paisleyparkgirl said:

The Jill Jones story is what ruined the doc.

OH?
So you have seen the full nine hour film???

paisleyparkgirl said:

v10letblues said:

While I want to see the Netfix doc as the director inteneded, on bit from the director himself has gave me mixed feelings about it.He has mentioned that he didn't quite know where to take the narrative, which is hard to believe anyone having trouble with that, and that he settled on theJills jones, Wendy Lisa arch as the hook becasue of how compelling it was for the narrative. Now, I mean I want to see all that, but not as a gimmick or arch or becasue it helped him settle on something compelling for him to drive a narrative. But none of us have seen it and it is quite long so who knows, but i hope he didn't use her as a lazy part of the narration becasue he was stuck.

[Edited 1/8/25 9:47am]

Wendy and Lisa ? I don't think they said anything they hadn't seen before. The Jill Jones story is what ruined the doc.

This was acording to a review of the doc from a couple of folks who were reviewing it. They mentioin that the director couldnt find a center the documentary ultil he spoke to Wendy, Lisa and Jill. That he would build the heart of it against their compelling stories of working with Prince. It's supposed to be a tragic telling of a lonely man who cared about nothing but his craft. Questlove himself said after watching it he cried for days and and needed help from his psychiatrist and did not want to end up like Prince.

Everyone who has seen it has praised it, and the director is known for quality work, so it is what it is and I cannot wait to see it myself. We know no one is perfect and if we want truth and the reality of it, then we should expect and not be surprised to see it.

[Edited 1/8/25 21:17pm]

nayroo2002 said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

The Jill Jones story is what ruined the doc.

OH?
So you have seen the full nine hour film???

If a film has been shelved from release it can viably be considered "ruined" without that being a criticism or castigation on the quality of the content itself.

Since we're asking questions,

How is there even fervent interest in this from the types here in the first place?

Those teenyboppers on reddit and Twitter, them I get, this is their first rodeo, they're full of purple piss and raspberry vinegar, pinining on deluded hopes that a prominent link "trending" on the main page of the Netflix app is going to give them validation from their classrooms and parent/peer groups of MJ stans.

But you people should be a little more seasoned.

Like I mean there's a niche for this, sure, but as far Prince fandom pecking order priorities goes I put lame Netflix doc a couple notches below the Kim Berry Hairstylist book. It's probably... equivalent to the Toure book, at best. Worth months over discussing over potential SDE (or better yet, a Dylan-esque 'Bootleg Series')? uh, no.

And my fav of the outside entity stuff was 'Possessed: The Rise & Fall of Prince', so don't even hit me with this "OH WE ALL HAVE FLAWS," that has nothing to do with anything.

[Edited 1/8/25 23:22pm]

paisleyparkgirl said:

v10letblues said:

While I want to see the Netfix doc as the director inteneded, on bit from the director himself has gave me mixed feelings about it.He has mentioned that he didn't quite know where to take the narrative, which is hard to believe anyone having trouble with that, and that he settled on theJills jones, Wendy Lisa arch as the hook becasue of how compelling it was for the narrative. Now, I mean I want to see all that, but not as a gimmick or arch or becasue it helped him settle on something compelling for him to drive a narrative. But none of us have seen it and it is quite long so who knows, but i hope he didn't use her as a lazy part of the narration becasue he was stuck.

[Edited 1/8/25 9:47am]

Wendy and Lisa ? I don't think they said anything they hadn't seen before. The Jill Jones story is what ruined the doc.

.
That can't be true. Cutting one interview would've been an easily acceptable compromise for both parties, so there must be a lot more or totally different issues between them.

WhisperingDandelions said:

v10letblues said:

It's supposed to be a tragic telling of a lonely man who cared about nothing but his craft.

You know, this kind of reflects my gut feeling about Prince after he died. But it's never surfaced until I read what you wrote there...

As much as we all loved him / his music / or both ... (my wife informed me that I was depressed for quite some time after he passed)... there was something itching in my mind

- He died all alone in Paisley Park, to be discovered the following day by his staff.

- There are those pictures of his lonely bedroom with pills and makeup
- Two failed marriages, no children
- Yet he couldn't stop touring, and he must have loved the adulation and experience from the shows he did

If anything, he must have loved his audiences, and his audiences loved him.- But an audience is an amorphous conglomeration of people, not a single person, to connect to...

It's hard to say this.... as much as I idolised Prince for all these years....before and after his death.... There was something sad and lonely about him at the end.

[Edited 1/9/25 10:37am]

Kares said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

Wendy and Lisa ? I don't think they said anything they hadn't seen before. The Jill Jones story is what ruined the doc.

.
That can't be true. Cutting one interview would've been an easily acceptable compromise for both parties, so there must be a lot more or totally different issues between them.

If a major part of the documentary was built around the idea/narrative of a "musical genius but lonely and imperfect human being", I guess the Jill Jones part was not the only thing that would need to be removed.

[Edited 1/9/25 11:37am]

It's always easier to long for what we don't have (anymore) than appreciate what we have. Or something to that effect. The Stoics had this all figured out 2300 years ago.

[Edited 1/9/25 13:25pm]

v10letblues said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

Wendy and Lisa ? I don't think they said anything they hadn't seen before. The Jill Jones story is what ruined the doc.

This was acording to a review of the doc from a couple of folks who were reviewing it. They mentioin that the director couldnt find a center the documentary ultil he spoke to Wendy, Lisa and Jill. That he would build the heart of it against their compelling stories of working with Prince. It's supposed to be a tragic telling of a lonely man who cared about nothing but his craft. Questlove himself said after watching it he cried for days and and needed help from his psychiatrist and did not want to end up like Prince.

Everyone who has seen it has praised it, and the director is known for quality work, so it is what it is and I cannot wait to see it myself. We know no one is perfect and if we want truth and the reality of it, then we should expect and not be surprised to see it.

[Edited 1/8/25 21:17pm]

I think a lot of fans don't want Prince to be seen as some sort of tragic figure but hey, considering his early circumstances and how he passed, it's inevitable. It's heartbreaking but you can't hide some things.

WhisperingDandelions said:

nayroo2002 said:

OH?
So you have seen the full nine hour film???

If a film has been shelved from release it can viably be considered "ruined" without that being a criticism or castigation on the quality of the content itself.

Since we're asking questions,

How is there even fervent interest in this from the types here in the first place?

Those teenyboppers on reddit and Twitter, them I get, this is their first rodeo, they're full of purple piss and raspberry vinegar, pinining on deluded hopes that a prominent link "trending" on the main page of the Netflix app is going to give them validation from their classrooms and parent/peer groups of MJ stans.

But you people should be a little more seasoned.

Like I mean there's a niche for this, sure, but as far Prince fandom pecking order priorities goes I put lame Netflix doc a couple notches below the Kim Berry Hairstylist book. It's probably... equivalent to the Toure book, at best. Worth months over discussing over potential SDE (or better yet, a Dylan-esque 'Bootleg Series')? uh, no.

And my fav of the outside entity stuff was 'Possessed: The Rise & Fall of Prince', so don't even hit me with this "OH WE ALL HAVE FLAWS," that has nothing to do with anything.

[Edited 1/8/25 23:22pm]

I belong to neither group (neither a teenybopper nor seasoned) I'm in the middle but as far as the interest goes, I believed the "seasoned" ones are annoyed that this Netflix deal is holding up things deemed important to the seasoned fandom like future SDE's...you know...the long awaited PARADE SUPERDELUXE.

paisleyparkgirl said:

v10letblues said:

This was acording to a review of the doc from a couple of folks who were reviewing it. They mentioin that the director couldnt find a center the documentary ultil he spoke to Wendy, Lisa and Jill. That he would build the heart of it against their compelling stories of working with Prince. It's supposed to be a tragic telling of a lonely man who cared about nothing but his craft. Questlove himself said after watching it he cried for days and and needed help from his psychiatrist and did not want to end up like Prince.

Everyone who has seen it has praised it, and the director is known for quality work, so it is what it is and I cannot wait to see it myself. We know no one is perfect and if we want truth and the reality of it, then we should expect and not be surprised to see it.

[Edited 1/8/25 21:17pm]

I think a lot of fans don't want Prince to be seen as some sort of tragic figure but hey, considering his early circumstances and how he passed, it's inevitable. It's heartbreaking but you can't hide some things.

Yep, the reviews I read come to the same conclusion.

[Edited 1/9/25 16:00pm]

I tink another point of contention general audiences may have for the doc may be about Prince "grooming" young underage girls like Mayte and Anna Fantastic. Though supposedly keeping things non sexual until they turned to legal age when he was already in his 30's. The doc does not shy away from pointing these things out.

v10letblues said:

I tink another point of contention general audiences may have for the doc may be about Prince "grooming" young underage girls like Mayte and Anna Fantastic. Though supposedly keeping things non sexual until they turned to legal age when he was already in his 30's. The doc does not shy away from pointing these things out.

Yeah, we had a whole thread about this, which was suspended 2 months ago.

There are things you are not supposed to talk about...

olb99 said:

v10letblues said:

I tink another point of contention general audiences may have for the doc may be about Prince "grooming" young underage girls like Mayte and Anna Fantastic. Though supposedly keeping things non sexual until they turned to legal age when he was already in his 30's. The doc does not shy away from pointing these things out.

Yeah, we had a whole thread about this, which was suspended 2 months ago.

There are things you are not supposed to talk about...

Well yeah. What ruined this fansite and drove everyone away was the terrible egocentric moderation by people who have no bussiness being tasked with moderation..

[Edited 1/9/25 16:55pm]

v10letblues said:

I tink another point of contention general audiences may have for the doc may be about Prince "grooming" young underage girls like Mayte and Anna Fantastic. Though supposedly keeping things non sexual until they turned to legal age when he was already in his 30's. The doc does not shy away from pointing these things out.

Bingo. Trying 2 hide from the truth rarely works.

v10letblues said:

the terrible egocentric moderation by people who have no bussiness being tasked with moderation..

[Edited 1/9/25 16:55pm]

BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!

Back on topic:
The doc should have started with "The Truth" in the soundtrack...

nayroo2002 said:

v10letblues said:

the terrible egocentric moderation by people who have no bussiness being tasked with moderation..

[Edited 1/9/25 16:55pm]

BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!

Back on topic:
The doc should have started with "The Truth" in the soundtrack...

.. but "the truth" is subjective.Hopefully this is the start that opens the door for more detailed discussions of the talent and life of Prince. Hopefully this gets a lot of things out of the way so we may get a better, more well rounder perspective. No doc is going to be "definitive" or even should. The Estate and bootlickers have nothing to worry about. There will be more, this is only the begining.

WhisperingDandelions said:

mclihah2 said:

- Yet he couldn't stop touring

.

This nonsense again. Go to Princevault and look up his tours and live performances. There are long stretches of him doing none.

.

- The Parade tour was a dozen shows in Europe and a handful in Japan and a dozen shows in the USA.

.

- The Purple Rain tour had barely started and he was already sick of it.

.

- His only tour in 2012 consisted of half a dozen concerts.

.

- His only tour in 2014 consisted of a dozen concerts.

.

- He didn't tour in 2015.

.

- His 2003 "world tour" consists of 8 (EIGHT) concerts, and that's the only tour he did that year.

.

- No tour in 2005. Or in 2008. Or in 2009.

.

I didn't even go through all the decades and already I found all these examples.

.

For a comparison: Bob Dylan has done more than 70 concerts per year since 1988 (except for 2020 and 2021, but that's when there was a worldwide virus): https://www.setlist.fm/st...6adb8.html .

WhisperingDandelions said:

this is their first rodeo, they're full of purple piss and raspberry vinegar

Hee, love it

bizzie said:

bizzie said:

Tours: https://princevault.com/i...ur_History

All concerts: https://princevault.com/index.php?title=All_Concerts

That's 2032 performances over the course of 38 years, so 53 performances a year on average, with "only":

- 10 performances in 1979

- 13 performances in 1989

- 15 performances in 1991

- 25 performances in 1996

- 17 performances in 2003

- 16 performances in 2005

- 18 performances in 2008

- 26 performances in 2009

- 21 performances in 2012

Granted, this includes all performances, including one-off performances, but I'm not sure that's relevant. When mclihah2 wrote "Yet he couldn't stop touring, and he must have loved the adulation and experience from the shows he did", I think the meaning was "Yet he couldn't stop playing live."

So, yeah, that's pretty good, if you ask me, but I'm glad he wasn't "touring all the time". I like Prince, the studio musician.

[Edited 1/11/25 8:56am]

bizzie said:

mclihah2 said:

- Yet he couldn't stop touring

.

This nonsense again. Go to Princevault and look up his tours and live performances. There are long stretches of him doing none.

......

.

For a comparison: Bob Dylan has done more than 70 concerts per year since 1988 (except for 2020 and 2021, but that's when there was a worldwide virus): https://www.setlist.fm/st...6adb8.html .

It's more the essence of what he was doing - I was there in 2014 for the Manchester Hit n Run show - These UK shows were last minute and intense - You could tell that Prince was connected to his audience... it really meant something to him.

After he passed, I've really absorbed a lot of his shows - Particularly the aftershows... that he celarly didn't do for the paycheck.... and it's these shows that I really am referring to....

I'm thinking about the Paisley Park Celebrations - For example the 2002 one - The love and energy shows

Again, super successful amazing musician who was able to connect with thousands of people in his show, and use them as an extension of his show..

But the more I think about it, the more it feels hollow


I always, personally, feel sad that his time with Mayte didn't last....... In a parallel universe, who knows what would have happened?

skywalker said:

Gooddoctor23 said:

olb99 said: