NouveauDance said:

robertgeorge8 said:

Get Spike Lee. He has done Michael Jackson documentaries that were worthwhile and stayed clear of the scandals (or accusations if you prefer).

People are saying they don't want a whitewash but you're describing just that.

And that is EXACTLY what is needed. You don't introduce a new or unfamiliar audience to somebody by putting the four worst aspects of his life as a the key feature of his life, the parts that will stay with the audience and make them condemn him to the me-too trash can of history.

I am not happy with Prince being consigned to being a legacy act or forgotten part of the eighties, or being the 'weird dude' from the Chappellle sketch. That is what a warts and all doco would do.

For me you focus on his music, it is a tribute, look at the Spike Lee Michael Jackson documentaries, the Beatles' Anthology and the features done about Elvis by the Elvis estate or the Chuck Berry feature Hail hail rock and roll.

If you listen to Prince's music and watch the footage, you know enough about him. I know the estate has many flaws but not doing the above is not one of them. They clearly needed to be more specific with what they requested for the documentary.

I need to know about Prince the musician and I don't need to see the dirt under his fingernails.

How about a backstage and rehearsal footage type film - think "this is it by Michael Jackson" ?
with some talking heads and some after parties for the London 21 Nights in London, footage of Amy Winehouse, Gnarls Barkley, the Elton John performance, etc. ??

muleFunk said:

I'm sick of this bullshit. First, the Estate that exists now was not the estate that exists now.So their parameters are died from what existed in 2017. It's no mystery that Netflix has targeted Black male entertainers with their shockumentaries.Michael Bland and Cat Glover said they refused to answer questions that seemed to smear Prince. I don't understand why that estate even allowed them access to his life. Second, I love Jill Jones. I think that she has more of a movie about Prince than Mayte. I believe her. However I have problems with the twisting of this story According to people who saw this she said that she smacked Prince in the face and then he punched her.She proceeded to stay with him until 1990.I am all good about that being in it's own feature. Why are you hijacking this? Same with Wendy. Wendy should have cussed him out and went on. Instead every story since his death has been about how she wrote his music.

Shockumentaires or not, it's the public that eats it. You and I don't have to swallow it.

What Michael Bland and Cat refused to aswer, was within context. None of us was there, and none of us knows what it was about, even if you presume it 'seemed' to smear Prince. No certainty about all that.

The Estate allowed the doc makers to go through his life by whatever there is in the vault, srightfully so, and whatever the peopel of his old and current his entourage were able to say. It was a choice. Period.

Why would Jill Jones have more to a movie than Mayte, we were not there. Not even when Mayte lost a child, and Prince the fuck didn't know what to do. Mayte's story is known by her words.

What happened between Jill and Prince when they were extremely young (what, 4 or 5 decaded ago?), in a total different time frame and position of their fame status, plus, it's being stretched so far out of context here and in the current media. So what is it worth... Nothing. Until we see and hear about it in the actual documentary, which isn't the case until it leaks. (And I'm sure it will be leaked one day.)

If one of my beloved best friends says something to me like Prince told Wendy, I would be in shock and for sure not knowing how to react. She has all the right to talk about this the way she wants.

And for your information, many of Prince's early collaborators wrote parts of his music. He for sure recorded and performed mostly all of it by himself. But it is known how much he adored to be influenced by others, and was open to the ideas of those around him. Wendy or whomever have the right to say what they wrote.

robertgeorge8 said:

NouveauDance said:

People are saying they don't want a whitewash but you're describing just that.

And that is EXACTLY what is needed. You don't introduce a new or unfamiliar audience to somebody by putting the four worst aspects of his life as a the key feature of his life, the parts that will stay with the audience and make them condemn him to the me-too trash can of history.

I am not happy with Prince being consigned to being a legacy act or forgotten part of the eighties, or being the 'weird dude' from the Chappellle sketch. That is what a warts and all doco would do.

For me you focus on his music, it is a tribute, look at the Spike Lee Michael Jackson documentaries, the Beatles' Anthology and the features done about Elvis by the Elvis estate or the Chuck Berry feature Hail hail rock and roll.

If you listen to Prince's music and watch the footage, you know enough about him. I know the estate has many flaws but not doing the above is not one of them. They clearly needed to be more specific with what they requested for the documentary.

I need to know about Prince the musician and I don't need to see the dirt under his fingernails.

How about a backstage and rehearsal footage type film - think "this is it by Michael Jackson" ?
with some talking heads and some after parties for the London 21 Nights in London, footage of Amy Winehouse, Gnarls Barkley, the Elton John performance, etc. ??

I can hardly believe that you write this.

So the "me-too trash can of history", was not needed then?

-

Be sure, the Estate was very clear about what they requested : money. More money. Nothing else.

-

Well, Prince once said : "all you need to know about me is in my music". There ya go.

-

People will not stay away from an eighties artist when they know the truth about his mysterious life, (which he obviously never wanted to come out). You're wrong in that. It will gain only more attention. Thats what the world is all about right now. Shockumentaires! Smear it out!

Most youngsters eat it like 5 dozens of greasy donuts, then stream the shit of his music, buy some music maybe, and go on to the next.

We the +50 people have the wallets. Not the young ones.

Vannormal said:

Vannormal said:

robertgeorge8 said:

NouveauDance said:

People are saying they don't want a whitewash but you're describing just that.

And that is EXACTLY what is needed. You don't introduce a new or unfamiliar audience to somebody by putting the four worst aspects of his life as a the key feature of his life, the parts that will stay with the audience and make them condemn him to the me-too trash can of history.

I am not happy with Prince being consigned to being a legacy act or forgotten part of the eighties, or being the 'weird dude' from the Chappellle sketch. That is what a warts and all doco would do.

For me you focus on his music, it is a tribute, look at the Spike Lee Michael Jackson documentaries, the Beatles' Anthology and the features done about Elvis by the Elvis estate or the Chuck Berry feature Hail hail rock and roll.

If you listen to Prince's music and watch the footage, you know enough about him. I know the estate has many flaws but not doing the above is not one of them. They clearly needed to be more specific with what they requested for the documentary.

I need to know about Prince the musician and I don't need to see the dirt under his fingernails.

How about a backstage and rehearsal footage type film - think "this is it by Michael Jackson" ?
with some talking heads and some after parties for the London 21 Nights in London, footage of Amy Winehouse, Gnarls Barkley, the Elton John performance, etc. ??

Some fans dont care about his legacy, its all about what "they" want. The estate is 100% right, who would allow someone to go though a deceased loved ones belongings and use that material in a negative film about them...

Telling how Netflix eventually sided with the estate and never once publicly backed their super duper award winning director

Perhaps the bottom line with future documentarians is the eternal tension between:

(a) one side wishing to preserve the legacy and reputation of a beloved hero, star, songwriter, performer, musician, genius etc at all costs

and

(b) the other side who feel that now he's gone, it dishonours his memory by pretending that he wasn't also a real person, or suppressing details of character flaws or incidents that cast him in a less heroic light

For me personally as a fan who benefited from decades of what he gave us, Prince the artist and stage persona... by April 2016 I felt ready to hear about Prince the human being, from the people who were actually there and a part of his life. I have no problem accepting that he messed up at times, or had some unsavory aspects to his character. It doesn't make me love his work less, it's just that we've all started to shift beyond hero worship and more towards appreciating the real person behind it all, a hardworking black kid from north MPLS who gave everything he had to his art, sometimes at great personal cost in terms of his character and emotional development, his relationships etc.

All the difficult stories we've heard, be they from Mayte, Morris, Jill, Wendy, Questlove or anyone else who was there - we should respect them, appreciate them, believe them, but consider them in context as mere pieces of the overall puzzle that was Prince Rogers Nelson. In one way or another many of the folk whose paths intersected with the Prince camp over the years emerged with some form of PTSD or at stockholm syndrome, there's no hiding that. For this reason I think the original Ezra Edelman documentary needs to eventually see the light of day, and until then anything we get will be a flimsy promo piece.

Gooddoctor23 said:

skywalker said:

Aren't they all puff pieces?

It that what u want?

I guess the question is, what do you want? Did you not like "Summer of Soul" ? "Bowie: Moonage Daydream"? "The Beatles | Get Back"? I thought theses were all cool.

-

Personally, I want something focused on his art/music more than his personal life. The personal life stuff can be a side entree...but who Prince was f'ing or fighting is kinda boring to me. Tell me about his aftershows. The Glam Slam concert from '91 was a revelation.

[Edited 2/17/25 15:19pm]

skywalker said:

Gooddoctor23 said:

It that what u want?

I guess the question is, what do you want? Did you not like "Summer of Soul" ? "Bowie: Moonage Daydream"? "The Beatles | Get Back"? I thought theses were all cool.

-

Personally, I want something focused on his art/music more than his personal life. The personal life stuff can be a side entree...but who Prince was f'ing or fighting is kinda boring to me. Tell me about his aftershows. The Glam Slam concert from '91 was a revelation.

[Edited 2/17/25 15:19pm]

All I really want is the music at this point, but it seems that even that is asking 2 much.

skywalker said:

Gooddoctor23 said:

It that what u want?

I guess the question is, what do you want? Did you not like "Summer of Soul" ? "Bowie: Moonage Daydream"? "The Beatles | Get Back"? I thought theses were all cool.

-

Personally, I want something focused on his art/music more than his personal life. The personal life stuff can be a side entree...but who Prince was f'ing or fighting is kinda boring to me. Tell me about his aftershows. The Glam Slam concert from '91 was a revelation.

[Edited 2/17/25 15:19pm]

Agreed. Although I view those amazing live recordings (the new years eve SoTT show also) as a separate thing from a crafted documentary. There's room for both maybe.

The inspirations that Prince used for his creative abilities are very important to his complete history.

[Edited 2/17/25 21:40pm]

nxx said:

skywalker said:

I guess the question is, what do you want? Did you not like "Summer of Soul" ? "Bowie: Moonage Daydream"? "The Beatles | Get Back"? I thought theses were all cool.

-

Personally, I want something focused on his art/music more than his personal life. The personal life stuff can be a side entree...but who Prince was f'ing or fighting is kinda boring to me. Tell me about his aftershows. The Glam Slam concert from '91 was a revelation.

[Edited 2/17/25 15:19pm]

Agreed. Although I view those amazing live recordings (the new years eve SoTT show also) as a separate thing from a crafted documentary. There's room for both maybe.

There is room 4 both.

nxx said:

SoulAlive said:

SoulAlive said:

nxx said:

Perhaps the bottom line with future documentarians is the eternal tension between:

(a) one side wishing to preserve the legacy and reputation of a beloved hero, star, songwriter, performer, musician, genius etc at all costs

and

(b) the other side who feel that now he's gone, it dishonours his memory by pretending that he wasn't also a real person, or suppressing details of character flaws or incidents that cast him in a less heroic light

For me personally as a fan who benefited from decades of what he gave us, Prince the artist and stage persona... by April 2016 I felt ready to hear about Prince the human being, from the people who were actually there and a part of his life. I have no problem accepting that he messed up at times, or had some unsavory aspects to his character. It doesn't make me love his work less, it's just that we've all started to shift beyond hero worship and more towards appreciating the real person behind it all, a hardworking black kid from north MPLS who gave everything he had to his art, sometimes at great personal cost in terms of his character and emotional development, his relationships etc.

All the difficult stories we've heard, be they from Mayte, Morris, Jill, Wendy, Questlove or anyone else who was there - we should respect them, appreciate them, believe them, but consider them in context as mere pieces of the overall puzzle that was Prince Rogers Nelson. In one way or another many of the folk whose paths intersected with the Prince camp over the years emerged with some form of PTSD or at stockholm syndrome, there's no hiding that. For this reason I think the original Ezra Edelman documentary needs to eventually see the light of day, and until then anything we get will be a flimsy promo piece.

This is why I asked ‘exactly what kind of documentary do they (the estate) want.Seems like they need to sit down with any potential filmmaker and make it 100 % clear what they are looking for.They need to be honest about what to include and what NOT to include.I doubt that there many legitimate filmmakers who would want to work with them,considering what happened with the two previous filmmakers.

What u will end of with........won't be worth your time or attention.

This Estate is complete trash.

nxx said:

(...)

For me personally as a fan who benefited from decades of what he gave us, Prince the artist and stage persona... by April 2016 I felt ready to hear about Prince the human being, from the people who were actually there and a part of his life. I have no problem accepting that he messed up at times, or had some unsavory aspects to his character. It doesn't make me love his work less, it's just that we've all started to shift beyond hero worship and more towards appreciating the real person behind it all, a hardworking black kid from north MPLS who gave everything he had to his art, sometimes at great personal cost in terms of his character and emotional development, his relationships etc.

All the difficult stories we've heard, be they from Mayte, Morris, Jill, Wendy, Questlove or anyone else who was there - we should respect them, appreciate them, believe them, but consider them in context as mere pieces of the overall puzzle that was Prince Rogers Nelson. In one way or another many of the folk whose paths intersected with the Prince camp over the years emerged with some form of PTSD or at stockholm syndrome, there's no hiding that. For this reason I think the original Ezra Edelman documentary needs to eventually see the light of day, and until then anything we get will be a flimsy promo piece.

Thank you.

I could not agree more.

If you want to position yourself at the top of the entertainment industry at all costs, driven by your justifiably undivided talent and skills, you know anyway that you can expect tons of attention, as well as criticism for not clarifying certain dubious issues.

His music is important, and all the clarifying information coming out now just makes the whole of his output much clearer, more layered and somehow understandable.

That's where my interest lies. It is the music it all started with, and it's abundantly clear that there is much more that can only reinforce that, at least for me. Not the reverse.

I'm pretty much certain this doc will leak, just to fuck off the estate for not apreciating all the work done during the past 5 years. At least, let's hope so.

nxx said:

skywalker said:

I guess the question is, what do you want? Did you not like "Summer of Soul" ? "Bowie: Moonage Daydream"? "The Beatles | Get Back"? I thought theses were all cool.

-

Personally, I want something focused on his art/music more than his personal life. The personal life stuff can be a side entree...but who Prince was f'ing or fighting is kinda boring to me. Tell me about his aftershows. The Glam Slam concert from '91 was a revelation.

[Edited 2/17/25 15:19pm]

Agreed. Although I view those amazing live recordings (the new years eve SoTT show also) as a separate thing from a crafted documentary. There's room for both maybe.

They could actually have made smaller much better detailed documentaries for each SDE they have released so far.

A specific focus starting from this music, plus anything interesting in his life, and applying to all official and unreleased music per project.

It's even possible to do this within (the financial constraints of) The Estate itself, by for exampe involving very young (black?) creators, for instance. As Prince often did himself.

why not get a Prince admirer to do it? Someone who will celebrate him. Duane Tudahl

Vannormal said:

There still is a lot unclear to me.

The media was/is full of what The Estate doesn't want to be in the documentary.

I mean, every article written by now, even ecxplained in full about these unwated issues, by information of those who've seen it - second hand news, not detailed (enough) for sure, but it's known by now.

So, actually, can it be that this works productive to the likes of The Estate? Unwanted?

No matter what kind of documentary they actually want - which still isn't all that clear so to say, after the use of two renown directors.

So yeah, this circus got off with Edelman, actually started with the first director Ava Duvernay.

Both were put off because of 'creative differences', let's put it like that.

It seems like these 'creative differences' stirr up enough controversy, that it start to be fishy (to me).

Am I alone thinking this? I know this is mere speculation from my part.

I'm just trying to gifigure out, why McMillan and Spicer (and PW?) don't understand that whatever doc they want, these untold stories will always and again come to surface, asking the same questions all over again; why issues need to be kept away from the public, while everyone by now, and certainly by the next new documentary will know what is left out.

Vannormal said:

There still is a lot unclear to me.

The media was/is full of what The Estate doesn't want to be in the documentary.

I mean, every article written by now, even ecxplained in full about these unwated issues, by information of those who've seen it - second hand news, not detailed (enough) for sure, but it's known by now.

So, actually, can it be that this works productive to the likes of The Estate? Unwanted?

No matter what kind of documentary they actually want - which still isn't all that clear so to say, after the use of two renown directors.

So yeah, this circus got off with Edelman, actually started with the first director Ava Duvernay.

Both were put off because of 'creative differences', let's put it like that.

It seems like these 'creative differences' stirr up enough controversy, that it start to be fishy (to me).

Am I alone thinking this? I know this is mere speculation from my part.

I'm just trying to gifigure out, why McMillan and Spicer (and PW?) don't understand that whatever doc they want, these untold stories will always and again come to surface, asking the same questions all over again; why issues need to be kept away from the public, while everyone by now, and certainly by the next new documentary will know what is left out.

It's pretty simple. Nobodys stopping Edelman or anyone making a negative doc. But to think the Estate are gonna let someone do that with their blessing AND using exclusive material owned by them is naive and dumb. Not to mention other contractual terms broken like the length etc

skywalker said:

Gooddoctor23 said:

It that what u want?

I guess the question is, what do you want? Did you not like "Summer of Soul" ? "Bowie: Moonage Daydream"? "The Beatles | Get Back"? I thought theses were all cool.

-

Personally, I want something focused on his art/music more than his personal life. The personal life stuff can be a side entree...but who Prince was f'ing or fighting is kinda boring to me. Tell me about his aftershows. The Glam Slam concert from '91 was a revelation.

[Edited 2/17/25 15:19pm]

100%

People really gotta stop with the whole "Prince would've wanted" so and so to do the documentary, GTFOH. It's ridiculous. First of all, it doesn't matter what "Prince would've wanted". It's not his project, it's not his money to be earned, and news flash, he's dead. Second, do you even remember what Prince ever said, in the rare moments he spoke publicly? The idea that Prince would've wanted a documentary about his life at all is bonkers. Prince wanted, above all else, to let his music speak for him and stand on its own. So just stop. If you only want to happen what Prince would have wanted, then stop hoping for a doc, because he'd have never wanted THAT, of all things.

RODSERLING said:

To think the estate is really going to release a doc for 2026 is completely out of this world. They can't even release the 1st avenue 1983 one, so please...

I know right ?

muleFunk said:

Vannormal said:

I can hardly believe that you write this.

So the "me-too trash can of history", was not needed then?

-

Be sure, the Estate was very clear about what they requested : money. More money. Nothing else.

-

Well, Prince once said : "all you need to know about me is in my music". There ya go.

-

People will not stay away from an eighties artist when they know the truth about his mysterious life, (which he obviously never wanted to come out). You're wrong in that. It will gain only more attention. Thats what the world is all about right now. Shockumentaires! Smear it out!

Most youngsters eat it like 5 dozens of greasy donuts, then stream the shit of his music, buy some music maybe, and go on to the next.

We the +50 people have the wallets. Not the young ones.

Let me say this... There is a movement in America to discredit every single thing that Black Americans have done. It is also a documented movement to discredit Black male entertainers. Example Prince, Tom Petty, and George Michael all died of overdoses. I know Petty died of a Fentanyl overdose. You haven't heard twice about Petty's drug addiction yet EVERY time we mention Prince, "found dead of a Fentanyl overdose". Haven't you wondered why they keep mentioning this? Edelman was making this central to everything in his life. Natalie Cole was so strung out she was selling Cat on the street. To her credit she cleaned up and became a star but you don't hear her story every time she's mentioned. I went back and read a "fluff piece" about this documentary and found how this was sensationalized. Weiss stated that Mayte met Prince when she was 16 and he was 35. When Prince was 35 it was 1993 and Mayte was 19/20. We also know that's not true because Prince recorded Symbol where she was featured in 1991 when she was 17/18. So according to Mayte her mother introduced her to him at 16 which would be 1990. This is an important fact they are trying to spin. Don't you think they would get this right? Also the age of consent in Minnesota is 16. It's also 16 in London. Wrong or right. Someone mentioned above the story of Prince is the music.Things like this happens when you start.nitpicking and people who can verify are dead.

Do not agree: "...every single thing..."

Sorry, too simply put, you must realise this yourself. Hard to generalize 'Black Americans' in this. So many black artist that are NOT put to discretion.

-

The reason why Prince's overdose is mentioned SO often, is simply because Prince was just a super firewalled persona. Period! A big fish for media and his fans.

He lived that well know, award winning 'healthy life', vegan or vegetarian, whatever... drank no alcohol, no smoking, did songs agains drugs, agains violence, against male chovinism. We know about his religious (miss)steps, his unfriendly remarks towards lesbians and gays, while in his early years he embraced them loudly!, even making it perfectly unclear what he was all about, his bizzare name change, his male/female stage and private pose, his make-up, his clothes, his own created mysteries about real sex with women (he wasn't that much of a 'big dipper' from what we heard, he moslty like to take 'baths'), his lies in the media about the death of their child, demanding his wife to lie with him, his non communicative behavior towards the press for decades, the way he treated his fans more than often in not a good way... want me to go on?

-

I agree though on the misinformation about the age numbers. But it's not the most important factor "they trying to spin"... They don't "spin", they just didn't fact check well enough. Prince himself lied about his age in his early days...

-

Prince once said that everything you need to know about him is in his music : I said that in a post somewhere here.

Prince had a lifetime to clean up his mysterious act (or not, that's the result we now have). He covered himself in religion to try this. Remember 'The Truth'? WhatA word for a guy not even telling one single bit of his truth. You reap what you saw, right?

He believed in goodness, and I believe in that too, but he was unlimited straighforward ambitious, and his work came before anything else. Even before people, or however he treated them, one can say even beofre his own life or health. Even his addiction wasn't that important, but important enough to keep it covered up so hard, it cost him his life, and an unsolved life he left behind with more questions or answers than we can find in his music. So there ya go, imo.

-

Oh, one more thing. It's great to find out he was just a human and full of flaws and mistakes. It's important (for me, and probably others too) to know that he wiped his arse, just like us, and that he has been sleeping miserably like some pathetic figure for the last period of his life, rather withdrawn and alone, in some sad little room in Paisley Park (see the investigation pix). It takes the shine of the overused word 'genius' (for me), but it still makes him the GOAT in popular music (for all of us). For that alone he is even more than the GOAT. The contrast for me to see all this and know how uncontroled and unmatchable he was on stage is truely unbelievable and fantastic!

We need that 9h doc. Unedited.

[Edited 2/27/25 11:13am]

jasopig said:

People really gotta stop with the whole "Prince would've wanted" so and so to do the documentary, GTFOH. It's ridiculous. First of all, it doesn't matter what "Prince would've wanted". It's not his project, it's not his money to be earned, and news flash, he's dead. Second, do you even remember what Prince ever said, in the rare moments he spoke publicly? The idea that Prince would've wanted a documentary about his life at all is bonkers. Prince wanted, above all else, to let his music speak for him and stand on its own. So just stop. If you only want to happen what Prince would have wanted, then stop hoping for a doc, because he'd have never wanted THAT, of all things.

Totally agree.

-

IF he wanted a doc about his ife, he would've made it even 'worse' than what the estate is looking for right now.

Prince would or, had it made, or made it himself, all sugar coated (without any of all this we know already without even seeying one glimps of that doomed 9h docu).

For sure.