toejam said:

I never liked that line myself. It's never good to fool yourself, and those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Or something like that.

I am interested in what offended you, though. I'm Native American and white, and I couldn't find anything in it that offended me. Some of the lyrics are simplistic and revisionist, but we all know he's no history professor. He definitely doesn't help his case any with the way he phrases things at times.

But NuPwrSoul is correct that Prince did speak the truth, and some are uncomfortable with that particular brand of truth. I mean, white folk beware of what? It's still a fact that the vast contributions to civilization made by African cultures are largely ignored.

Jagjams said:

...kinda like still pointing the finger at German kids 2day who werent even a flicker in their GRANDPARENTS eyes, (let alone their own parents), and holding them 2 account/blame 4 what happened in the Shoah.

It's one thing 2 not 4get, it's another 2 point a finger and be self-rightous

intha916 said:

yes they'd much rather him sing nigger sing, dance nigger dance...

NuPwrSoul said:

That's an inaccurate over-simplification of what I said. What I meant was, Prince is trying to go a little too deep and getting caught up with jamming as many "facts" as he can into a song. That just doesn't make for good song-writing. Marvin Gaye wasn't just a "singing nigga" when he did What's Going On but he fit his message into well-crafted songs. Prince is just becoming too wordy and preachy with stuff like this.

intha916 said:

I agree with you. Look at musical political figures like Stevie Wonder, Curtis Mayfield and JB. When they incorporated their beliefs into their music it was effortless and easier to digest mainly because they were down for empowerment throughout their creative years which happened to coincide with the Civil Rights Era.

chickengrease said:

You said it better than I did. Thanks

Old history folks. Better that we make the future more fair for everyone--white and black. Hold hands and sing Kum Bai Ya folks.

bananacologne said:

No, actually I was quoting someone else.

Phil said:[quote]don't really see this as offensive to white people.

maybe old western white man culture. but not these days.[/quote


I agree..its not. In fact, much of it is documented in that part of world history that gets edited out with the euro centric interpretation. Fact of the matter is that most people get their feather ruffled when the ugly truth of race in history is brought to light. What is refreshing about Prince now is that in his older enlightened stage, he is obviously studying and becoming versed on more than just D.M.S.R.

The dilemna comes when ignorant fans only want low brow material from a legednary musical genius who has transcended popular music for over 20 years.

Princes history seems to be right. Check it out:

http://www.xmission.com:8.../moors.htm

LaMont said:[quote]

Phil said:

I for one don't want "low brow" material from Prince but I also don't want lyrics that resemble an essay more than an actual song. Plus I never felt Prince wrote "low brow" stuff in the first place. Just because something might be important from a historical stand point doesn't mean it makes for good subject matter when writing a song. And if you are going to use subject matter such as this in a song, you damn sure better be creative in doing so. This sounds more like a class term paper read outload. P can do better than this.

Well, one reason Europe once lagged behind other cultures was obscurantism, which is basically a desire to hide knowledge in favor of one source. In this case, it was the Bible, which was presented as the primary source of knowledge, while science was viewed suspiciously.

Since the Knowledge room of NPGMC is comprised solely of bible quotes, I doubt Prince has made the necessary parallels.

2freaky4church1 said:

sure, but facts are only as good as context, and he left a LOT of that out.

the moors invaded spain. they STARTED the shit (if it makes any sense to point fingers, let's point them where they belong). so, when prince's new song complains about how the moors' sword would have been unsheathed . . .it's actually kinda funny . .

XxAxX said:

Why is it funny? He wasn't delivering a speech on absolute world history from the big bang til 2003, just an area of Moorish culture that he felt was under-appreciated in text books.

you're right it's more ironic than funny, isn't it

oooh, i am white, and i am scared. Prince rules all. We all must obey him

um, HELLO???

isn;t it blindingly obvious what this song is about?

It seems to me there are 2 key points:

1) That Islam is not a barbaric or uncivilised religion - there have been times in our past when Islam was more tolerant and more civilised than christianity.

2) That attacking muslims only brings about a temporary peace -

"2 win a war against the so-called “black infidels”
Brings about a peace that cannot last" -

just look at what's happened since 9/11 - Attacking Afghanistan & Iraq was supposed to make the world a safer place, and yet we've had more suicide bombs and violence than ever.

Anyone who reads these lyrics as racist has a severe chip on their shoulder.

1800NewHunk said:

Ahh, if only all orgers/members of western society could sit back and calmly reflect on the matters in hand like you newhunk.

I didn't know ANYthing about the Moors until I read this. And, having half a brain, I know not to just swallow whatever P shoots at me. So overall, I'm happy when he posts this sort of thing. It opens a door for me to learn something.

As far as the racism, I just don't see it. . .?

Cool to disuss it. . .I don't know that much about the history of that time, so if those of you who do want to (continue to) say more, I'm interested.

Essence said:

This isn't a comfortable debate in what is normally a relaxed and enlightening forum. But I believe that it is important to calm the flames of any debate that threatens to get out of hand.

Tolerance and understanding is the lifeblood of society, and Prince's message in his current lyrics is a welcome, if misunderstood, contribution to the debate.

I actually respect him more than I have for ages after reading this.

1800NewHunk said:

AMEN

1) That Islam is not a barbaric or uncivilised religion - there have been times in our past when Islam was more tolerant and more civilised than christianity.


i agree
but don't forget something now
would u like to live under the Chariah law ??

Albator said:

Apologies.

But it did need discussion, I believe a lot of people have misundertsood prince's intentions.

1800NewHunk said:

possible
but maybe that's what Prince want, in fact

he could tell things clearer no ??

Albator said:

possible
but maybe that's what Prince want, in fact

he could tell things clearer no ??[/quote]

It seems quite clear to me. As an artist, Prince is entitled to write in metaphor. But is hardly seems a complex metaphor.

I don't find this offensive at all.

Obviously some of you have never heard of Anal Cunt.

VelvetSplash said:

I have - they were really bloody good 2!

That's unbelievably, staggeringly bad songwriting. What the fuck is that supposed to be? Art? Information? Edu-tainment? Christ, when will these pop stars realize their function has nothing to do with TEACHING (if, in fact, that's what you can call that)?

This "I got religion, I got to spread the word" attitude is ruinous, man. Prince, as a pop culture figure, was only interesting as long as there was a tension between his religious beliefs and his performance behavior (both on wax and on stage). The tension is what made him interesting -- as it always does. Now that he has embraced religion completely, he is not interesting at all. He's just another idealogue.

I don't begrudge his personal evolution -- such things are inevitable. But if it leads him to write songs like the one above...
[This message was edited Wed May 21 16:49:19 PDT 2003 by TedW]

TedW said:

Agreed 100%.