I know Matt Fink has talked about this song being one of the few times he used a sequencer......

.

.

But wondering which parts are sequenced? I always assumed it was the high hat because I think in the film you see him playing the same key over and over with 2 fingers.

.

.

But listening to it today, I feel like there's a synth bass that is repeating (as well as an actual bass line). so maybe the repeating synth bass is sequenced to the Linn high -hat? Whiel Mark plays the actual bass line?

.

.

Also there's that weird, downward "glissando/portemento" that starts out really high and occurs on the "3" of the first measure of the chorus. I used to think that was a bass guitar slide, but now I think it might be another seqeunced synth?

GaryMF said:

But listening to it today, I feel like there's a synth bass that is repeating (as well as an actual bass line). so maybe the repeating synth bass is sequenced to the Linn high -hat? Whiel Mark plays the actual bass line?

The bass is probably a sequenced synth, as it would kill your hands playing it live.
Feaseable, but you need a classic virtuoso to sustain it for so long, especially in the 30 minutes rehearsal version, of which only 10 minutes were kept for the "US remix" (even though it's debatable if the 16th synth sequence is present at all in this version).

GaryMF said:

Also there's that weird, downward "glissando/portemento" that starts out really high and occurs on the "3" of the first measure of the chorus. I used to think that was a bass guitar slide, but now I think it might be another seqeunced synth?

It's a synth, no need to sequence it, you only need to apply a slow ADSR to the pitch and press a key.
Synths have been able to do this since ages.
Laser effects for science-fi movies/series come to mind
(in this case the envelope goes very fast from a high note to a low one).

BonnieC said:

GaryMF said:

But listening to it today, I feel like there's a synth bass that is repeating (as well as an actual bass line). so maybe the repeating synth bass is sequenced to the Linn high -hat? Whiel Mark plays the actual bass line?

The bass is probably a sequenced synth, as it would kill your hands playing it live.
Feaseable, but you need a classic virtuoso to sustain it for so long, especially in the 30 minutes rehearsal version, of which only 10 minutes were kept for the "US remix" (even though it's debatable if the 16th synth sequence is present at all in this version).

GaryMF said:

Also there's that weird, downward "glissando/portemento" that starts out really high and occurs on the "3" of the first measure of the chorus. I used to think that was a bass guitar slide, but now I think it might be another seqeunced synth?

It's a synth, no need to sequence it, you only need to apply a slow ADSR to the pitch and press a key.
Synths have been able to do this since ages.
Laser effects for science-fi movies/series come to mind
(in this case the envelope goes very fast from a high note to a low one).

Thanks. Sounds like you know a lot about synth programming! I just play them I don't really mess with the sounds too much.

.

.

So for the latter part, isnt' the pitch changing (going from high to low?) Doesn't ADSR stand for Attack Delay Sustain RElease? How would that affet the pitch?.

.

Is it kind of like in that Rhianna song We Found Love there's something similar going on with these pulsing synth notes that sounds like the pitch is changing but it's really not it's more like an engine "revving"

GaryMF said:

BonnieC said:

It's a synth, no need to sequence it, you only need to apply a slow ADSR to the pitch and press a key.
Synths have been able to do this since ages.
Laser effects for science-fi movies/series come to mind
(in this case the envelope goes very fast from a high note to a low one).

Thanks. Sounds like you know a lot about synth programming! I just play them I don't really mess with the sounds too much.

.

.

So for the latter part, isnt' the pitch changing (going from high to low?) Doesn't ADSR stand for Attack Delay Sustain RElease? How would that affet the pitch?.

.

Is it kind of like in that Rhianna song We Found Love there's something similar going on with these pulsing synth notes that sounds like the pitch is changing but it's really not it's more like an engine "revving"

ADSRs, or rather, LFOs, can also be applied to pitch,
not only on the amplitude of volume, or the timbre of the sound.
ADSRs for pitch are found in evolved/high-end synth models.

An ambulance/fire/police siren is precisely that,
a synthetic sound (wave) which is made to oscillate from on...to another in slow or rapid sequence,
depending on how it's been programmed.

You should definitely mess with the sound of your synths!
At first it's all obtuse terms and concepts, but once your ears
understand what a particular knob or setting does, it gets gradually easier.

Of course when Prince was messing in Chris Moon's studio,
it helped that synths had physical knobs, it made them easier to tweak,
but difficult to save your own sounds (you had to scribble down where every knob was set at).

There are some free synths available that can help you understand the basics
without messing with your physical synths, this one comes to mind.
Here's where to download it.

BonnieC said:

GaryMF said:

Thanks. Sounds like you know a lot about synth programming! I just play them I don't really mess with the sounds too much.

.

.

So for the latter part, isnt' the pitch changing (going from high to low?) Doesn't ADSR stand for Attack Delay Sustain RElease? How would that affet the pitch?.

.

Is it kind of like in that Rhianna song We Found Love there's something similar going on with these pulsing synth notes that sounds like the pitch is changing but it's really not it's more like an engine "revving"

ADSRs, or rather, LFOs, can also be applied to pitch,
not only on the amplitude of volume, or the timbre of the sound.
ADSRs for pitch are found in evolved/high-end synth models.

An ambulance/fire/police siren is precisely that,
a synthetic sound (wave) which is made to oscillate from on...to another in slow or rapid sequence,
depending on how it's been programmed.

You should definitely mess with the sound of your synths!
At first it's all obtuse terms and concepts, but once your ears
understand what a particular knob or setting does, it gets gradually easier.

Of course when Prince was messing in Chris Moon's studio,
it helped that synths had physical knobs, it made them easier to tweak,
but difficult to save your own sounds (you had to scribble down where every knob was set at).

There are some free synths available that can help you understand the basics
without messing with your physical synths, this one comes to mind.
Here's where to download it.

thanks!

.

.

So that thing in IWD4U is basically like a quick glissando or more like a slide down a guitar neck (since there is "steppign" between notes, rather smooth glide"), done by controlling the LFO . so he just hits one key and it slides itself down?

..

I guess in that Rhianna song it's the same pitch but it's changing resonance or something else? Or like when you hear a note and it stays on pitch but somehow it kind of "revvs" not just gettin glouder but somehow it gets "fatter" as you hold it?

GaryMF said:

.

So that thing in IWD4U is basically like a quick glissando or more like a slide down a guitar neck (since there is "steppign" between notes, rather smooth glide"), done by controlling the LFO . so he just hits one key and it slides itself down?

..

I guess in that Rhianna song it's the same pitch but it's changing resonance or something else? Or like when you hear a note and it stays on pitch but somehow it kind of "revvs" not just gettin glouder but somehow it gets "fatter" as you hold it?

1. On some synths, like the venerable Korg M1, you get an ADSR envelope to apply to the pitch.
Here's an example.

So basically yes, in IWD4U, every time the key is pressed, the envelope pitch goes from up to down (envelopes are not infinite, so the finger is lifted before the note stabilizes, in other words before the final pitch is reached, in other words before the envelope has run its full course).



2. In the Rhianna song, I presume you're referring to the sound that starts around 0:50?
So it's the same thing, the envelope is stretched so it takes 15 seconds to "climb".
In this case, at the very end, the final pitch (destination) stays for a second or two. Or maybe it's a delay triggered just at the end, that gives this feeling.

The trick is that the synth is "ducked" by a side-chained compressor, meaning another signal "opens" and "closes" the synth sound: when the signal is received, the volume is 100, when there is no signal the volume is 0.

A good example of a side-chain compression would be "Kiss", where David Z. used it on a processed acoustic guitar, which is triggered by the hi-hat, so to the ear it sounds like the guitar plays like a hi-hat. In other words, we hear the guitar only when the hi-hat signal is received. Furthermore, the attack is set to a slow setting, therefore we don't hear the initial strums, instead we get the infamous wobbling effect.

So in the case of "Kiss", the transitions between "volume on/ volume off" are less abrupt than in "We Found Love", where it is extreme (the synth sound is either on or off, no nuances).

As for the sound getting "brighter", "fatter" or whatever, you can also apply an envelope to the filter or the resonance, in this case it's probable it's roughly the same envelope as the one used for the pitch, so it also takes 15 seconds to go from "dull" to "bright".



Arturia's Pigments is a monster when it comes to creating and applying envelopes, which you can assign to whatever parameter the preset has, and then have the envelope morphed by a LFO, or the other way around, and then have another envelope morphing the previous result, it's nuts.

What is great about it is that you get a visual feedback of what the envelopes are doing, in real-time, which makes programming a lot more intuitive.

BonnieC said:

GaryMF said:

.

So that thing in IWD4U is basically like a quick glissando or more like a slide down a guitar neck (since there is "steppign" between notes, rather smooth glide"), done by controlling the LFO . so he just hits one key and it slides itself down?

..

I guess in that Rhianna song it's the same pitch but it's changing resonance or something else? Or like when you hear a note and it stays on pitch but somehow it kind of "revvs" not just gettin glouder but somehow it gets "fatter" as you hold it?

1. On some synths, like the venerable Korg M1, you get an ADSR envelope to apply to the pitch.
Here's an example.

So basically yes, in IWD4U, every time the key is pressed, the envelope pitch goes from up to down (envelopes are not infinite, so the finger is lifted before the note stabilizes, in other words before the final pitch is reached, in other words before the envelope has run its full course).



2. In the Rhianna song, I presume you're referring to the sound that starts around 0:50?
So it's the same thing, the envelope is stretched so it takes 15 seconds to "climb".
In this case, at the very end, the final pitch (destination) stays for a second or two. Or maybe it's a delay triggered just at the end, that gives this feeling.

The trick is that the synth is "ducked" by a side-chained compressor, meaning another signal "opens" and "closes" the synth sound: when the signal is received, the volume is 100, when there is no signal the volume is 0.

A good example of a side-chain compression would be "Kiss", where David Z. used it on a processed acoustic guitar, which is triggered by the hi-hat, so to the ear it sounds like the guitar plays like a hi-hat. In other words, we hear the guitar only when the hi-hat signal is received. Furthermore, the attack is set to a slow setting, therefore we don't hear the initial strums, instead we get the infamous wobbling effect.

So in the case of "Kiss", the transitions between "volume on/ volume off" are less abrupt than in "We Found Love", where it is extreme (the synth sound is either on or off, no nuances).

As for the sound getting "brighter", "fatter" or whatever, you can also apply an envelope to the filter or the resonance, in this case it's probable it's roughly the same envelope as the one used for the pitch, so it also takes 15 seconds to go from "dull" to "bright".



Arturia's Pigments is a monster when it comes to creating and applying envelopes, which you can assign to whatever parameter the preset has, and then have the envelope morphed by a LFO, or the other way around, and then have another envelope morphing the previous result, it's nuts.

What is great about it is that you get a visual feedback of what the envelopes are doing, in real-time, which makes programming a lot more intuitive.

Wow! Learning so much from you! . .

.

Since you are so good at this, maybe you know this: there's a certain "wobble" that occurs in synth brass that I never know how to make. I sort of use the. mod wheel or pitch bend wheel... or maybe it's playing different notes in the chord???

.

.

It occurs in the glamorous life part 2, also in the 12" to let's go crazy......at 5:18, 5:21, 5:29, 5:31 etc (will put the links below). Especially in Jesse Johnson's "Be Your Man", it's the last part of the synth riff (at 0:31 and 0:38). ..

.

I think that chord is Amin7. When I play "Head" sometimes I voice it with the C on top but then hit it again with out hte C so Gand A are on top but then it again so C is on top to kind of re-create that sound. But I'm not sure wha'ts really going on. .

.

Let's Go Crazy: https://youtu.be/zg490hrz...&t=315

.

.

Be your Man: https://www.youtube.com/w...M7mDxjwgaw

.

Glam Life part 2: https://www.youtube.com/w...M&t=7s

GaryMF said:

.

Since you are so good at this, maybe you know this: there's a certain "wobble" that occurs in synth brass that I never know how to make. I sort of use the. mod wheel or pitch bend wheel... or maybe it's playing different notes in the chord???

.

.

It occurs in the glamorous life part 2, also in the 12" to let's go crazy......at 5:18, 5:21, 5:29, 5:31 etc (will put the links below). Especially in Jesse Johnson's "Be Your Man", it's the last part of the synth riff (at 0:31 and 0:38). ..

.

I think that chord is Amin7. When I play "Head" sometimes I voice it with the C on top but then hit it again with out hte C so Gand A are on top but then it again so C is on top to kind of re-create that sound. But I'm not sure wha'ts really going on. .

.

Let's Go Crazy: https://youtu.be/zg490hrz...&t=315

.

.

Be your Man: https://www.youtube.com/w...M7mDxjwgaw

.

Glam Life part 2: https://www.youtube.com/w...M&t=7s

That's the Mod Wheel for sure, wich probably opens a LFO which makes the fast vibrato we hear.
I think the passage is in B minor, which means the riff notes should alternate between (in ascending order):


B-F#-A (hold and vibrato/mod wheel)
B-E-G#
B-F#-A
B-E-G#

B-F#-A (hold and vibrato/mod wheel)
B-E-G#
B-F#-A
B-E-G#

You can hold the B (thumb) bewteen chord #1 and chord #2, and bewteen chord #3 and chord #4,
just make sure you lift the whole hand fast to make the chord #2 and #4
very short, as on the record.
If your pinky and your finger are a little weak/imprecise at this speed (right hand fingers should be: 1-3-5 / 1-2-4), you can cheat by playing the B with your left hand and use your right for F#-A / E-G# with fingers 2-4 and 1-3

The LFO making the vibrato must be very pronounced, that's what causes the sound to wooble when the mod wheel is pushed. You have to go very fast with the modulation wheel, pushing it and releasing it right on the second chord (B-E-G#).
If your synth/plugin allows it, reroute the LFO vibrato to use the pitch bend wheel instead of the mod wheel. Because the pitch wheel is springed, you'll just have to release it and will go back in place with no effort, just like in the video above.



It's an effect much easier to play when your keyboard has aftertouch (with you can trigger the vibrato by pressing your fingers on the keys instead of using the wheel), sadly it's a feature that comes at a premium price nowadays, when it was standard on all keyboards in the good ol' days.

If you can get your hands on a Korg M1 (circa 300€), it has the best modulation control ever, it uses a single springed joystick (I hate wheels) for pitch (x axis) and modulation (y axis).



Also, there are some dead notes in there: before the riff, there's the descending melodic phrase:

A-G#-E-E
A-G#-E-E-F#-B (hold and vibrato/mod wheel)

Instead of playing the first A straight, you can arpeggiate from bottom to top, (B-F#-)A, but going very very fast, like a snare flam, in other words you flam the B-F# keys right before we hear the first A.

Don't hesitate to experiment, adding some little flams here and there in between notes, it makes synth riffs sound more alive, like horns.
Add some tiny errors in it, short hesitations, false starts, a.k.a. "blue notes"!

Coming back to the chords, try also playing the notes of the chord (B-F#-A) as an ascending flam, except you keep B and F# pressed.
The "dead notes" of the flams are key to make synth riffs more organic.
You can try adding from time to time a (very) short and fast (starting from the B an octave below) glissando (with your left hand) to the first (B-F#-A) chord.


Lastly, make sure you put a big fat chorus effect on your synth brass sound, keep in mind Prince used to put his Boss pedals on everything.

... Man, we're definitely making the "Music" in "Music and More" in here!

[Edited 6/6/25 14:32pm]

I need to take lessons from you! .

.

I'm atuallky not a keyboard (I'm at Celebratio right now) but the first part with the Bm chords seem like yoiu're shoiwngme what happesn in Let's Go Crazy if I imagine it in my head.

.

I instictively do the gliss up to the first chord on a lot of songs. And I have played 'bords with the joystick so I defintiey know what you're talking about,

.

Without being at my keyboard I am not sure what the last part is referring to, the descending "flam" section is referring to (still LGC?)

.

.

And I assume the for Be Your Man one could use the same thing you listed with the 4 Bm chords but that last part is is jsut 2 chords (I thik it's Am7 but again I'm not at a 'board) now and yo just mod wheel the 1st one, something like:

E-G-A- C (mod wheel)

E-G-A

or something like that? (the part after the "Oh, Oh, Oh")

BonnieC said:

GaryMF said:

.

Since you are so good at this, maybe you know this: there's a certain "wobble" that occurs in synth brass that I never know how to make. I sort of use the. mod wheel or pitch bend wheel... or maybe it's playing different notes in the chord???

.

.

It occurs in the glamorous life part 2, also in the 12" to let's go crazy......at 5:18, 5:21, 5:29, 5:31 etc (will put the links below). Especially in Jesse Johnson's "Be Your Man", it's the last part of the synth riff (at 0:31 and 0:38). ..

.

I think that chord is Amin7. When I play "Head" sometimes I voice it with the C on top but then hit it again with out hte C so Gand A are on top but then it again so C is on top to kind of re-create that sound. But I'm not sure wha'ts really going on. .

.

Let's Go Crazy: https://youtu.be/zg490hrz...&t=315

.

.

Be your Man: https://www.youtube.com/w...M7mDxjwgaw

.

Glam Life part 2: https://www.youtube.com/w...M&t=7s

That's the Mod Wheel for sure, wich probably opens a LFO which makes the fast vibrato we hear.
I think the passage is in B minor, which means the riff notes should alternate between (in ascending order):


B-F#-A (hold and vibrato/mod wheel)
B-E-G#
B-F#-A
B-E-G#

B-F#-A (hold and vibrato/mod wheel)
B-E-G#
B-F#-A
B-E-G#

You can hold the B (thumb) bewteen chord #1 and chord #2, and bewteen chord #3 and chord #4,
just make sure you lift the whole hand fast to make the chord #2 and #4
very short, as on the record.
If your pinky and your finger are a little weak/imprecise at this speed (right hand fingers should be: 1-3-5 / 1-2-4), you can cheat by playing the B with your left hand and use your right for F#-A / E-G# with fingers 2-4 and 1-3

The LFO making the vibrato must be very pronounced, that's what causes the sound to wooble when the mod wheel is pushed. You have to go very fast with the modulation wheel, pushing it and releasing it right on the second chord (B-E-G#).
If your synth/plugin allows it, reroute the LFO vibrato to use the pitch bend wheel instead of the mod wheel. Because the pitch wheel is springed, you'll just have to release it and will go back in place with no effort, just like in the video above.



It's an effect much easier to play when your keyboard has aftertouch (with you can trigger the vibrato by pressing your fingers on the keys instead of using the wheel), sadly it's a feature that comes at a premium price nowadays, when it was standard on all keyboards in the good ol' days.

If you can get your hands on a Korg M1 (circa 300€), it has the best modulation control ever, it uses a single springed joystick (I hate wheels) for pitch (x axis) and modulation (y axis).



Also, there are some dead notes in there: before the riff, there's the descending melodic phrase:

A-G#-E-E
A-G#-E-E-F#-B (hold and vibrato/mod wheel)

Instead of playing the first A straight, you can arpeggiate from bottom to top, (B-F#-)A, but going very very fast, like a snare flam, in other words you flam the B-F# keys right before we hear the first A.

Don't hesitate to experiment, adding some little flams here and there in between notes, it makes synth riffs sound more alive, like horns.
Add some tiny errors in it, short hesitations, false starts, a.k.a. "blue notes"!

Coming back to the chords, try also playing the notes of the chord (B-F#-A) as an ascending flam, except you keep B and F# pressed.
The "dead notes" of the flams are key to make synth riffs more organic.
You can try adding from time to time a (very) short and fast (starting from the B an octave below) glissando (with your left hand) to the first (B-F#-A) chord.


Lastly, make sure you put a big fat chorus effect on your synth brass sound, keep in mind Prince used to put his Boss pedals on everything.

... Man, we're definitely making the "Music" in "Music and More" in here!

[Edited 6/6/25 14:32pm]

GaryMF said:

I know Matt Fink has talked about this song being one of the few times he used a sequencer......

.

.

But wondering which parts are sequenced? I always assumed it was the high hat because I think in the film you see him playing the same key over and over with 2 fingers.

.

.

But listening to it today, I feel like there's a synth bass that is repeating (as well as an actual bass line). so maybe the repeating synth bass is sequenced to the Linn high -hat? Whiel Mark plays the actual bass line?

.

.

Also there's that weird, downward "glissando/portemento" that starts out really high and occurs on the "3" of the first measure of the chorus. I used to think that was a bass guitar slide, but now I think it might be another seqeunced synth?

Fink says Prince played it on the record. He asked Prince to use a sequencer live because it was too difficult with everything else going on.