenda and side of the story to tell. Which is perfectly fine, but let's not go taking it too seriously!

THIS IS ALL JUST MY OPINION AND DOESN'T REPRESENT AN OFFICIAL PRINCE.ORG STATEMENT ON THE MATTER NOR SHOULD IT BE USED IN A COURT OF LAW NOR SHOULD YOU BASE YOUR LIFE AROUND THE ACCURACY OF MY WORDS, BECAUSE I MAY HAVE GOT SHIT WRONG THANK YOU.

This is the first time that I come across this topic, and I'm bewildered by the negative response to this poem.

They're words, almost in rhyme, talking about a piece of history that you never read about in History-101.

What's so threatening about Prince posting this in his website?

PurpleJedi said:

Absolutely nothing, that I can see. Prince's music, Prince's art, Prince's opinions, Prince's lyrics. Fine with me.

SensualMelody said:

Thanx Sensualmelody. It seems to have confused alot of us intellects. I had NO idea when someone posted the lyrics here on the org, if it were a song OR poem. I havent yet navigated the site, as I dont have compatible equipment yet. ( webtv, u know ) I still dont understand the lyrics either, OR what statement prince was trying 2 convey, or how it affects him as an issue. I hear it was a shakespearean play? If so, I am NOT very versed in this arena. ( Shakespeare ) If anyone wants 2 dissect it 4 me & others still in the dark with IT, it would b greatly appreciated, unless the moderators feel otherwise. Promise NOT 2 argue or any other such negtivity.

Re: Shakespeare... I assume you are referring to the famous "Moor" - that is, THE Moor, Othello.

silly me..i must have missed the lyrics that said 'what happened in relation to it and the org?'

seems to me this thread isn't entirely about lyrics..but it became another opportunity for one side of a story to be told...again..ah well...



(edited)
[This message was edited Wed May 28 20:52:07 PDT 2003 by rio]

rio said:

There isn't a thread in the entire existence of this site which is about only "one thing"...every thread branches off into whatever gets brought up...considering the title of the thread AND the person who started it, are you THAT surprised that the topic of what happened got touched on yet again??...

wellbeyond said:

not at all..but my point was only that this thread was allowed to remain because it was allegedly about song lyrics...

almost all of the other threads regarding this were deleted...and certainly any showing an opposing account of what happened..

see mr.bliss' question...that's what my comment was in relation to...

aaah...the Spanish connection

rio said:

?

Well feel free to tell the other side, if you know something we don't. IceNine asked what all the fuss was about, and I explained that some people took offense to the lyrics and it created a pretty heated argument in the forums. Did I miss anyhing?

rio said:

Utterly, utterly untrue. Check your facts mate.

The offending threads (which had some very long, tedious racist arguments in them that were getting out of control) were LOCKED - they are still visible on the site, so feel free to go back and have a read. A lot of people thanked me when I locked those threads, because they badly need to be locked.

NO ONE is banned from discussing the issue on this site, as long as it is kept civil and respectful and following the site rules. Any other questions, let me know.

To address Rio's claim, here is the evidence:

All of the threads concerning this debate are still visible and perfectly readable. Some are locked because the arguments were getting crazy, but I left it all there for you all to read at your leisure.

The only threads that were removed during that sorry debacle were a number of threads created by rdhull, called stuff like "you are such a dumb motherfucker". These threads were just flames, had no other replies, and were removed quickly.

http://www.prince.org/msg...&tid=49738
http://www.prince.org/msg...&tid=49679
http://www.prince.org/msg...&tid=49495
http://www.prince.org/msg...&tid=49815
http://www.prince.org/msg...&tid=49465
http://www.prince.org/msg...&tid=49517
http://www.prince.org/msg...&tid=49675
http://www.prince.org/msg...&tid=49603
http://www.prince.org/msg...&tid=49471
http://www.prince.org/msg...&tid=49519
http://www.prince.org/msg...&tid=49375
http://www.prince.org/msg...&tid=49256
http://www.prince.org/msg...&tid=49435


There's probably more, but I got bored searching.