swdee said:

Do you have any boots? If so...Shut up with your respect shit.

rdhull said:

as 4 my whole outlook of this: bannin a book ain't gonna do anything, 'cept make folks feen 4 the book even mo'. i've read the book sittin in borders bookstore and it don't do nuffin 4 me. so, what have i done?

easy: did my wallet a favor and passed on the book. plain n'simple. 2 each their own.


mine!!!

lovemachine said:

hey be nice!

Anxiety said:

rdhull said:

Okay...Do you have any boots? If so maybe you should rethink your position on the respect of Prince issue raised by buying the book

lovemachine said:

Whoaaa..I never said anything about "respecting" Prince lol. I said be objective. PEOPLE PEOPLE PAY ATTENTION..THINK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX-STOP TAKING OR THINKING OF WHAT I "SUPPOSEDLY" SAID AT FACE VALUE lol..yall are a trip

read what u want (make some fool who wrote crap some money--thats on yall) but be objective about things


kingdom hull kingdom hull kingdom ...

cborgman said:

That's exactly what I said, and I got blasted for it.

Some folks here are on the wrong forum - the Michael Jackson forum is for arse-lickers who think their favourite popstar is the second coming.

It's a bulshit book.

that's my opinion, I'm not gonna 'flame' anyone who says different.


Anyone who hasn't bought this book, I'd advise you to get it and judge for yourself.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

No wonder they got them comfortable chairs at Borders. Now if they had the Book there...

Damn, so maybe I should just go 2 the library and check it out......sounds like a plan!
[This message was edited Thu May 15 19:34:57 PDT 2003 by CherrieMoonKisses]

I'm not reading this bullshit, was never planning on in...

SPURS bitches!!

CalhounSq said:

LOL, you guys crack me up totally!

Its a good read. I don't suggest it for anyone who has his or her head up their ass, but if you want to know more about what makes Prince tick, it's worth your time.

There are many books and movies that I don't suggest certain people read or see. If one can't understand what they are absorbing, then I agree with some of the other people (swdee and rdhull specifically) that reading it could be damaging to you. If on the other hand you have a mind of your own, and want to be entertained, and are not afraid of a view counter to your own, then pick it up at the library.

I commend anyone who takes the financial risk to write a book about a man who doesn't sell many albums and is considered to be a has-been by much of the listening public. The fact that he can make some people sit up and notice and even get angry with this book, just by the title, shows that he has done something right.

swdee said:

I BUY WHATEVER I WANT

swdee said:

I didn't think of buying it, but...

Now I KNOW I have to buy this book!

I don't think you have the right to tell anyone what to buy or don't buy.

Personally, I sat down in my bookstore and read "Possessed" from the "Parade" era to the end.

How depressing! What an ugly story!


At first, I put down the book and said,"Prince is an awful person! What an ugly individual! Prince HAS fallen and it's all his fault." I questioned why I would devote so much listening time to such a cretin! After all, the only reason I still listen to Prince is hoping that he can give a thrill like "Parade" and "Sign" again.


But once you sit on the memories of "Possessed" for 2-3 days, it becomes apparent: WHO CARES about Prince's supposed private noodlings? AND as far as his way of treating people in his life--it's all karma, and it's come back to bite him on the ass--- former bandmates think he's nuts and have disassociated from him;he seems to have few, if any, friends; he cannot get a record label to take a chance on him or promote him-so he is the archetect of his own financial woes and visability. HE is the one who decided to make his contractual obligation CD's skimpy and with cheap packaging. The result was not only giving the finger to the label, but record buyers as well.Biggest mistake of his career!Those are HIS problems,not mine!

I just read Tony Bennett's autobiography- and when he had problems with Columbia, he said he still made the best "Contractual Obligation" albums he could because he owed it to his fans, and owed it to the legacy of his catalog! Oh, only if Prince had the same attitude!Imagine if he stuffed those "contractual cd's" to the limit, with the best he had to offer! Instead, he gave critics ammo to turn on him, and buyers to be suspicious of his work, and adopt the fallacy that he had "fallen".He has never recovered, forget the name-change or disbanding the Revolution. Skimpy non-effort cd's at the end of Warner was his fatal mistake.

$*$*$*$

I think Prince has paid for his misteps dearly. He will never recover. However, HOW can one say Prince took a "fall" when you consider he intentionally put out lesser product in the 90's? And how do you expect any man to go through a failed marriage,and pulling the plug on the life of his deformed baby, and deliver another "Parade", or "Sign"? The fact he bothered at all to make music, is noteworthy,good or bad.If my hot wife left me, and I had the memory of my dead child's enlarged skull in my memory, making a cd would be the last thing on my mind.

Finally, there is the "consumer culture" mentality that one is only successful if you're part of America's staged spectacle of the cult of celeberity. If you're not part of the game, you're washed up, or taken a "fall". Do we really need corporations to tell us what is "in", what is "cool", what is "Popular", what is good music or bad? Do I need Pepsi to tell me Britney Spears is "it"? Do I need music label promotion $$$ backing an artist to validate my choices?

I think most Prince fans know better. We don't need journalists or hack writers, or America's consumer culture constructions to tell us what to think about Prince. Personally, I think "One Nite Alone Live" is his best release ever. I think "Rainbow Children",and "Emancipation" are amoung his best stuff. Corporate consumer culture America would have you believe he has done nothing since "Diamonds and Pearls".

I rarely visit this site anymore. I don't get involved with bad businesses like NPGMC. I just buy the music when it appears on the shelves of record stores. Like the old days. And I don't buy books like "Possessed", and I am happier for it.

It's about the music.

warning2all said:

I agree that it was a mistake. and if it was fatal, it surely equals a fall.


remember:

"It ain't about the money, we just wanna play"

well for a short while maybe...


How can one say he will NEVER recover. You can't say that.

Isn't that typical of a fall? Intentionally fucking things up says very little good about a person, and indicates strongly that this person is aflling or has fallen.

Because he didn't have the gracious attitude to deliver quality in return of all the millions he got and all the support his fans gave him.

[
shouldn't fans first let those private matters stay that way and second stop expecting another sign?

Prince makes music all the time, he can't help it, it's like a curse.
And no to your question, because he didn't put his heart into it. Any music without soul is worthless. he did that out of bitterness and didn't care about the possible negative consequences, nor about fans who were helplessly seeing him fall deeper and deeper... untill he started to sue fan websites and couldn't fall any deeper.


lots of people run into what they are sued to do, in the case of prince: music.


No, you don't need that to know what is cool, but neither do you need it to see that prince in fact did fall.


Right, like another Parade.


if you are ignortant and can't think for yourself you would believe that Diamonds and pearls is one of his best albums. But in fact it was part of his fall... the fall to commercialised music, hiphop in that instance, when prince was never hiphop. He was not true to himself. he fell. Later he got into modern R&b and copied the sound of the day and again was not himself... and then he fell further.




so what about the "music" club, in which he is supposedly "free".. Does it offer any at all?

swdee said:

2 Late my Wife already bought it & i'm up 2 page 8. i started readin' it in the "bathroom" this mornin' when i woke up

i'll let u all know after i read it if we can use it as "toilet paper" or if it can b added 2 the "Library Of Prince, The Genius"...


i'm STILL skeptical of this becuz of "The Title & RUMORz" surrounding it...

Abrazo:

I enjoyed your comments!


You can say Prince has taken a fall in record sales, media attention,and the American constructions of "cool", but I think the only measure of success that counts is creativity and exhibition of skills. "TRC", "Emancipation", and "Truth"-records of the past 5 years show he's "still got it" when he puts his mind to it.

I think "ONAL" is his best album based on pure musicianship-it all depends what you look for in music, I suppose.The hard hitting hype-songs like "My Name is Prince" is laid waste to me by exhibitions like the live "Nothing Compares 2 U" or "HCYDCMA". I'll take the scorching guitar of "Joy in Repetition" over the multi-tracked vocals of TGRES anyday. For me, as a musician and someone who studies music-ONAL is a total clinic on live playing.

You mention PARADE- that is without a doubt to me his greatest studio album to my ears, and will always be my sentimental favorite. It saddens me that Prince tends to dismiss it. I've listened to that album more than any other album on earth in the last 17 years. Screw "Sign",PARADE is IT to me! So I agree with you there!

I would surmise that the biggest bashers of ONAL are also bootleg owners of that tour--while I understand the craving for more Prince music, bootleggers deny themselves the simple pleasure of a live Prince box set by having all those boots "this show was better, that performance was better" frustration-they set themselves up for disappointment.ONAL is spectacular.

I do not think Prince "took a fall" so to speak, because everything was by his choice- and he'll feel the reprocussions of that forever. It's karma in the way he treated people, bandmates to fans to label execs. But those were his choices, while he kept all the cool vault material locked up. He chose to shoot himself in the foot over and over and over.

If "Chaos and Disorder" was the BEST he was able to do, the best album with the best songs he could put together, then YES I would say he had fallen. But it wasn't. C&D was a non-effort, no matter if certain fans want to view it as a legit work.Can you believe the same man on stage during the ONA tour is the same guy who put out "Newpower Soul"?

Prince has NOT taken a fall in the only way that matters: HIS ABILITIES. From now on, I don't think he can afford any more half-assed releases, no more half-assed side Projects like NPS. Every new release HAS to count. He has to give people full return for their $$$. He is capable: TRC and ONAL prove it. As long as he can turn out interesting work like that-how can you say he has taken a fall?

VelvetSplash said:

WRONG.You had debate because it was a biased yellow journalism thing you were equating to being a decent account etc. Dont get it twisted.

rdhull said:

You're the one who got my point twisted.

VelvetSplash said:

Getting points twisted is not part of my programming..please access another experience.

rdhull said:

xenophobia2002 said:

I know because I bought that book for you.

You must not be a good Fam.
[This message was edited Sun May 18 12:57:10 PDT 2003 by minneapolisgenius]

warning2all said:

That's right: "when he puts his mind to it"... which is not what he did with Emancipation, C&D, The Vault, NPS or the Crystall ball fiasco . All that had everything to do with his contractual obligations and his disrespect for giving fans worth their money.


I hear too many overdubs on ONA Live, especially with his voice; that sounds wack. I don't like ONA Live, not even the aftershow disc... it misses feeling, with a few exceptions.



For me.. Lovesexy is the one, untill my day is done.


Sorry, gotta disagree with you there. I am not a "bootlegger"; I have some, but not many and not from ONA (except Chicago), and I think that most of those kick ONA Live's ass. I think that basically ONA dissapoints me... He could do much better...


That, and more, equals a fall to me.


It was perhabs not his best he could do at the time, but it was the best he was willing to give to WB, and have his fans pay their cash for, while he ran with his contracual millions.


Yes, as a matter of fact I can, which is why I am not too fond of ONA Live either. The soul is missing, especially due to overdubs. Don't get me worng, he has got a great band... it is just that Prince himself doesn't come across as convincing.


He hasn't shown the ability to keep his promises, which he could before, but not anymore... due to... ah well.. let's not get too personal...


ONA Live does not give me my money worth, because he promised AT LEAST 4 separate albums, but gave a box set glorifying himself instead.. which most members didn't even receive before it was already in stores. So much for exlusive music, let alone promises... such arrogance shows me that he is still in the dark...

minneapolisgenius said:

No I am not a good fam!
You know why !! BTW 777-9311 ... what's your phone #
LOL

xenophobia2002 said:

That IS my phone #. You know that!

Well, I’ve finally picked up the book this morning and worked through it in less than a day. I tried to keep any preconceptions to a minimum and, before I started, I wasn’t overly bothered by the subtitle…

However, from early on there were worrying signs about the ‘quality’ of the book, and of the journalistic qualifications of the author. Early reports circulating that it was the Wall Street Journal meets The National Enquirer are probably misleading on both fronts. Yes, it IS gossipy, but it could have been a lot worse. As it is, the book works on one level only… a semi-interesting collection of quotes from Prince’s circle through the years, as cobbled together by Hahn.

As a work of journalism it’s scrappy, and at times nothing short of woeful. Without exaggeration the book features the most spelling and punctual errors I’ve encountered within a dust jacket. And frankly, at this level, Hahn has to shoulder some of the blame. With almost a handful of everyday four letter words going the way of the typo, you have to wonder how much care was put into this. And his constant errors, when name-checking Prince’s offshoot bands, gets more than a little annoying. Perhaps, like the purple one himself, Hahn allows himself his own set of typographical rules, which you’ll just have 2 get used 2.

Worse still is the ambitious claim come page 250 that he will try and avoid being ‘duplicative’ during his ‘comprehensive’ appendix. Sweet Jesus – it’s a bit of a boast given he’s just written a study in duplicity during the previous 250 pages! So much information is relayed time and again that I couldn’t decide whether Hahn was writing for the Attention Deficit Generation who would trawl through his tome at a page a week, or he was just a poor writer with no sense of remaining fresh.

Morris Day joins Prince’s band and they are suddenly re-christened Champagne and now managed by Day’s mother. Then, after what must have been a glitch in The Matrix, this all happens again a chapter on. If you missed the bit about why LoveSexy was a strange CD due to the lack of a ‘sequence index’ then Hahn will explain it again for those at the back about five pages later. As for Rosie Gaines’s prediction about the fate of Matye and Prince, well… you get the picture.

Of course, at least in the above examples, the duplicity is nothing if not ‘just that’. The same fate does not await Duane Nelson, whose relationship to Prince is mentioned each and every time after his name! Not only overkill, but it’s nice to see him climb up the ranks from being a stepbrother (no blood relation) to being a half-brother. Well done Duane - you stick in son, and soon you’ll be officially one of Mattie’s own!

I might as well also take Hahn to court over his ‘angle’ and the way he cuts the book in half – the Rise and Fall. You see, the thing is Hahn only likes a handful of Prince albums after he reaches his peak. And, after Purple Rain, he confesses a fondness for three others with a further one almost making the grade. And which albums are these? Sign O’ The Times, The Gold Experience, Emancipation and The Rainbow Children (sort of). The only problem is that these are heavily bulked in the ‘Losing It’ section of his book. He cites Sign O’ The Times as a great album (what a rebel!), and then immediately moves onto how Prince is now in freefall!

But this doesn’t make any sense now, does it? If he’s justifying it purely on record sales, then technically Prince’s acceleration downhill never reached higher speeds than it did after Purple Rain and the We Are The World fiasco. But, in order to keep up a pretence that something important was still happening in PrinceWorld until after Sign O’ The Times, Hahn tells us that after Purple Rain his popularity in Europe was still on the increase. So perhaps his fall isn’t right after Purple Rain? In that case, Alex, you should stick to your own convictions, and show that his European popularity, whilst growing, was still five years from its peak at the point you think he turned a corner!

In truth, Prince’s career was to be one of peaks (of not quite Purple Rain levels) and troughs. And the spanner in the works all came from his enlightenment – the name change, the Warner fallout, both of which done severe damage to his commercial clout.

Hahn’s examination of the music isn’t awful, but neither is it what was promised. ‘In depth’ it is not, and Hahn relies on repeating comparisons from other reviews. In fact, ‘reviews’ of Prince albums, also show how hard he pushes his own agenda. In the instances where Hahn approves of an album, he showers us quotes from the positive reviews, and vice versa. Only when he can’t seem to make up his own mind (The Rainbow Children) do we get what we should have received all along – a mix of the good and the bad.

Hahn also ignores Prince as a live force, Oh, he covers the tours and all that. But Prince’s own outstanding live abilities are mostly ignored, and the gruelling schedule for the Minneapolis Genius is never evident. It also takes Hahn until the LoveSexy section to even mention the word ‘Aftershow’ with no accompanying description of what is actually is! And, if you’re not a Prince fan, who’s to say you’re gonna know? The Princely Phenomenon of the Aftershow is given one more mention, but still no explanation as to the what, when or how.

Hahn also lacks any journalistic flair which Liz Jones, with much less to work with, wasn’t short of. There are no humorous injections that don’t come directly from quotes, or clever juxtapositions within the text. It also stinks of amateur hour when you see the same phrases pop up time and again from ’affable’ Alex. Scarcely an album goes by without it being ‘plodding’ or ‘pedestrian’ and it’s all so ‘co-incidentally’ this or that. His first draft (surely what I’ve just read) should have been returned with a ‘try harder’ note and complementary thesaurus.

Hahn is also not that great at putting the pieces of his jigsaw together. He never really gets under Prince’s skin, or understands what makes him tick. But, I guess, there is enough material on offer for you to work it out yourself. Prince’s unrivalled productivity comes at just the moment he cuts off almost everyone – both events cannot be mutually exclusive.

And if you’ve ever read a biography of the late Adolf Hitler, you will notice some striking similarities between their business methods – Hitler’s in war (as he seems to be losing the battle) and Prince’s (as his star is on the wane). As Hitler faced losing the war to the Russians, he would continually come up with a new get-out scheme: the next time the Germans won a battle, he would use this momentum to agree a peace deal with Stalin, who might accept under those circumstances. But, of course, as soon as Hitler got the victory, he suddenly became convinced that total victory was at hand and pressed on until he eventually lost everything. And so it is with Prince, whose every success is viewed as vindication that he was right all along, as he strides headlong into an even bigger business disaster. His self-released successes (The Most Beautiful Girl In The World, Crystal Ball – at least financially) may have done him more harm than good. With Prince now bunked up in his Paisley money pit, the answer is clear – hope and pray for another ‘Clive Davis / Rave’ opportunity – and if at first it doesn’t sell millions, then promote the shit out of it, even if it takes you two years.

As for Alex – my advice would be to stick to the court room. The book isn’t terrible by any means – and let’s face it, as a showbiz biog/tell all, it’s already categorised as part of the very asshole of the written word. But Alex talked a good fight before this one was released and, aside from the fundamental errors, he just can’t catch fire as a writer. His editors have to take some of the blame too. Next time, Alex, don’t thank anyone in your intro for ‘eagle-eyed editing’ when there are schoolboy errors all over the place! Send Part II to me first, and I’ll help you lick it into shape. For the usual fee.

McD said:

Copy..Print...Save

warning2all said:

All that and it's about the music?