paisleyparkgirl said:

olb99 said:

First of all: I find it incomprehensible when Prince fans say they wouldn't care if Prince's archive/vault was destroyed. Sorry if I sound a bit aggressive, but this is actually insane. We're talking about an irreplaceable treasure trove of musical history here. While "elite collectors" have copies of some of this material, they're far from having everything.

Many wealthy people lost their homes. I don't understand the schadenfreude going on on some forums/social networks. Yes, they have insurances or the means to rebuild. But they likely also lost valuable items like rare paintings and irreplaceable artifacts.

Yes, human lives are important, but cultural artifacts are also critically important. Bash me all you want: I'm a humanist, but I'd gladly sacrifice the lives of a few strangers to save Prince's vault. And I suspect many others would make the same choice. Am I a monster? Maybe I am. But I don't think so.

Also, imagine losing your home overnight. Your home is your safe place, your sanctuary, where you raise your kids, where you go to sleep after a long day. Whether you're rich or poor, losing it in a sudden fire is traumatic. We're not talking about someone's beach home here.

Everything can be traumatic to someone. no matter if it's someone's 'home' or 'beach home' (what's the difference?? a home is a home and it can be traumatic to lose either on e of them, rght??)
but in the end history and the preservation of it is more important and traumatic for more people when that is lost.

"I'd gladly sacrifice the lives of a few strangers to save Prince's vault"


...do you hear yourself right now?

bozojones said:

"I'd gladly sacrifice the lives of a few strangers to save Prince's vault"


...do you hear yourself right now?

Seems harsh but if Prince's vault and some random stranger were hanging from a cliff and I had to choose what i could safe I wouldn't even thnk about the stranger and let him drop without a care. History is more important.

bozojones said:

"I'd gladly sacrifice the lives of a few strangers to save Prince's vault"


...do you hear yourself right now?

Yes, and I perfectly understand that it's a very controversial position.

To be perfectly clear: I wouldn't kill anybody to save Prince's vault. I (hope I) wouldn't be able to do that. I meant that as a thought-experiment, like the trolley problem.

olb99 said:

First of all: I find it incomprehensible when Prince fans say they wouldn't care if Prince's archive/vault was destroyed. Sorry if I sound a bit aggressive, but this is actually insane. We're talking about an irreplaceable treasure trove of musical history here. While "elite collectors" have copies of some of this material, they're far from having everything.

Many wealthy people lost their homes. I don't understand the schadenfreude going on on some forums/social networks. Yes, they have insurances or the means to rebuild. But they likely also lost valuable items like rare paintings and irreplaceable artifacts.

Yes, human lives are important, but cultural artifacts are also critically important. Bash me all you want: I'm a humanist, but I'd gladly sacrifice the lives of a few strangers to save Prince's vault. And I suspect many others would make the same choice. Am I a monster? Maybe I am. But I don't think so.

You're talking about me i guess.

Please, let me repeat my words, and make it even more clear :

-

"I care for people, their lives and homes, and we all should.

The rich or poor... doens't matter. Jeez!

Fuck Prince's tapes. Even if all of 'm get lost in a fire. (Bash me.)

By the way, lots of it is already in the hands of the elite.

It will find a way to our ears, somehow."

-

For sure I have not even the slightest idea what is exactly in hands of the so called elite (who are they anyway, like RODSERLING asks). If so, they're the lucky few, so to say. People like Questlove maybe? Anyways... But, yes, I stay with the fact that some unreleased music will come to our ears anyway or another.

I'm not chaging my mind and words that any human life is far more important than whatever art, the Mona Lisa, or even Prince's entire catalogue.

But I also know exactly what you mean. It is importnat to preserve art for historical reasons. Absolutely. But this is a total other different debate, far away from the fires and human lives.

So to make things clear; to compare anyone's life with art is an irrelevant debate in the first place.

I got carried away.

I know people there who lost everything. We have no idea.

Be sure, there's also (a lot of) Prince stuff lost in private homes. Even valuable collectables.

But a human life is a human life. Aznd someone's home is his/her life.

olb99 said:

bozojones said:

"I'd gladly sacrifice the lives of a few strangers to save Prince's vault"


...do you hear yourself right now?

Yes, and I perfectly understand that it's a very controversial position.

To be perfectly clear: I wouldn't kill anybody to save Prince's vault. I (hope I) wouldn't be able to do that. I meant that as a thought-experiment, like the trolley problem.

You're doing a thought experiment about a real-life crisis that is still ongoing and has killed numerous people. It's absolutely insane to go on about how "actually Prince's vault is more important than real human lives", no matter how important Prince's music is to all of us.

bozojones said:

olb99 said:

Yes, and I perfectly understand that it's a very controversial position.

To be perfectly clear: I wouldn't kill anybody to save Prince's vault. I (hope I) wouldn't be able to do that. I meant that as a thought-experiment, like the trolley problem.

You're doing a thought experiment about a real-life crisis that is still ongoing and has killed numerous people. It's absolutely insane to go on about how "actually Prince's vault is more important than real human lives", no matter how important Prince's music is to all of us.

Yeah, a "thought experiment" sounds impersonal until it's your own house burnng down to the ground...

[Edited 1/17/25 5:06am]

I'm sorry if anyone here has been directly affected by the tragedy is LA. You have my deepest sympathy in that case.

If not, there are tragedies all the time. People die everywhere, every day. People lose their houses. People lose their pets.

My point is: people say all lives matter equally, without thinking too much about it, but this is BS. If you're in a situation where you can save your son or save a stranger, you will instantly realize that you value the life of your son way more than the life of a stranger. For many people, it will actually be exactly the same with Prince's vault. But a lot of people don't want to admit this kind of fact.

[Edited 1/17/25 6:05am]

olb99 said:

I'm sorry if anyone here has been directly affected by the tragedy is LA. You have my deepest sympathy in that case.

If not, there are tragedies all the time. People die everywhere, every day. People lose their houses. People lose their pets.

My point is: people say all lives matter equally, without thinking too much about it, but this is BS. If you're in a situation where you can save your son or save a stranger, you will instantly realize that you value the life of your son way more than the life of a stranger. For many people, it will actually be exactly the same with Prince's vault.

But a lot of people don't want to admit this kind of fact.

The comparison and pointless consideration is so far removed from all reality that it is irrelevant to discuss. Nor does the situation even arise, so... Not my style of debate, because none of us are in such a situation, and hopefully will never experience one.

Still love you just the same. I appreciate your posts about music, jazz and Eric Leeds a alot.

Vannormal said:

olb99 said:

I'm sorry if anyone here has been directly affected by the tragedy is LA. You have my deepest sympathy in that case.

If not, there are tragedies all the time. People die everywhere, every day. People lose their houses. People lose their pets.

My point is: people say all lives matter equally, without thinking too much about it, but this is BS. If you're in a situation where you can save your son or save a stranger, you will instantly realize that you value the life of your son way more than the life of a stranger. For many people, it will actually be exactly the same with Prince's vault.

But a lot of people don't want to admit this kind of fact.

The comparison and pointless consideration is so far removed from all reality that it is irrelevant to discuss. Nor does the situation even arise, so... Not my style of debate, because none of us are in such a situation, and hopefully will never experience one.

Still love you just the same. I appreciate your posts about music, jazz and Eric Leeds a alot.

I've experienced my first home burning down and losing my dog when I was 23 years old because of a stupid neighbour with a gas leak he didn't want to fix or something.
Sure I was sad but everything is replaceable in the end and I'm not that materialistic to really care for replaceable 'stuff'. I still stand by my opinion that history is way more important than someones life or there replaceable 'stuff'. I understand people not caring for history but without it people won't grow (just look around at all these dumb people walking around these days denyoing or questioning the holocaust or even if Hitler existed for example because they won't look into history or because it's too hard to find historical data between all there mindnumbing social media sites)
I also care for people but in the end without history they won''t last that long

Vannormal said:

Not my style of debate, because none of us are in such a situation, and hopefully will never experience one.

Fair enough. I still think it's possible to discuss things that don't involve us directly. I can think that Putin is a horrible human being without being directly impacted by the war in Ukraine. I'm probably awkward in the way I discuss this (English not being my native language, obviously). My goal, I guess, was to start a discussion about the value of beings and things. I tried to have a clear, but nuanced position, but I probably failed.

I guess I was mainly triggered by those comments:

"Let it burn, we'll never see it released anyway"
"if it did burn I wouldn't really care"
"Fuck Prince's tapes"

The first one was irony, maybe, I don't know.

Anyway, David Lynch died. I'm sad.

[Edited 1/17/25 10:35am]

Agree. I feel sad too.

Been watching Lynch interviews non stop.

There a great one with Cher.

The loss of David Lynch is unbelievably sad (and unexpeted news to me).

I wonder if he ever said anything, or was interested in who or what Prince was.

For sure, Prince was so far removed from Lynch's world of interest. I can hardly imagine there was any kind of interest. I ould be wrong though... Did they ever meet?

Lynch, the greatest, the die hard smoker, big music lover, I am an absolutely huge fan.

Lynch was able to show and understand the dark side of everything, something Prince always avoided, and covered up imho (or romanticised it through religion as a solution).

-

RIP great mysterious mind.

olb99 said:

First of all: I find it incomprehensible when Prince fans say they wouldn't care if Prince's archive/vault was destroyed. Sorry if I sound a bit aggressive, but this is actually insane. We're talking about an irreplaceable treasure trove of musical history here. While "elite collectors" have copies of some of this material, they're far from having everything.

Many wealthy people lost their homes. I don't understand the schadenfreude going on on some forums/social networks. Yes, they have insurances or the means to rebuild. But they likely also lost valuable items like rare paintings and irreplaceable artifacts.

Yes, human lives are important, but cultural artifacts are also critically important. Bash me all you want: I'm a humanist, but I'd gladly sacrifice the lives of a few strangers to save Prince's vault. And I suspect many others would make the same choice. Am I a monster? Maybe I am. But I don't think so.

What's actually even more nonsensical is that people write as if they were trading the vault for lives.

- OMG The vault!!

- Who cares, people's lives, etc.

- Oh yeah, you right.

As if saying "people's lives is more important" was going to save lives by sacrificing the vault to the Fire God.

Voodoo talk...

Vannormal said:

Agree. I feel sad too.

Been watching Lynch interviews non stop.

There a great one with Cher.

The loss of David Lynch is unbelievably sad (and unexpeted news to me).

I wonder if he ever said anything, or was interested in who or what Prince was.

For sure, Prince was so far removed from Lynch's world of interest. I can hardly imagine there was any kind of interest. I ould be wrong though... Did they ever meet?

Lynch, the greatest, the die hard smoker, big music lover, I am an absolutely huge fan.

Lynch was able to show and understand the dark side of everything, something Prince always avoided, and covered up imho (or romanticised it through religion as a solution).

-

RIP great mysterious mind.

According to NS, Prince was a fan and even contacted Lynch to work with him in the early 90s. Lynch wisely declined.

olb99 said:

Vannormal said:

Agree. I feel sad too.

Been watching Lynch interviews non stop.

There a great one with Cher.

The loss of David Lynch is unbelievably sad (and unexpeted news to me).

I wonder if he ever said anything, or was interested in who or what Prince was.

For sure, Prince was so far removed from Lynch's world of interest. I can hardly imagine there was any kind of interest. I ould be wrong though... Did they ever meet?

Lynch, the greatest, the die hard smoker, big music lover, I am an absolutely huge fan.

Lynch was able to show and understand the dark side of everything, something Prince always avoided, and covered up imho (or romanticised it through religion as a solution).

-

RIP great mysterious mind.

According to NS, Prince was a fan and even contacted Lynch to work with him in the early 90s. Lynch wisely declined.

I think I read somewhere that Prince was fascinated with Eraserhead for a while in the 80s.

If true, that's awfully ironic given the tragic fate of his own child over a decade later

^ And yeah, Lynch's passing was very sad news

He truly was one of the great, and the work he left behind is truly wonderful