TrivialPursuit said:

This is cobbled together. I can't see Prince doing all those vocals over an Anita Baker sample, and a looped Linn. Feels more like something Rashida did on her own. No way Prince produced that.

he did the same thing on "U Know" from Art Official Age, didn't he?

I should listen to that song again today and see if i remember correctly.

Big props to those who shared this, much appreciated like water during a drought.

lustmealways said:

Fantastic and hook-laden track that demonstrates his total mastery of vocal layering

I just keep saying this...he made it all look so so easy. All of those vocals are him. So many little 'brush strokes'....so much effort and then he puts it away for the remainder of his life.

I know it sounds like that Anita Baker song but, I would be totally ok with him filling up albums of stuff like this..

FJODOR said:

TrivialPursuit said:

This is cobbled together. I can't see Prince doing all those vocals over an Anita Baker sample, and a looped Linn. Feels more like something Rashida did on her own. No way Prince produced that.

he did the same thing on "U Know" from Art Official Age, didn't he?

I should listen to that song again today and see if i remember correctly.

I couldn't tell you one thing about that album other than I don't fuck with it.

databank said:

dodger07 said:

databank said: You know you love these fan made mixes

I still disapprove of them, but now with AI, I have to accept the reality of the fact that people will make them and there is nothing to be done about it except maybe reminding them that if they choose to do so, they choose to blur the lines between reality and illusion, and clutter the Internet with fake works of art that many people will naively assume is the real deal. But if someone realizes this and still choose to do so, I have to accept it.

.

And it's only the begining: today, we see fanmade mixes. Tomorrow, AI will generate brand new Prince songs from scratch, that will probably be great and undistinguishable from the real deal. The real detective work will be to figure out whether it's a leak from the vault or something an AI made. TBH, my first reflex with this new song was already to ask myself whether it could possibly be an AI creation, but then I thought the technology probably isn't there yet to make something that sounds so authentic.

.

Anyway this is now a problem that goes waaay beyond music and arts: being able to distinguish real content from fake content has already become an issue for the last decade or so, but with the advent of AI-generated contents, it's going to become a crucial skill for each and every one of us to develop.

.

In a few years' time, one that doesn't ask themselves for pretty much everything they read, see or hear whether it is genuine/human or AI-generated will more often than not find themselves living in an imaginary world.

I agree with everything you said about AI, Databank. The thing is, one mostly encounters AI creations - fake art, fake music - on social media like Fakebook which is also run by AI, so my suggestion is to start spending less time on social media platforms like that. Every time Fakenewsbook suggests something someone's posted to me and I can see it's AI, I block whomever posted it so I'll never see it from that source again, but, you know... it's an uphill battle. I wrote a suggestion to Fakebook that they create a forum for reporting AI created material so they can remove the posts, but I never heard anything back. But yeah, definitely do not take everything you see on social media as fact. Like, a video reporting that Hugh Jackman was gay showed up in my Fakebook news stream not that long ago. Some beautiful paintings but they were AI and not real art. Star Wars fan videos made with AI. And of course lots of fake celebrity AI "pictures" that border on pornography. I's all just spam, spam, spam and all you can do is block, block, block. As for YouTube, I rarely go there anymore either. Music videoes are drowning in advertisements. There's a word for what's happened to YouTube and Fakebook, "enshittification". It means that what once started as quality products have been ruined by corporate greed and the advent of AI technology. Anyway, all I'm saying is that I agree: AI is bad and I have zero interest in any AI generated "Prince" tracks.

[Edited 11/26/24 16:54pm]

databank said:

ShellyMcG said:

I get why we're not allowed to openly discuss where to find such things but it's a shame nevertheless. Having said that, I'm pretty sure I still haven't heard all the officially released stuff

That's untrue. We can talk about whatever. We can't share links or tell where to get anything not official like this.

At the top of the forum:

NO TROLL THREADS! NO SOLICITING FOR OFFERS OF BOOTLEGS! Discussion of a recording is fine, so long as the bootleg is not being promoted e.g. pre-release. Requests/offers to share, copy, locate etc.; and links, directions etc. to upload, download, or streaming bootleg/piracy sites are not permitted.

Being against AI seems age-bound, or something driven by fear of the new.
Better to try to understand it, learn it, use the best of it and indeed stay sharp for what is fake or innovative.
We will definitely get trained to be able to distinguish, from what can be used or not.
I like to move forward, I embrace new technology.
There will never be Prince songs written by AI that can match even the worst of Prince's own creations. AI can only create something after studying all the inputs, so there will always be that limit.
Prince's creativity was never limited. AI is not an artist. But it can process all existing inputs into something interpretable.
Without human input, AI is nothing.
But AI can help with progressions that are difficult and expensive to do by someone themselves, like cleaning up music for example.
Anyway, I'm all for the new. Why be against it in the first place?
Prince would probably be against it too at first (maybe for religious reasons) , but might use it eventually, knowing him.
Look at all the things he did that he was against at first.
Smart curiosity can create new opportunities.
But always stay alert.

-

If I like a fan's mix, I play it.
Prince also had people remixing his songs.
These fan mixes would obviously be without his approval, but times change.
He left us, we have to move on with a the shit left behind and make the best of it.
I really like this new song, be it AI made or not.
Indeed a fresh welcome while there is little new this year.
And if a fan can make a great mix with AI, and I like it, it's all good to me.

Even if it's not pure new Prince.

For sure each his own on this, with all respect.

I reckon my ignorance about AI, but I'm also reluctant to it - particularly if its 'creations' pretend to go down as a real deal (name it a song, a picture or whatever).

.

But on the other hand, in my ignorance, I like to think it could become a useful tool to clean up (and not re-create or make up non-existing parts of) audio recordings. Go think of any atrocious sound-quality-wise bootleg from the 80's or the 90's. I've heard some amateur clean-ups and while it still leaves a lot to be desired, maybe in a near future something convincing enough could be achieved.

Saying "AI is bad" or "AI is good" is over-simplistic and not useful at all. AI is happening. And quickly, in a few years (10-20 years at the most), the authenticity of Prince tracks will be the least of our worries. We're talking about an existential risk, here. Humanity is not ready to face what's coming. I'm actually quite depressed about it.

Anyway, we should think really hard about how we can use all those new technologies in a good way. It's easy to see how AI can be used (and is already used) to spread misinformation, endanger democracies, create even more dangereous weapons, etc. But it can also be used for creative purposes. Let's focus on that.

TrivialPursuit said:

This is cobbled together. I can't see Prince doing all those vocals over an Anita Baker sample, and a looped Linn. Feels more like something Rashida did on her own. No way Prince produced that.

.
Totally agree. Prince wasn't this lazy as a producer. Even if he didn't have access to any instruments and only had this drum sample and piano sample to play with, he would've been more creative with them than just letting them play continously.

It randomly came up on my FB feed yesterday (must've been a Prince group post - but I was so shocked I didn't register) so I guess I didnt search for it!

I really like it, reminds me a bit of the U Know, with the simple piano loop

[Edited 11/27/24 1:36am]

olb99 said:

Saying "AI is bad" or "AI is good" is over-simplistic and not useful at all. AI is happening. And quickly, in a few years (10-20 years at the most), the authenticity of Prince tracks will be the least of our worries. We're talking about an existential risk, here. Humanity is not ready to face what's coming. I'm actually quite depressed about it.

Anyway, we should think really hard about how we can use all those new technologies in a good way. It's easy to see how AI can be used (and is already used) to spread misinformation, endanger democracies, create even more dangereous weapons, etc. But it can also be used for creative purposes. Let's focus on that.

See it like this, the whole idea of the internet is very young in history terms.

It is kicking around like a teenager, and it's new problems or oportunities like AI grow fast.

Give it time.

I believe in the goodness of the use of new technology, and in the honesty of men.

There will always be those who abuse new posibilities.

But in the end, it will turn out well. Goodness always prevails.

I for one see a lot of new posiblities for Prince's legacy. And it won't be long before someone uses his brains with all this. I can't, (I wish), i'm just the spectator.

TrivialPursuit said:

ShellyMcG said:

I get why we're not allowed to openly discuss where to find such things but it's a shame nevertheless. Having said that, I'm pretty sure I still haven't heard all the officially released stuff

That's untrue. We can talk about whatever. We can't share links or tell where to get anything not official like this.

At the top of the forum:

NO TROLL THREADS! NO SOLICITING FOR OFFERS OF BOOTLEGS! Discussion of a recording is fine, so long as the bootleg is not being promoted e.g. pre-release. Requests/offers to share, copy, locate etc.; and links, directions etc. to upload, download, or streaming bootleg/piracy sites are not permitted.

How is it untrue?

ShellyMcG said:

I get why we're not allowed to openly discuss where to find such things

Shelly is saying we're not allowed to discuss were to find them and that is absolutely true.

AI is a net negative for society and I want it destroyed and dismantled and banished.

But instead of this SHIT we should be talking about this fucking great new song!!!

Doozer said:

Both the fully produced track and the. “alt” (which features the same vocals but far fewer keys and embellishments) are circulating as of Nov 25. databank said:

Comparatively to 1977-95, very little is known about P's unreleased material after 1995.

Has the alt. version you mention leaked or is it just in the hands of some collectors?

[Edited 11/25/24 19:56pm]

Thanks, though it appears this alt. version is harder to track down.

scififilmnerd said:

databank said:

I still disapprove of them, but now with AI, I have to accept the reality of the fact that people will make them and there is nothing to be done about it except maybe reminding them that if they choose to do so, they choose to blur the lines between reality and illusion, and clutter the Internet with fake works of art that many people will naively assume is the real deal. But if someone realizes this and still choose to do so, I have to accept it.

.

And it's only the begining: today, we see fanmade mixes. Tomorrow, AI will generate brand new Prince songs from scratch, that will probably be great and undistinguishable from the real deal. The real detective work will be to figure out whether it's a leak from the vault or something an AI made. TBH, my first reflex with this new song was already to ask myself whether it could possibly be an AI creation, but then I thought the technology probably isn't there yet to make something that sounds so authentic.

.

Anyway this is now a problem that goes waaay beyond music and arts: being able to distinguish real content from fake content has already become an issue for the last decade or so, but with the advent of AI-generated contents, it's going to become a crucial skill for each and every one of us to develop.

.

In a few years' time, one that doesn't ask themselves for pretty much everything they read, see or hear whether it is genuine/human or AI-generated will more often than not find themselves living in an imaginary world.

I agree with everything you said about AI, Databank. The thing is, one mostly encounters AI creations - fake art, fake music - on social media like Fakebook which is also run by AI, so my suggestion is to start spending less time on social media platforms like that. Every time Fakenewsbook suggests something someone's posted to me and I can see it's AI, I block whomever posted it so I'll never see it from that source again, but, you know... it's an uphill battle. I wrote a suggestion to Fakebook that they create a forum for reporting AI created material so they can remove the posts, but I never heard anything back. But yeah, definitely do not take everything you see on social media as fact. Like, a video reporting that Hugh Jackman was gay showed up in my Fakebook news stream not that long ago. Some beautiful paintings but they were AI and not real art. Star Wars fan videos made with AI. And of course lots of fake celebrity AI "pictures" that border on pornography. I's all just spam, spam, spam and all you can do is block, block, block. As for YouTube, I rarely go there anymore either. Music videoes are drowning in advertisements. There's a word for what's happened to YouTube and Fakebook, "enshittification". It means that what once started as quality products have been ruined by corporate greed and the advent of AI technology. Anyway, all I'm saying is that I agree: AI is bad and I have zero interest in any AI generated "Prince" tracks.

[Edited 11/26/24 16:54pm]

I been off social media for nearly 3 years now. How it must have changed indeed...

Vannormal said:

Being against AI seems age-bound, or something driven by fear of the new.
Better to try to understand it, learn it, use the best of it and indeed stay sharp for what is fake or innovative.
We will definitely get trained to be able to distinguish, from what can be used or not.
I like to move forward, I embrace new technology.
There will never be Prince songs written by AI that can match even the worst of Prince's own creations. AI can only create something after studying all the inputs, so there will always be that limit.
Prince's creativity was never limited. AI is not an artist. But it can process all existing inputs into something interpretable.
Without human input, AI is nothing.
But AI can help with progressions that are difficult and expensive to do by someone themselves, like cleaning up music for example.
Anyway, I'm all for the new. Why be against it in the first place?
Prince would probably be against it too at first (maybe for religious reasons) , but might use it eventually, knowing him.
Look at all the things he did that he was against at first.
Smart curiosity can create new opportunities.
But always stay alert.

-

If I like a fan's mix, I play it.
Prince also had people remixing his songs.
These fan mixes would obviously be without his approval, but times change.
He left us, we have to move on with a the shit left behind and make the best of it.
I really like this new song, be it AI made or not.
Indeed a fresh welcome while there is little new this year.
And if a fan can make a great mix with AI, and I like it, it's all good to me.

Even if it's not pure new Prince.

For sure each his own on this, with all respect.

I wouldn't bet on this. It's bound to become undistinguishable. What we do (as artists or otherwise) is just what AI does: processing information and influences to rearrange elements and come-up with new assemblies. Prince's creativity was limited by (or, more appropriately, to) the corpus of arts and music he had been exposed to and his own cognitive limitations (it's actually already obvious when you compare his work to the work of other musicians who chose to expose themselves to other or larger spectrums of musical genres).

AIs are already getting better than scientists when it comes to finding new chemical elements, antibiotics, medical molecules, treatments, industrial solutions, procedures, etc. No offense meant, but it is very naive to believe they won't be able to produce art that is as, if not more enjoyable than humans', given that the corpus AIs can digest is by definition much larger than what a single human can listen to, and that the amount of "neuronal connections" they can make is much larger as well.

[Edited 11/27/24 6:50am]

Kares said:

TrivialPursuit said:

This is cobbled together. I can't see Prince doing all those vocals over an Anita Baker sample, and a looped Linn. Feels more like something Rashida did on her own. No way Prince produced that.

.
Totally agree. Prince wasn't this lazy as a producer. Even if he didn't have access to any instruments and only had this drum sample and piano sample to play with, he would've been more creative with them than just letting them play continously.

I wouldn't be too hasty about this. We have Prince demos that are very primitive (just think Standing At The Altar on D&P SDE, or quite a few bootlegs we've had for decades), so for as long as it's something he left in the vault, it can just be a draft that he would most likely have reworked if he'd decided to release it. Not so much a matter of lazyness as a matter of quickly putting an idea to tape while it's fresh in his head.

olb99 said:

Saying "AI is bad" or "AI is good" is over-simplistic and not useful at all. AI is happening. And quickly, in a few years (10-20 years at the most), the authenticity of Prince tracks will be the least of our worries. We're talking about an existential risk, here. Humanity is not ready to face what's coming. I'm actually quite depressed about it.

Anyway, we should think really hard about how we can use all those new technologies in a good way. It's easy to see how AI can be used (and is already used) to spread misinformation, endanger democracies, create even more dangereous weapons, etc. But it can also be used for creative purposes. Let's focus on that.

I feel ya, but I'm not depressed because there are so many ways this can go right or wrong or both that I have no idea of the outcome (and TBH I'm not necessarily against existential threats: the end of the human race as it is doesn't seem like such a bad idea to me ). Either way it was bound to happen sooner or later, and I find it quite fascinating to be alive to see it happen.

Dupe

[Edited 11/27/24 6:53am]

lustmealways said:

AI is a net negative for society and I want it destroyed and dismantled and banished.

I think it's way too early to tell. But either way it's happening and it's going to keep happening.

But instead of this SHIT we should be talking about this fucking great new song!!!

You are right, I didn't mean to derail the thread, but I guess the way AI easily permeates conversations is a reflection on how it permeates every aspect of our lives.

databank said:

Kares said:

.
Totally agree. Prince wasn't this lazy as a producer. Even if he didn't have access to any instruments and only had this drum sample and piano sample to play with, he would've been more creative with them than just letting them play continously.

I wouldn't be too hasty about this. We have Prince demos that are very primitive (just think Standing At The Altar on D&P SDE, or quite a few bootlegs we've had for decades), so for as long as it's something he left in the vault, it can just be a draft that he would most likely have reworked if he'd decided to release it. Not so much a matter of lazyness as a matter of quickly putting an idea to tape while it's fresh in his head.

.
The amazing, multi-layered background vocals on this doesn't sound like just "quickly putting an idea to tape" to me. He clearly put a lot of work into these vocals.

Kares said:

databank said:

I wouldn't be too hasty about this. We have Prince demos that are very primitive (just think Standing At The Altar on D&P SDE, or quite a few bootlegs we've had for decades), so for as long as it's something he left in the vault, it can just be a draft that he would most likely have reworked if he'd decided to release it. Not so much a matter of lazyness as a matter of quickly putting an idea to tape while it's fresh in his head.

.
The amazing, multi-layered background vocals on this doesn't sound like just "quickly putting an idea to tape" to me. He clearly put a lot of work into these vocals.

True, but maybe he spent time on the vocals and thought I'll deal with the backing track later. Or maybe he liked the simplicity of it (for someone who liked to "overproduce" so much, sometimes he surprisingly decided less was better). Honestly IDK and your ears are better than mine, but I wouldn't assume someone messed with it just because of the backing track.

Kares said:

databank said:

I wouldn't be too hasty about this. We have Prince demos that are very primitive (just think Standing At The Altar on D&P SDE, or quite a few bootlegs we've had for decades), so for as long as it's something he left in the vault, it can just be a draft that he would most likely have reworked if he'd decided to release it. Not so much a matter of lazyness as a matter of quickly putting an idea to tape while it's fresh in his head.

.
The amazing, multi-layered background vocals on this doesn't sound like just "quickly putting an idea to tape" to me. He clearly put a lot of work into these vocals.

OK, I just read somewhere else that someone reliable (IDK if they wanna be quoted, so I'll purposedly stay vague) explained this is a 2006 remix of a 2000 track. In this case, the "remix" part may explain the simplicity of the backing track.

Kares said:

databank said:

I wouldn't be too hasty about this. We have Prince demos that are very primitive (just think Standing At The Altar on D&P SDE, or quite a few bootlegs we've had for decades), so for as long as it's something he left in the vault, it can just be a draft that he would most likely have reworked if he'd decided to release it. Not so much a matter of lazyness as a matter of quickly putting an idea to tape while it's fresh in his head.

.
The amazing, multi-layered background vocals on this doesn't sound like just "quickly putting an idea to tape" to me. He clearly put a lot of work into these vocals.

Which is obvious when yo hear it.

It's full of fun.

It's been a while since i heard a 'fun' track by Prince.

Like it very very much.

-

If you put the volume up at the end of the song (nearly a full minute), you hear him speak/sing/rap without music for nearly a minute!

Somhow it's mixed down (in this uploaded YouPipe version, ya know where i mean).

databank said:

Doozer said:

Both the fully produced track and the. “alt” (which features the same vocals but far fewer keys and embellishments) are circulating as of Nov 25. databank said: [Edited 11/25/24 19:56pm]

Thanks, though it appears this alt. version is harder to track down.

I need to look for it as well.

If it's the same "alt" I heard, don't bother - someone notated that it appears to again be just AI removal of certain elements. I'm not gonna pretend I listened close enough to say definitely, but I'm inclined to believe the peanut gallery here.

lustmealways said:

If it's the same "alt" I heard, don't bother - someone notated that it appears to again be just AI removal of certain elements. I'm not gonna pretend I listened close enough to say definitely, but I'm inclined to believe the peanut gallery here.

And people have been asking me for over a decade what my problem was with fanmixes

What I do know is that there is an AI, fanmade version doing the rounds with the ending volume leveled up.

IDK if this is the same one you and others are refering to or if this "alt. mix" is yet another version that may or may not be genuine and that I haven't heard.

What I thought from the begining is that if, as I read, the "main" version comes from a streamed DJ mix, then why should there be a second version doing the rounds and where would it come from?

[Edited 11/27/24 13:40pm]

the "alt" i heard was an m4a file that had the piano taken out and other than that was pretty much the same - though i will admit it totally changed the vibe of the song. some others who listened closer noted some bleed thru from where the sampled piano was/should be - leading it to being a likely fanmade thing. at least, that's what i took from the situation. no need to work anyone up over it, seems to be nothing of real interest. the real mccoy is still the og version.