do you suppose if the fans/consumers are all critical and continue to question his current philosophical path, he'll get defensive, take offense and deem us all evil creatures of satan?
i dunno. perhaps we all oughta go spend some time on NPGMC and learn us some manners

XxAxX said:

oh dearie me, u mean i might be da debble???

nah, i'd end up fallin asleep durin class and cheatin on whatever tests they give...

Anji said:

Change is uncomfortable for many people. I think in some respects that's normal. I also believe had it not been for the fact that Prince publicly hobknobs with Jehova Witnesses, most (meaning most non-Jehova Witnesses) probably wouldn't even know what he was talking about when it came to some of his new lyrical themes. Of course some will deny that, but a lot of people's reactions were seemingly set in stone once they knew Prince's JW affiliations - prior to his last few releases.

¥
[This message was edited Thu May 1 18:41:27 PDT 2003 by Supernova]

zobilamouche said:

Umm he's been referencing Jesus Christ as Lord since Controversy. That is a very PARTICULAR religion.

It trips me how people will complain about how exclusivist the Jehovah's Witnesses may be, but still subscribe to the false notion that everyone is a Christian and therefore references to Christianity are universal.

Step out yo box for a sec and realize that for non-Christians, it doesn't matter if it was the Christ or the Cross, Jesus or Jehovah, they were still able see past the labels and appreciate the music and spirit for what they were.

What I think is the REAL distinction is private vs. public religion:

In the past Prince's references to Christianity seemed to always be a personal private experience as in "I realize you are the master plan" etc. He never seemed to be exhorting his audience to believe as he did.

Now it seems as though he does want his audience to share in his religious/spiritual journey. "If you wanna be with me, aint no room to disagree..." etc. And I believe that is the turn off.

The JWs strikes me as a very active missionary type movement that considers "witnessing" or propagating the faith to be a necessary element of faith, so I don't know if he can be a JW any other way.

Still at the TRC listening sessions when things got most heated, he would say, "This is my personal experience that I wanted to share. What works for you works for you, and what works for me works for me."

I think people were more comfortable with a Prince that bared his own soul, rather than a Prince that holds up mirrors to his audience's soul.

NuPwrSoul said:

But NPS, that line is about how he wants his significant other to share the same spiritual values. Not about people in general. That's normal for everyone really.

Supernova said:

I can accept that interpretation.

He has however in recent performances suggested that if people do not believe as he does that "I don't know what to say about you."

NuPwrSoul said:

Yeah, I heard about that. Unfortunately I experience those type of people all the time, some are religious, and some are not. I don't doubt he said it, but the lyrics in "1+1+1 is 3" seem to be more specific.

NuPwrSoul said:

I agree completely. Way to break it down NuPwr.

Do you think his views on race are similar? He used to be more inclusive.

BTW, I don't subscribe to the theory that just cuz one is pro-black, that they are necessarily anti-white or anti-whatever. I think it's great that Prince is more aware of himself...

divo02 said:

I think Prince has always signified on his racial identity culturally; now that cultural consciousness is finding more politicized expression.

Look! PRINCE, in my opinion, HAS never LOST his SOUL, His FUNK, his EDGE or anything 4 that matter.

He is always evolving and that's why I dig the guy.

Keep on keepin' on PRINCE! I look forward to the next 10 years of MUSICAL SURPRISE...

"Don't Let NOBODY bring U down, Acurate knowledge of CHRIST and the FATHER will bring the EVERLASTING NOW..."

Jonathan said:

Just curious, Johnathan, what other music do you listen to?

zobilamouche said:

I could not have said it better!

XxAxX said:[quote]you forgot tina graham, and her interesting contributions to the shows. [/quote
I want to take that towel that she fans Larry with and wrap it around her head and drag her off the stage

zobilamouche said:

You know what, no one is really in any place to tell someone else how to deal with their grief. What works for one person may not work for another.

For the sake of God, the man lost a child. Now you can point to hundreds of people who got over it and say why can't you be like that? But at the end of the day everyone is an individual and what affects them affects them individually so please dont come on here with that kind of arrogant self righteous bullshit telling someone how to deal with their fucking grief!

Shit be pissin me off sometimes with how fucking selfish and disregarding ppl can be. People take shit too lightly, just because its Prince. Yall take his humanity for granted. On the one hand folks criticise him for not acting like everyone else, for living aloof and a rock star life, and when he DOES act human it aint human enough for you. You know what FUCK YOU!

I'm sorry. I usually don't curse. And I would edit this. But what you're doing amounts to trivializing the death of his child. Let me tell you something, if I lost a child, I dont give a flying FUCK what tom dick or harry did to cope or mary ann or sue did to cope because you know what, it was MY child. Grief is highly personal and individual so don't you try to belittle it.

well they said Jesus was crazy also look what they did to him.

I think everyone hates on prince's releationship with the JW's because they want an excuse for the poor quality of his records...when he was a 7th day no one gave a damn about what organization he was with.. what about the weak material he put out b4 he became a witness? you hear of a lot of artist being buddist or in the church of scientology no one associates that with the quality of their work good or bad. but now because he's associated with the witnesses and stopped cussing and now doesn't belive in premartital sex he's now doomed to make records we dont like?

you know we should be happy he still attempting to make records at this point how many artist outlive 3 records...and shit no ones mad at james brown for being a baptist and what was the last record u bought from him and he's the god father.

also if anything you think this would raise are curiousity about the witnesses cuz if his royal baddness is digging on it they must be talking about somethin ...has anyone ever heard what they really are talkin a bout ?

no i'm not a part of his cult
[This message was edited Thu May 1 23:29:01 PDT 2003 by richb8]

NuPwrSoul said:

NuPwrSoul

not only that he lost his Parents and still went on with his tour and the celebration which really love him even more...I lost my Granfather and it took years to deal with I agree with Nupwrsoul 100% folks if ya don't have a heart u better get one

NuPwrSoul said:

Co-sign, 2 times!!!

That prince had to go through some pretty rough periods is not something I contest; but the JW cult is not as kosher and clear then other religions (all facts, rules etc are to be found on other treads on the forum); and he is evolving into a promotor of this. THAT is my problem.

The arguments are turned arounds here! His spokesmanship for a cult bothers me: and his past problems are not an excuse.

If he turned to islam; jewism ,budhism etc -it would not bother me.

My friend lost all 35 familymembers in Ruanda; from the smallest infant to the grandparents. The difference is that she still has to go on living for her husband and kids; and prince has the "luxury" of being able to take his time to digest his problems. What does he do? Joins a cult. Great.

I was'nt to pleased about his christian references before either but at least they were referring to a religion that isn't constructed around an oppressive society system; and all the abuses that come with that.

I do feel sorry for him; nobody should be in the place that they have to bury their own child. I only have a stphhild and two other kids I watch over; and I fear the day that something would happen to any of those.

Indeed, not me, not anyone else here should tell prince what to do; and I don't think for a sec he would accept it. But this is a discussion forum; so discussing is what we do.

NuPwrSoul said:

***

Ditto.

Well said. The voice of reason and decency speaks again.

zobilamouche said:[quote]That prince had to go through some pretty rough periods is not something I contest; but the JW cult is not as kosher and clear then other religions (all facts, rules etc are to be found on other treads on the forum); and he is evolving into a promotor of this. THAT is my problem.

The arguments are turned arounds here! His spokesmanship for a cult bothers me: and his past problems are not an excuse.

Jehovah's Witnesses are not a cult..

If he turned to islam; jewism ,budhism etc -it would not bother me.You have just revealed your particular prejudice. If Jehovah's Witnesses are a 'cult' so are all the religions you've mentioned above.

I'm not interested in what you claim the french Government thinks. Most of these Governments act the same way toward any alternative religion, not just Jehovah's Witnesses.

It is religious intolerance, it is nothing to be celebrated.

Anji said:

You sound like a car salesman, and prince is the lemon.

Oh get over it Mr7: it's not only the french government; its more entire europe. And safe from what I already knew from people; 333 has been giving you facts on the JW that show that they are far from a pure religion, yet you only reply claiming that's it all written to be anti-Jw, but not once did you actually succeed in discharging the claims/facts that were put forward.

Any critic is perceived as anti-JW; but never were you able to proof they are wrong.

so the diuscussion on JW; I just refer people to past treads; and they can make up their on mind.

So; yes, I feel for Prince, but no; I do not concider the JW, larry a positive influence. far from it.

I just hope that time will heal the wounds...

Mr7 said

So, you claim that Jehovah's Witnesses are an "alternative religion" as opposed to a cult, huh? What is an "alternative religion"? Why does JW fit in this category? What do you consider a cult? Which organisations do you think fit in the "cult" category?

It is not "religious intolerance" if that which is not tolerated is not a religion - yes?

Mindflux said:

***

i.e - Not the state religion or a religion supported and endorsed by the state.

Because Jehovah's Witnesses firmly follow the Bible, some of their beliefs set them apart from Christendom. This is why, Jehovah's Witnesses are often not refered to or considered a 'christian' religion. This is because they do not ascribe to the basic tenents of Christendom (Trinity, immortality of the soul etc).

However, Jehovah's Witnesses do not wish to be associated with Christendom and desire to differenciate themselves from it. If being a 'sect' means going against the non-biblical teachings of Christendom and daring to be different, then I guess Jehovah's Witnesses would be considered a 'sect of Christianity', by those standards.

There is a long and bitter history of other religions, particularly Catholicism being strongly oppossed (sometimes violently so) to the activities of Jehovah's Witnesses, with their links to the state these can easily disseminate false information and try to warp public opinion.

While other religions are steadily declining and Church buildings being sold, Jehovah's Witnesses continue to expand rapidly, with hundreds of new Kingdom Halls being built each year and over 5,000 new one's being baptised weekly.

Obviously, most if not some of these newly baptised one's come from other religions and this can create animosity.
[This message was edited Fri May 2 6:19:31 PDT 2003 by Mr7]

zobilamouche said:

***

In no way it it Europe as an entirety. There has been massive growth and expansion in Europe. The preaching work is not even under restriction. Jehovah's Witnesses worship together legally.

In the United Kingdom Jehovah's Witnesses are fully recognised as a religion.

In my discussions with 333 I have often offered proof of my opinions, but this has rarely been accepted.

In addition I do not need to 'prove' my faith and the reasons for it to individuals such as 333, and neither do the six and a half million baptised Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide.

Did Prince lose his soul once...?

How come?

Mindflux said:

WEBSTER's Dictionary says this:
"1.formal religious veneration: worship
2. a system of religious belief and ritual; also: it's body of adherents 3. enthusiastic and usual temporary devotion to a person place or thing b. a group of persons showing such devotion.

You asked " which religions ...would fit into this category?"

I would say just about all organized religion fit the actual meaning...
and that some people really don't know their definitions.

Well; I'm not religious and there's never been any proof of the existence of god. For as far as we can tell, mickey mouse is more of a reality then god. So if you believe whatever the jw doctrine tells you, is up to you.

But the problems concerning the social oppression within the JW group is defintely a fact; whether you are a believer or not; things like that have not been dismissed in any of your arguments and are being looked at by various governments.

That JW is not a proscecuted cult has more to do with the tolerance in our countries then with the legitimacy of it's teachings.