Many of Prince's pre-JW/pre-Larry (what's the difference?) records have lyrics with a healthy and positive outlook towards racial integration. "White, black, puerto-rican..." ...and countless others, we know them all. And, cool, yeah?

Hmmm. In the 90s, we know, Prince was accused by many of selling out, of not being "black enough". He certainly felt this; you can tell by the language of his records, not to mention the introduction of rap (which he'd previously slated), that he really felt the need to prove himself to his black audience, to remain hip. From the "normal" language of the 80s albums, we suddenly get tracks full of "nigga" and "check 1,2", "brothas"...I don't recall a "hood" anywhere, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

And the song, "Dinner With Delores". I was shocked when I heard the line about her "dancing like a white girl". Excuse me?! Stop swearing if you don't like it, Prince, whatever, but you need to learn that offensiveness is in ideas, not in words.

And now we're getting songs about blackness all the time, about afrocentrism, the importance of roots, of history. Songs about the injustice that has been done to Prince, to the black people. Well, hmm, Prince, you haven't technically picked cotton in anyone's fields yourself, have you? In fact, you have quite a luxurious life in America, don't you? Better than the vast majority of America's white citizens. Fair enough if you want to write songs about injustice, but these songs overstep the mark, valuing words over ideas and valuing the past over the present.

Prince. Where people come from, doesn't matter. Where words come from, doesn't matter, either; it's what we mean by them that counts. Stop dredging up ancient history and preaching about which race is more righteous than the next, because, frankly, it's disturbing.

And it wasn't even so long ago you wrote:

"If the air is a little thick in this room 2nite
I reckon it's the result of an onslaught of separatist rookies
Overcome by this colorful sight

Talkin' so fast that even they
Talkin' so fast that even they
Don't know what they mean

Of all the things that base a rhyme
How is it that U everytime
Regurgitate the racist lines that keep us apart?"

I think you are wrong about Dinner with delores...
I hear:" dancing like a WILD girl..."
Wich sounds more logical to me.

Yeah and last december is about jews !

I take it you're trying to make a point that I am reading into things. Well, call me a loon, but I did think the line about white girls referred to white girls. I suggest you try and make your point more explicitly, since your attempted use of irony is so malformed as to be incomprehensible.

spx said:

Nope,he is saying "dancing like a WHITE girl".Btw,I don't think that line is offensive at all.It's meant as a joke.

DavidEye said:

yeah right, until I make jokes about black people...

So what if he sings "dances like a white girl".. He is joking (I am a white girl and I am not offended)... I guess "unremarkable" did not attend the Diamonds & Pearls tour where he be4 he started Live 4 Love made a very clear statement in the Netherlands about racism. Let's c if I have the time this evening to listen to the cd of this concert so I can quote what he said then...

...
[This message was edited Thu May 22 4:21:10 PDT 2003 by DavidEye]

The implication is that white girls can't dance, and that's offensive.

How would it be received if I said someone did something like a black guy, meaning they did it badly?

Oh come on! So,because of that line in "Dinner With Delores",you think Prince is a racist?? Excuse me,but hasn't he dated White women in the past?

I am a white girl and I can dance, IF he thinks white girls can't dance, that's his opinion.. I must say that in my opinion "black" guys can dance much better than "white" gusy.

I totally agree David.. Just because of one line in one sing all this fuss...

Well, Carmen Electra is white and he didn't seem to think her dancing was bad at all.

Maybe it just implies that white girls dance differently from other girls, which is neither good or bad. It's kind of like saying dancing like someone from Essex or something-you know just about the style of dance in question?

He also says 'watching dirty movies like some kind of whore' I find that a bit more offensive to people that watch these movies-they are not nessasarily all whore's are they? just a bit kinky that's all...
[This message was edited Thu May 22 4:29:53 PDT 2003 by ladymisskat]

So if I say someone has a nose like a jew...as a "joke"...funny or not?

ladymisskat said:

Correct.And let's not forget Diamond and Pearl,the two White dancers he took on tour with him in 1992.

DavidEye said:

Yep! (Gett off video clip/Cream video clip etc. etc. etc.)

And if I said that in my opinion white guys are more intelligent than black guys?

I can't believe this!

unremarkable said:

You think what you think... But I am not gonna discuss anymore.. just all this crap about one line in one song...

You guys,calm down!! Sheeshh!!

abierman said:

It is just a joke, but I agree if a white artist made a similar light-hearted stereotype joke, it would be pounced on.

I think it's perceived as OK for black people to joke about white people in the media because no-ones wants to cause a fuss, and stir up a hornets nest.

VelvetSplash said:

Actually,White artists HAVE made such comments in their songs too.Have you ever heard "Some Girls" by the Rolling Stones?

unremarkable said:

let me be more explicit - you're a whinging fool who doesn't know anything about Prince lyrics or what makes an attitude racist.

the line in Dinner with Delores is having a joke with the stereotype of white people having no rhythm - for something similar (and a long time before his supposed 'conversion' to 'racism') try DMSR where he says "All the white people clap your hands on the four now" and then proceeds to count out the beats to keep them in time! As a white person (who coincidentally has no rhythm whatsoever) I find this funny.

as far as prince now being racist, I really don't see that (he does seem to be homophobic, but that doesn't seem to bother too many fans-wonder why???). He is obviously interested in his heritage and seems angry about what has happened (and is still happening to some extent) to black people in the past.

I don't agree that people should still be angry about past evils (although they should certainly still be aware or them, and songs like Avalanche are really just about making people aware of the facts), nor that changing the words we use to describe people will get rid of stereotypes or racism. But the fact that Prince does, doesn't make him a racist - at the very least, shouldn't you be happy (as an adoring fan and a lover of good music) that he has at least found a subject for his music that he really cares about - that "move ur ass this way..." schtick was gettiong tired.

unremarkable said:

Yeah and do u also recall the line:

"I don't wanna know, why those before us hated each other.
I'd rather believe they never did!"

Hmmm...

I agree with unremarkable.

There was a time when he didn't feel the need to justify his race...anyone recall 'Controversy'?

Since the 90's he has, at times, tried to act like a *'Nigga'- microphone gun/ back up rappers/immature lyrics(*please do not take offense to this word - it's meant to reflect someone trying to be bad/cool/gangsta whatever)

I think he's running out of things to say, which is why he's found his 'colour' and now found 'religion'.


he's crap - let's move on!

unremarkable said:

You wrote that with a straight face, didn't you?

lawd, lawd, lawd...are ya'll really serious?


No matter what, Prince is still a black man. Maybe there are things that he needs to get off his chest or something. Who knows It's about expression. I'm glad DavidEye mentioned the Rolling Stones.

Also, you guys act like the man didn't have black fans before the 90's...until he started in with all the horrible rapping.

I'm still amazed at how "diverse" Prince fans are. Lawd...

and coming up next thread, the meatloaf...

TRC is his most interesting record in years.

He might have explained his point very poorly in the songs on the album, but at least we're discussing the topics raised.

No one was gonna discuss "Hot Wit' U" to this extent.