Kares said:

JorisE73 said:

Because it wasn't as overtly pushed on us like how people make it seem. He was religious, I was spiritual, the message was pretty much the same, I just don't believe or care dfor a 'god' figure.

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Well, I know for a fact that a lot of fans felt that he was pushing his religion onto them during several of his eras. I never felt so, but he was certainly just as open about his faith as any priest I've ever seen, and he was just as open about it in his lyrics.
Besides, several of his friends tell stories of how P was often far more enthusiastic about having private conversations about Jesus and/or the Bible than about music or anything else.

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Anyway, as I said above, my petition doesn't even mention God or religion past the Introduction.

I guess it's just someones opinion on how much he pushed it. I wasn't bothered by it and welcomed his spirituality. once he bacame more closed minded with his JW period is when I zoned out mostly, the music and perofrmances still banged tho.

JorisE73 said:

Kares said:

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Well, I know for a fact that a lot of fans felt that he was pushing his religion onto them during several of his eras. I never felt so, but he was certainly just as open about his faith as any priest I've ever seen, and he was just as open about it in his lyrics.
Besides, several of his friends tell stories of how P was often far more enthusiastic about having private conversations about Jesus and/or the Bible than about music or anything else.

.
Anyway, as I said above, my petition doesn't even mention God or religion past the Introduction.

I guess it's just someones opinion on how much he pushed it. I wasn't bothered by it and welcomed his spirituality. once he bacame more closed minded with his JW period is when I zoned out mostly, the music and perofrmances still banged tho.

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Understood. BTW, I've never been a fan of churches or organised religion either, and for me 'faith in God' and 'spirituality' are synonyms, so I always appreciated that side of him too, even though I didn't agree with everything he ever said/wrote either. He was certainly a truth seeker, a deeply spiritual person with genuinely good intentions and a big heart – and I think his boldness in repeatedly declaring his faith publicly was amazing. And yes, of course he said/wrote some stupid shit too, but as far as I know he always remained one who kept raising questions too, regarding JW too.

Kares said:

JorisE73 said:

I guess it's just someones opinion on how much he pushed it. I wasn't bothered by it and welcomed his spirituality. once he bacame more closed minded with his JW period is when I zoned out mostly, the music and perofrmances still banged tho.

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Understood. BTW, I've never been a fan of churches or organised religion either, and for me 'faith in God' and 'spirituality' are synonyms, so I always appreciated that side of him too, even though I didn't agree with everything he ever said/wrote either. He was certainly a truth seeker, a deeply spiritual person with genuinely good intentions and a big heart – and I think his boldness in repeatedly declaring his faith publicly was amazing. And yes, of course he said/wrote some stupid shit too, but as far as I know he always remained one who kept raising questions too, regarding JW too.

Someone once told a story about how the JW club and Larry sometimes needed to reel him in in panic because he was questioning or spouting things against some JW's doctrine in his passion and enthusiasm and that it was also the reason he eventually just dropped them years later.
Organized religious in my book is mostly the same as organized crime, I'll follow my own path to do whatever I think is right, and if it's not then learning from it is better than just to be told or ordered and not knowing why or that 'god works in mystrious ways'.

JorisE73 said:

Kares said:

.
Understood. BTW, I've never been a fan of churches or organised religion either, and for me 'faith in God' and 'spirituality' are synonyms, so I always appreciated that side of him too, even though I didn't agree with everything he ever said/wrote either. He was certainly a truth seeker, a deeply spiritual person with genuinely good intentions and a big heart – and I think his boldness in repeatedly declaring his faith publicly was amazing. And yes, of course he said/wrote some stupid shit too, but as far as I know he always remained one who kept raising questions too, regarding JW too.

Someone once told a story about how the JW club and Larry sometimes needed to reel him in in panic because he was questioning or spouting things against some JW's doctrine in his passion and enthusiasm and that it was also the reason he eventually just dropped them years later.
Organized religious in my book is mostly the same as organized crime, I'll follow my own path to do whatever I think is right, and if it's not then learning from it is better than just to be told or ordered and not knowing why or that 'god works in mystrious ways'.

.

So what did you mean on "all that stuff is laughable" earlier?

Kares said:

JorisE73 said:

Someone once told a story about how the JW club and Larry sometimes needed to reel him in in panic because he was questioning or spouting things against some JW's doctrine in his passion and enthusiasm and that it was also the reason he eventually just dropped them years later.
Organized religious in my book is mostly the same as organized crime, I'll follow my own path to do whatever I think is right, and if it's not then learning from it is better than just to be told or ordered and not knowing why or that 'god works in mystrious ways'.

.

So what did you mean on "all that stuff is laughable" earlier?

Organized religion and the idea of some 'god'.
To me the irony of people hiding behind organized religions and pretending to be so loving and openminded because someone told them so in some book but can't fathom the idea people not needing a book to be as loving is just sad but hilarious at the same time. People blindly following good and bad ideas in a book and are activbely opposing people who do better without the need of there book are kind of unloving and dangerous in my mind.

[Edited 2/10/26 9:39am]

JorisE73 said:

Kares said:

.

So what did you mean on "all that stuff is laughable" earlier?

Organized religion and the idea of some 'god'.
To me the irony of people hiding behind organized religions and pretending to be so loving and openminded because someone told them so in some book but can't fathom the idea people not needing a book to be as loving is just sad but hilarious at the same time. People blindly following good and bad ideas in a book and are activbely opposing people who do better without the need of there book are kind of unloving and dangerous in my mind.

[Edited 2/10/26 9:39am]

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Gotcha. And mostly agree. I'd just add that not everyone who belongs to a church is only pretending, and some people do need to be told "by some book" to be loving and openminded. There are hypocrites and pretenders amongst the atheists too, some of them only pretend to do good, and some of them only pretend not having faith

ShellyMcG said:

olb99 said:

I'm an atheist, but even I can sense his spiritual "enthusiasm" (for lack of a better word) in his most spiritual songs and albums. Maybe not being a native English speaker helped in this regard. Anyway, yes, God/religion/spirituality was a significant part of Prince's work, for better or worse. This needs to be acknowledged in some way.

Acknowledged, yes. But not to the degree that it becomes the main event.

In full agreement with you.

[Edited 2/10/26 21:16pm]

Kares said:

ShellyMcG said:

I was with you until all the religious stuff. I do think that the fans should have some sort of say in how Prince's legacy is handled but not if it involves "spreading the word of God" or any of that nonsense. He was a popstar, not a priest.

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I'm okay with that. I mean I fully expected the religious aspect to be controversial and that it would put off some fans, I get it. Still, I appreciate your comment as it is actually the first one that shows interest. This is the kind of conversation I would like to have – hence labelling my proposal a work-in-progress. I'm happy to adjust/change things should we be able to form a real community and have meaningful discussions.

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My opinion is that while P obviously wasn't a priest, we cannot ignore his deeply religious/spiritual take on life as it is embedded into his work – and if we're talking about preserving his legacy, we cannot cherry-pick parts from his legacy, in my view, that would be disrespectful towards him.

Dearly beloved

Prince went from young wild choking sex, irresistible bitches and horny toads, to sex&god,

fucking the taste out of your mouth, rape-sex in a cab, incest,

mastubating with a magazine, and non-stop p.u.s.s.y.,

lost control over a bad drug trip, change his mind with loads of religious doubts and more sex,

went into fun projects like Exodus (with loads of 'motherfucker' words),

got into some strange wrong marriage, a sad horrible loss...and another strange marriage,

then came the self-cencorship w Larry and the knocking on doors shite,

attacked his own fans, took a while with trying to slowly letting it all go,

but, somehow seem to cool down a bit towards the end of his life.

Well, what a quite deeply religeous spiritual take on life, ain-it?

And all this on fentanyl, even unknowingly embedded into his work.

No disrespect at all to my hero, cause Prince was ONLY music, and nothing else but music.

And that alone is a goddamn lot better than his weird religions.

Sure we can't ignore that. I agree.

But it's a part of him i skip big time, cause it's so silly.

To me it somehow killed him; the ever search for inner peace. (imho)

Vannormal said:

Dearly beloved

Prince went from young wild choking sex, irresistible bitches and horny toads, to sex&god,

fucking the taste out of your mouth, rape-sex in a cab, incest,

mastubating with a magazine, and non-stop p.u.s.s.y.,

lost control over a bad drug trip, change his mind with loads of religious doubts and more sex,

went into fun projects like Exodus (with loads of 'motherfucker' words),

got into some strange wrong marriage, a sad horrible loss...and another strange marriage,

then came the self-cencorship w Larry and the knocking on doors shite,

attacked his own fans, took a while with trying to slowly letting it all go,

but, somehow seem to cool down a bit towards the end of his life.

Well, what a quite deeply religeous spiritual take on life, ain-it?

And all this on fentanyl, even unknowingly embedded into his work.

.

Apparently that is your take on his life and work.

Kares said:

Vannormal said:

Dearly beloved

Prince went from young wild choking sex, irresistible bitches and horny toads, to sex&god,

fucking the taste out of your mouth, rape-sex in a cab, incest,

mastubating with a magazine, and non-stop p.u.s.s.y.,

lost control over a bad drug trip, change his mind with loads of religious doubts and more sex,

went into fun projects like Exodus (with loads of 'motherfucker' words),

got into some strange wrong marriage, a sad horrible loss...and another strange marriage,

then came the self-cencorship w Larry and the knocking on doors shite,

attacked his own fans, took a while with trying to slowly letting it all go,

but, somehow seem to cool down a bit towards the end of his life.

Well, what a quite deeply religeous spiritual take on life, ain-it?

And all this on fentanyl, even unknowingly embedded into his work.

.

Apparently that is your take on his life and work.

I even dare to say that's what most fans (here in Europe) think.

I know the goal of this thread isn't to discuss religion, but since it came up:

• I'm probably less bothered than others here by the fact you mentioned God and religion in your document. Most people in the world hold religious beliefs. I'm used to living with them (family, friends, etc.). And debating religion with them, from time to time, though not always.
• "There are hypocrites and pretenders amongst the atheists too, some of them only pretend to do good, and some of them only pretend not having faith". Doing good and having faith are two completely different things. They can be linked, for some people, but ultimately, they're separate. Not to start a debate, but there are surely far more agnostics and atheists pretending to believe than the other way around, simply because the stakes are often higher when you're in the opposite situation, i.e. living among religious people but having lost your faith. There are atheist priests and pastors, after all (see The Clergy Project). In some parts of the world, declaring yourself an atheist is akin to a death sentence.
• For reasons that aren't entirely clear to me, I have no problem singing "God is love, love is God" when listening to Anna Stesia. I can feel Prince's belief in God, his spirituality, in that song. It's deeply moving. I'm deeply moved. I still don't believe in God when the song ends, but it doesn't matter. Something happened. Something deep. Does that make any sense? I don't know.
• Prince chose to express himself primarily through his music, including his worldview, his beliefs. As the example of Anna Stesia shows, it worked. When he was proselytizing outside of his music, I largely ignored him.

Anyway, I'll try to give feedback on other aspects of your document, but I need some time.

Kares: you should make "https://c.org/F29fxgzFBK" a clickable link in your post. I'm not sure many people with bother copy/pasting a URL, nowadays, unfortunately.

olb99 said:

• "There are hypocrites and pretenders amongst the atheists too, some of them only pretend to do good, and some of them only pretend not having faith". Doing good and having faith are two completely different things.

.

That's exactly the point I was trying to make, half-jokingly, hence the smiley in my original post.

leecaldon said:

ShellyMcG said:

olb99 said: Acknowledged, yes. But not to the degree that it becomes the main event.

In full agreement with you.

[Edited 2/10/26 21:16pm]

.
Please explain what makes you think that religion is "the main event" in the above petition, when – as I stated before – God is only mentioned once in the Introduction, but never in the main body of text, and religion isn't mentioned at all.

[Edited 2/11/26 9:17am]

Kares said:

leecaldon said:

In full agreement with you.

[Edited 2/10/26 21:16pm]

.
Please explain what makes you think that religion is "the main event" in the above petition, when – as I stated before – God is only mentioned once in the Introduction, but never in the main body of text, and religion isn't mentioned at all.

[Edited 2/11/26 9:17am]

"Prince’s life mission was to spread the word of God"

you don't know that, you made that up.

nextedition said:

Kares said:

.
Please explain what makes you think that religion is "the main event" in the above petition, when – as I stated before – God is only mentioned once in the Introduction, but never in the main body of text, and religion isn't mentioned at all.

[Edited 2/11/26 9:17am]

"Prince’s life mission was to spread the word of God"

you don't know that, you made that up.

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Yes, I "made it up". In other words: I drew that conclusion – from following him for 40+ years.

It's a shame non-French-speaking fans can't enjoy the wonderful Violet podcast, from Raphy and others. Frédéric Dumény spent years analyzing the lyrics throughout Prince's discography and makes it pretty clear that God is a central theme in his work.

olb99 said:

It's a shame non-French-speaking fans can't enjoy the wonderful Violet podcast, from Raphy and others. Frédéric Dumény spent years analyzing the lyrics throughout Prince's discography and makes it pretty clear that God is a central theme in his work.

No fan needs a podcast to know this simple fact. Prince was always heavily into God and tried to spread his beleives with his fans his entire career. People who say he didn't obviously never went to his shows or listened to his lyrics. All the way back to the early 80s his shows had religious themes and imagery (end time etc.)
Teh Controversy tour evcen tstarted with a thing called Teh Second Coming

[Edited 2/11/26 11:24am]

Kares said:

nextedition said:

"Prince’s life mission was to spread the word of God"

you don't know that, you made that up.

.

Yes, I "made it up". In other words: I drew that conclusion – from following him for 40+ years.

well than youi made the wrong conclusion.

If you followed him as you say you could only say maybe that music was his life mission.

JorisE73 said:

olb99 said:

It's a shame non-French-speaking fans can't enjoy the wonderful Violet podcast, from Raphy and others. Frédéric Dumény spent years analyzing the lyrics throughout Prince's discography and makes it pretty clear that God is a central theme in his work.

No fan needs a podcast to know this simple fact. Prince was always heavily into God and tried to spread his beleives with his fans his entire career. People who say he didn't obviously never went to his shows or listened to his lyrics. All the way back to the early 80s his shows had religious themes and imagery (end time etc.)
Teh Controversy tour evcen tstarted with a thing called Teh Second Coming

[Edited 2/11/26 11:24am]

Yeah, I mean, there's a lot more to it. The podcast is excellent and is a must-listen for all French-speaking fans, I think.

[Edited 2/12/26 6:13am]

I signed.In all the way.

I'll be honest, all I want is to be able to buy more unreleased music. Not really interested at all in anything else.

EnglishGent2 said:

I'll be honest, all I want is to be able to buy more unreleased music. Not really interested at all in anything else.

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I hear you. But P was interested in a lot of things, and his legacy is way more than just music.

EnglishGent2 said:

ShellyMcG said:

EnglishGent2 said:

I'll be honest, all I want is to be able to buy more unreleased music. Not really interested at all in anything else.

Honestly, same. But I signed the petition anyway in the hope that all roads eventually lead to new releases of vault material.

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I appreciate that.
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And as you said, and this is a very important aspect: even if someone is only interested in getting more music, supporting efforts that can lead to prolonging P's cultural impact and getting his name even more recognised actually leads to more music getting released too.

[Edited 2/14/26 8:52am]

NoSwan said:

(Love) Signed!

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Thanks for your support!
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And I appreciate anyone sharing the petition as widely as possible.

Here are my thoughts on why few people have signed the petition. This is all meant to be respectful, constructive feedback. If anything comes across as insulting, that is unintentional:

1.) The petition is too long. Few will take the time to read it. A petition should be a statement of intent, not a treatise. The most effective way to convey an idea is to be concise.

2.) The petition is a statement of your own personal beliefs, rather than a reflection of the consensus of fandom. Of course we all want more vault material released, but you went beyond that (for example, the religious stuff). The petition would garner more support if it narrowly focused on the obvious stuff everyone wants, rather than injecting your own personal vision.

3.) Some fans may not sign it because a petition is largely performative. It has no authority. TTC aren't obligated to even read it, let alone act upon it. Petitions are like shouting at the sky. Of course some thoughtful businesses may give petitions weight if they believe they're truly reflective of their customer base, but TTC strike me as the type to respond to a petition with spite, not empathy.

[Edited 2/15/26 14:13pm]

Kares said:

NoSwan said:

(Love) Signed!

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Thanks for your support!
.
And I appreciate anyone sharing the petition as widely as possible.

Done

IAMXAKASLIM