sag10 said:

not Mayte!!!

Thanks to Mani & Larry Prince lost his ever mind.

NuPwrSoul said:

Thank you NuPwrSoul. I totally feel the same as you...

Mellow1, you said it right.

When you see Larry on stage with Prince and Larry's making those stupid ugly faces at the crowd ,who do you think is the smart one? It's a shame Larry ever came into Prince's life.

Prince is in a religion that claims to be the only chanel to God. How can he believe this? I wonder if Mani believes this? This religion will keep Prince from ever divorcing her and it will keep him out of other people's bed.

She's smart.

richb8 Well if you had faith in your god yeah maybe faith alone is doing something...
I agree on something like this on a certain level


richb8 yeah who cares that says nothing about a person's faith, they just crazy right?
Did I criticize faith? It is something beautiful and mysterious


richb8
Instead of walking around with superficial knowlegde and assumptions about their organizations if you really want accurate knowledge of what they believe...stop slamming the door in thier face when they come to your door or pretending that ur not home...people pretend that they're seeking out the truth when in actuallity they run from it...


Here’s my modest experience: at the early 80’s I was a child and I remember some jw coming to my parents door, they mentioned the invasion of Afghanistan by the USSR and that was a sign of the next WW3, the end of time is coming, Armageddon etc

In 1986 I think another ( well I hope for them hehe) duet came, they talked to my mum about Chernobyl
and that was a sign that the end of time is coming soon, Armageddon etc

At the late 2001 some jw came to my door I listened and answered to them politely until the moment they mentioned 9/11 and that was predicted in the bible, that was a sign of the next WW3, the end of time is coming, Armageddon etc, I was less polite then and they went before I kick their ass

And about the Kissinger citation, life is certainly less tragic in a peaceful democratic country in which you might have the opportunity to enjoy life and do what you want like preaching for exemple
-
[This message was edited Sat May 3 0:55:52 PDT 2003 by jn2]

jn2 said:

I feel you, whenever i've dealt with them, noones ever come to me with the WW3 rap, could be their own perspective on things, though they do believe that this sytem will come to an end eventually...the ones i've dealt with don't try and speculate, though history does show they did predict 1914 as the end but they got psyched, and from what i know they do point to the signs of the times but it's all subjective right ones man's interpetation may be another's lie

hey i'm in no way saying i'm a witness just happen to be familar with their teachings as iam with several other religons.

truth is in the truth u seek...

Anji said:

When he mentioned Jesus you found it curious?

Supernova said:

No, the 'kooky' references to me were sprinkled all over the album. Sayings akin to 'glam slam' on Lovesexy. I liked the new language on The Rainbow Children because it took me time to understand what he was talking about and that they can be interpreted on a number of levels.

lovebird said:

Sorry but that made me chuckle.

Anji said:

But my point is, he says "save me Jesus" on Lovesexy. There isn't really room to guess at any other religion aside from Christianity when that's the case. Is there anything as universally specific as that on TRC when it comes to what religion he's talking about?
[This message was edited Sat May 3 11:24:05 PDT 2003 by Supernova]

All this talk about TRC and yet: Supernova, Anji, NPS, Babyclaps, somebody please...(see below)


***stymie's signature***
Could someone please, please, please go to P&R to answer my questions about TRC?

Supernova said:

How do you interpret, 'Accurate knowledge of Christ and the Father, will bring the Everlasting Now'?

Anji, add to your last post the reference to the New Translation on The Rainbow Children.

stymie said:

Anji said:

Yeah, I see your point. But then there is also "The New Translation"...and other things he brings up that he's never brought up before on the album. Outside of Jehova Witnesses who would know exactly what he was talking about had it not been for the fact that he hangs out with Larry Graham, attends Witness meetings, maybe brought it up at PP events, etc.?

Supernova said:

Put it this way, I wouldn't have known anything was different from a religious point of view. I would have just treated the lyrics as I did with Lovesexy. Glam slam, thank you ma'am. That said, I do think Prince wants to communicate and make clear the differences in how he is thinking about things now (race, religion, his life basically). Stating that The Rainbow Children was his new controversial offering was not driven from a sales point of view. The only problem is that whenever Prince wants to make things clear (and this is a new concept for him, I think), things get hazy initially as people begin to understand what it was that Prince brought to the table back then, to what it is Prince is offering right now. People are here for all kinds of reasons. For me, whilst I'd like to think it's really always just been about the music, I have to admit the controversy does make it that much more interesting.



.
[This message was edited Sat May 3 14:51:29 PDT 2003 by Anji]

Anji said:

Exactly! That's the point I'm trying to make.


As do I.


Prince without controversy would be very atypical.

stymie said:

I'll get over there later on this evening to see what ya got.

Supernova said:

Thanks Supernova!

Chronological Speculation: The Truth???

1st century Jewish rabbis arbitrarily apply the "year for a day" formula to various time periods in the Bible.

9th century Jewish rabbis make calculations with the time periods 1290, 1335, 2300 days found in the book
of Daniel, seeking to know the time for the appearance of the Messiah.

12th century- a Catholic abbot begins to make calculations and predictions based on the days in Daniel and
the 1260 days in the book of Revelation. All kinds of dates were arrived at by various interpreters.
Predictions included the years 1260, 1360, and various dates in the 16th century. Changes and new
interpretations were made year after year, century after century, as NONE of the predictions came to
pass.

1796 in a London Magazine, George Bell predicts the fall of the Antichrist(the Pope) in 1797 or 1813. This
prediction was made during the French Revolution; the Pope was taken captive by French troops and forced
to exile. Many saw this as a fulfillment of Bible prophecy and 1798 was accepted as the end of prophetic
1260 days. Out of this, the view that 1799 marked the beginning of the "last days" developed.

Early 1800's John Aquila Brown publishes explanation of Daniel's prophecies, showing the end as 1844.
This view is picked up by William Miller, pioneer of Second Advent Movement-7th Day Adventists.

1823 John A. Brown predicts the full glory of the kingdom of Israel will be perfected in 1917. It does not come to
pass.

1844 Failure of expectations of Christ's return among Adventists. A split-up of various Adventist groups
results in new date setting.

1874 A new date predicted and emphasized by Adventist N.H. Barbour, marking the end of 6000 years of human
history and Christ returning does not come to pass.
When it doesn't come to pass, Adventist, B.W. Keith, a contributor to Barbour's magazine,
notices that a translation of the New Testament called the Emphatic Diaglott uses the word "presence"
in place of "coming" in texts relating to Christ's return. Keith says Christ did return in 1874 but invisibly
and that he would carry on a judging work.

I would like to interject here that Jesus himself warned us that false Christs and false prophets would
arise and speak of "secret" returns. Adventists and later Jehovah's Witnesses propagated these
alleged "invisible" returns of Christ as "the truth", "accurate knowledge", "secret
truths" that only THEY possess and teach.

Jesus said: So, if they say to you, Here he is in the desert, do not go out to see, or Here he is in some secret place,
do not believe it. For just as the lightning starts in the east and flashes clear to the west, so the coming of the Son of
Man will be. Matthew 24:26-28 Williams Translation.

Jehovah's Witnesses have made much out the word, "presence" or parousia(Greek) but conveniently ignored
other Greek terms describing Christ's return, such as apocalypse and epiphany.

1878 One of the split off groups of Adventism surrounding N. H. Barbour of Rochester, N.Y.
who studied J. A. Brown's works. He publishes in the Herald of the Morning in July of 1878, a year before the
first issue of the Watchtower Magazine, that the Times of Gentiles end in 1914. Charles T. Russell was assistant
editor of this magazine. Barbour changes the starting point for Daniel's "day for a year" formula prophecies from 604
B.C.E. to 606 B.C.E. and ends up with the ending date of 1914. Remember Barbour already had a failed
1874 prediction.

The "invisible presence" concept allowed 7th day Adventists associated with Barbour to proclaim that they
had the right date(1874) but expected the wrong thing on that date. This view was embraced by Charles T.
Russell.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe and teach that Christ's invisible presence began in 1914. For nearly 15 years
the Watchtower however had taught that the invisible presence began in 1874. Even as late as 1929 the Society
taught it. Witnesses today believe that Christ officially began his Kingdom rule in 1914. The Watchtower taught
for decades that this took place in 1878. They believe that the "last days" and the "time of the end" also began
in 1914. For half a century the Watchtower magazine taught that the "last days" began in 1799(as George Bell
taught).
Witnesses believe the the resurrection of anointed Christians who died from Christ's time forward began to take
place in 1918. For more than forty years the Watchtower taught that it began in 1881.
Witnesses teach that after 1914 and from 1919 onward the great harvest work was under way.
However the Watchtower from the beginning taught instead that the harvest would run from 1874 to 1914
and that by 1914 the destruction of all human institutions of the world would take place.
The Watchtower says the fall of Babylon the Great(the one world empire of false religion) took place in 1919. For
four decades however, the Watchtower said it took place in 1878, with Babylon's complete destruction due in
1914 or 1918.

1920 A new date emphasized among Jehovah's Witnesses by Judge Rutheford...the Millions Campaign. That
date emphasized was 1925. What was predicited? a restoration of all things, the resurrection of Abraham, Isaac,
and Jacob, a new order on earth, Messiah's kingdom established, the great jubilee cycle to begin, etc.
Did it happen? NO!

1975 fiasco, which is denied, re-intrepreted, and the blame is laid squarely on over-zealous followers, but the
prophetic implications were strong and emphasized in the literature of the Society.

Why all the changes to their major prophetic teachings? Because just as with all those who came before them and
influenced them, NONE of their false predictions came to pass. Most Witnesses do not have access to older issues
of the Watchtower and the organization's current publications either ignore or present only a partial, altered view, of their
past teachings.
It's time for Jehovah's Witnesses to put the organization to the Scriptural test concerning what constitutes a false prophet.

Deuteronomy 18:20: But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak,
or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
Deuteronomy 18:22: When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is
the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

And if you cannot wholey trust this organization to lead you when it comes to eschatology, how can you be sure it
has told you "the truth" about any other major Biblical doctrine? Like the nature of God, the person and work of Jesus Christ, the personality of the Holy Spirit, salvation, resurrection, and eternal judgment

Only Satan can save his soul.

mistermcgee said:

Interesting but this thread was not intended to be about how truthful the creation of the JW's belief system was/is.

And I; like; you; much; too. (for Sensual Melody)

OK, so does that mean he will start making good soulful music again, one of these days? I'm waiting in anticipation...

peterlucas said:

Listen to ONA Live.

Anji said:

I think you missed his point. He said "GOOD soulful music."

okaypimpn said:

If you don't think it's good, you're missing the point.

okaypimpn said:

2 quote lleena:

:sizzle:

Anji said:

We're all entitled to our opinions...you like the CD, I personally use it as a coaster.

okaypimpn said:

most expensive dust collecter i ever bought