Gooddoctor23 said:

JorisE73 said:

I'm not saying the mid 90s wasn't a exiting time, I also love that era, but most of his fans were put off by the name change the lackluster releases that he tried to sabotage etc. and it all showed because he couldn't even sell out arenas anymore.

lol....musicology was literally arenas.........in the 2,000s.

And your point is? Musicology was 2004, his so called 'comeback', we were talking about his fall off in the 90s when his fanbase died.

bozojones said:

JorisE73 said:

Obviously not, but you seem to be.
Prince didn't inform us about anything his entire career and wasn't transparent in the slightest and why should he?
Now they are still doing that (standard business practice) and suddenly it's a problem. Besides the people who do inform us (not here obviously) told us already some of the behind the scenes things going on since 2016, but it seems people here just like to make up things and bash the management for what is only going on in there own heads. Insane.
In the 90s probably 90% of his fanbase moved on but luckily for Prince the internet became a thing and the 10.000 fans left could interact easier with each other and they are still around.
His fandom is exactly where it was back in 98, call it dead or whatever, it doesn't matter in the end.

Londell and Charles aren't Prince. They shouldn't be trying to emulate the more frustrating parts of Prince's career and personality, either. They run the estate and should work with a professional transparency of what is going on and what fans can expect. If you don't agree with that, well, I hope you enjoy this current shitshow.

OK, I'm someone who can be patient and I don't think the fans are onb there radar at the moment, simply because they have more important things to sort out then to inform the couple of thousand bitching and moaning whiners that are left who atre delusional enough to think they are entitled or owed transparency of anything going on at Paisley Park. Prince didn't think much of his 'Fans' so why should they?
Just be patient maybe something will shows up, maybe not, there is enough material to listen to for the moment.

JorisE73 said:

bozojones said:

Londell and Charles aren't Prince. They shouldn't be trying to emulate the more frustrating parts of Prince's career and personality, either. They run the estate and should work with a professional transparency of what is going on and what fans can expect. If you don't agree with that, well, I hope you enjoy this current shitshow.

OK, I'm someone who can be patient and I don't think the fans are onb there radar at the moment, simply because they have more important things to sort out then to inform the couple of thousand bitching and moaning whiners that are left who atre delusional enough to think they are entitled or owed transparency of anything going on at Paisley Park. Prince didn't think much of his 'Fans' so why should they?

What important things, self-congratulatory tweets and shilling merchandise on their online store? You act like these guys are working tirelessly behind the scenes in a way that will pay off down the road if we all just give the estate a little more grace than we already have. Meanwhile, they've been fleecing the fans for the last two years straight and haven't shown any signs of pivoting to a strategy that actually honors Prince's music and legacy.

Londell and Charles have shown exactly who they are, and they ain't worth defending. Stop sticking your neck out for these dipshits and tsk-tsking fans for their rightful criticism.

leecaldon said:

lurker316 said:

Are you joking? It's the hardcore fan, not the casual fan, who wants them to go in chronological order. The Estate's strategy of targeting the biggest hits is the way to interest casual fans. It's not necessarily to my personal tastes. Like you, I would love if they went in chronological order. But unlike you, I recognize that my person tastes wouldn't be less appealing to the casual fans.

Agreed. A chronological release slate would have made no sense at all from a commercial point of view.

I've said this before, but in the very early 90s Rykodisc started reissuing David Bowie's original albums in sequence from beginning to end, and this had the effect of introducing and familiarizing me and my friends with his work. It was a very successful way to do it, I think. 10 years later when they did remasters, they did the same thing.

Prince's work, especially in the 80s, tells an amazing story if you go sequentially. It's a real journey, and I absolutely think that the estate should do releases that way. Each one of those 80s records deserves special treatment right up through Scandalous Sex Suite /Batman, and Graffiti Bridge.

JorisE73 said:

JorisE73 said:

Gooddoctor23 said:

lol....musicology was literally arenas.........in the 2,000s.

And your point is? Musicology was 2004, his so called 'comeback', we were talking about his fall off in the 90s when his fanbase died.

What on Earth r u talking about? Prince's Welcome 2 America tour was 2012......selling out arenas.

2015 Baltimore was an arena.

[Edited 11/20/24 19:27pm]

FancyLesbian said:

leecaldon said:

Agreed. A chronological release slate would have made no sense at all from a commercial point of view.

I've said this before, but in the very early 90s Rykodisc started reissuing David Bowie's original albums in sequence from beginning to end, and this had the effect of introducing and familiarizing me and my friends with his work. It was a very successful way to do it, I think. 10 years later when they did remasters, they did the same thing.

Prince's work, especially in the 80s, tells an amazing story if you go sequentially. It's a real journey, and I absolutely think that the estate should do releases that way. Each one of those 80s records deserves special treatment right up through Scandalous Sex Suite /Batman, and Graffiti Bridge.

A lot of his records since then deserve it too - Symbol (which is good to go), The Gold Experience, Emancipation, Musicology, 3121, Plectrumelectrum/3rdEyeGirl era.

bozojones said:

... They run the estate and should work with a professional transparency of what is going on and what fans can expect....

uhmm I think they already did inform what the plans are:

1. Cellly 2025: PR 2.0

2. PR Broadway Musical 2025

We don't have to like it, but they were transparent in that regard.

So hopefully they will get their shit show together.

However, these are lawyers running the show, so I am not expecting much.

bozojones said:

JorisE73 said:

OK, I'm someone who can be patient and I don't think the fans are onb there radar at the moment, simply because they have more important things to sort out then to inform the couple of thousand bitching and moaning whiners that are left who atre delusional enough to think they are entitled or owed transparency of anything going on at Paisley Park. Prince didn't think much of his 'Fans' so why should they?

What important things, self-congratulatory tweets and shilling merchandise on their online store? You act like these guys are working tirelessly behind the scenes in a way that will pay off down the road if we all just give the estate a little more grace than we already have. Meanwhile, they've been fleecing the fans for the last two years straight and haven't shown any signs of pivoting to a strategy that actually honors Prince's music and legacy.

Londell and Charles have shown exactly who they are, and they ain't worth defending. Stop sticking your neck out for these dipshits and tsk-tsking fans for their rightful criticism.

Lilke I said, more about the behind the scenes stuff and reasons that for example SDE is blocked for the moment (work on video material etc.) has been told to us months ago and were discussed back then
I'm not defending them at all, heel I don't even like those guys, but I'll wait to pound on these jackasses once they've actually released something that was not from the previous management

Gooddoctor23 said:

JorisE73 said:

And your point is? Musicology was 2004, his so called 'comeback', we were talking about his fall off in the 90s when his fanbase died.

What on Earth r u talking about? Prince's Welcome 2 America tour was 2012......selling out arenas.

2015 Baltimore was an arena.

[Edited 11/20/24 19:27pm]

Like I said we were talking about the 90s when his fanbase dropped off.
When 2004 arrived with his so called 'comeback' the n sure he sold out some arenas with his nostalgia act catering to tourists and daytrippers. But in the end it's only the same old 10000 fans that bought his records

WhisperingDandelions said:

From that perspective, chronological would actually hype up the fanbase more

.

Absolute nonsense.

Trufunksoulja said:

bozojones said:

... They run the estate and should work with a professional transparency of what is going on and what fans can expect....

uhmm I think they already did inform what the plans are:

1. Cellly 2025: PR 2.0

2. PR Broadway Musical 2025

We don't have to like it, but they were transparent in that regard.

So hopefully they will get their shit show together.

However, these are lawyers running the show, so I am not expecting much.

I guess what bozojones meant is that they're not transparent regarding upcoming music releases, which is what most of us remaining fans are interested in.

IIRC, they mentioned on Twitter/X that they need to address/fix a number of legal issues, which includes the Netflix deal, but also other things (the WB soundtracks issue? other issues we don't know about?). The problem is that it can take months, or years. We don't know. They don't have to, but they could give us some updates about what's happening. Obviously, they can't be fully transparent about it. We're talking about legal issues, here. But they could be a bit less vague about what they're doing.

[Edited 11/21/24 4:54am]

JorisE73 said:

bozojones said:

Londell and Charles aren't Prince. They shouldn't be trying to emulate the more frustrating parts of Prince's career and personality, either. They run the estate and should work with a professional transparency of what is going on and what fans can expect. If you don't agree with that, well, I hope you enjoy this current shitshow.

OK, I'm someone who can be patient and I don't think the fans are onb there radar at the moment, simply because they have more important things to sort out then to inform the couple of thousand bitching and moaning whiners that are left who atre delusional enough to think they are entitled or owed transparency of anything going on at Paisley Park. Prince didn't think much of his 'Fans' so why should they?
Just be patient maybe something will shows up, maybe not, there is enough material to listen to for the moment.

@Joris,

You know I usually agree with you, but here I have to respectfully disagree.

1.) No one is saying they're "entitled" to a new a release or transparancy about a new release. People are simply saying that a new release, or at least info about it, would: a.) make fans happy, and b.) make good business sense for the Estate. No where in that sentiment is the idea of entitlement.

To put it another way, saying "This would benefit everyone" isn' the samething as saying "You owe me this." For example, if I say I'd desperately like to have sex with Halle Berry, and I'm confident she'd enjoy it, that's not me saying I'm "entitled" to have sex with her.

2.) It makes no sense to make a blanket, general statement that fans need to be patient. "Patience" is a subjective idea on a sliding scale. Is it reaonable to ask fans to be patient and wait one year for the next release? Yes, of course. Is it reasonable to ask fans to be patient and wait 10 years for the next release? No, that's absurb.

To be clear, I understand it's not been 10 years yet, and I realize (hope?) we're likely to get something sooner than that. My point is that there's a line somewhere between 1 year and 10 years that, were the Estate to cross, it would no longer be reasonable.

In other words, there comes a point where patience does't make sense. Are we there yet? That's subjective and reasonable people can disagree.

Moreover, what's wrong with being impatient? It simply means you're eager to have something you love. I'm impaitent to spend time with my family. Is that a bad thing?

I quite understand JorisE73's non-hystical opinion, and somehow agree with it
Though...
True, they ‘sort of’ made it more or less clear about not being able to release a new SDE because of the inclusion of live stuff.
They did so via a super-short tweet on X/twitter.
An almost cryptic message, not specific, just an opinion of Spicer or Londell himself not wanting to release anything without live material - hence the Netflix contract (probably).
So, so... we had to figure it out ourselves.
I prefer no communication, rather than this kind of flawed communication, which is even more unprofessional than simply remaining silent.
But we got the message, more or less.
The so-called Broadway show has been postponed until late next year.
No precise reason why.
We'll see if they make it to the end of 2025.
Purple Rain SDE 2.0 may get a 2025 release. Nothing is certain yet.
It may (somehow) be a parallel release with the broadway show - same theme release.
-
I also want to wait and see what the new bunch of lawyers can release (as JorisE73 says), all their own, fresh. No ivolvement of the previous estate, and see if it's better or not.
No one can say much about this yet.

I also was angry for along time for having no info, no future plans unfold.

We'll all just have to wait and see. That's all.
-
In my not so humble opinion;
If this fandom is dead, it is because of this fandom (site).
There is too much disagreement, blaming, chasing mistakes, splitting into camps and childish attitudes, (about sharing music for example alone or where to find something).

This is a sure reason why so many peope left here.

[Edited 11/21/24 7:05am]

JorisE73 said:

bozojones said:

What important things, self-congratulatory tweets and shilling merchandise on their online store? You act like these guys are working tirelessly behind the scenes in a way that will pay off down the road if we all just give the estate a little more grace than we already have. Meanwhile, they've been fleecing the fans for the last two years straight and haven't shown any signs of pivoting to a strategy that actually honors Prince's music and legacy.

Londell and Charles have shown exactly who they are, and they ain't worth defending. Stop sticking your neck out for these dipshits and tsk-tsking fans for their rightful criticism.

Lilke I said, more about the behind the scenes stuff and reasons that for example SDE is blocked for the moment (work on video material etc.) has been told to us months ago and were discussed back then
I'm not defending them at all, heel I don't even like those guys, but I'll wait to pound on these jackasses once they've actually released something that was not from the previous management

https://princevault.com/i...gether_Now

That was just a post-Celebration single, and they managed to fuck that up with the mono mixdown issue. Pound away.

Londell and Charles are the same guys who lied about Celebration 2024 being a smash success when feedback from attendees painted a starkly different picture: a poorly organized and overpriced event from top to bottom, where huge corners were very obviously cut for the sole purpose of lining the estate's pockets. These guys are so transparently dishonest and greedy that I don't know why anyone still gives them the benefit of the doubt.

All of this "be patient and give them a chance" shit made sense when they first stepped in a few years back. Now that they've shown us for two years straight how unprofessional and incompetent they are, you have to be stupidly naive to think that they'll magically get their shit together.

bozojones said:

JorisE73 said:

Lilke I said, more about the behind the scenes stuff and reasons that for example SDE is blocked for the moment (work on video material etc.) has been told to us months ago and were discussed back then
I'm not defending them at all, heel I don't even like those guys, but I'll wait to pound on these jackasses once they've actually released something that was not from the previous management

https://princevault.com/i...gether_Now

That was just a post-Celebration single, and they managed to fuck that up with the mono mixdown issue. Pound away.

Sure a asshole move to intentionally mess it up but Spicer explained that it was because of bootlegging "fans" (can't blame him for being right about that, so i kind of get it.)
I'll wait for a proper real release to critisise.

I know its frustrating that they aren't transparent, but they seem to be tied up in legal matters so I understand that they can't talk much about anything they are or aren't doing. I also want releases ASAP but it is what it is and whining doesn't do anyone good other than feed the frustration.
I was really hopeful for a release this summer but shit happens it seems

Vannormal said:

If this fandom is dead, it is because of this fandom (site).
There is too much disagreement, blaming, chasing mistakes, splitting into camps and childish attitudes, (about sharing music for example alone or where to find something).

This is a sure reason why so many peope left here.

More reasons:

- this site is old, badly maintained, regularly down, threads are regularly disappearing and never re-appearing, etc.

- no proper release since October 2023

- no upcoming release to get excited about

- fans are getting (even) older (and, yes, they also die)

- many other places to discuss Prince (Discord servers, other forums, Reddit, Facebook, etc.)

[Edited 11/21/24 9:02am]

I'm so sad about the Estate management that I'm moving away. I spend last months listening last Momus and The Cure albums. I'll come back to Prince when were will be something consistent.

I am not very versed in who all is running the estate these days. Knowing nothing of any legal entanglements, I sure do wish there was more music coming out. For so so long, my top 3 wishlist would have been remastered releases of Sign O The Times, Purple Rain, and 1999. So I am thankful we got those (even though Purple Rain was less than ideal, it still sounds better than the CD I bought back in 1989). While I bought all of Prince's albums from For You through Musicology, I revere his amazing 1980's run. It's not a choice - it's the era that I still find thrilling. After all the thousands of listens, I should be tired of it, but I'm not! I enjoyed his 90's albums when they were released, but I don't revisit them much anymore, with the exception of a few tracks. So count me among those who really want the rest of his 80's albums remastered, along with vault tracks and a live set.

Does anyone else remember making mixtapes of music to listen in the car, and any 1980's Prince songs would be way quieter than everything else? It used to drive me crazy! The audio quality of his CDs from back in the day is pretty poor. Listening to Sign O the Times remastered on vinyl was every bit as revelatory as I dreamed. Housequake and Strange Relationship had the oomph that the CDs did not. Slow Love, always sort of a meh song for me, sounded amazing remastered - it reminded me of the lush production of Sinatra doing Summer Wind in the 1960's. And Adore took my breath away, particularly the ending that sounds as if he's singing with angels, ascending to heaven.

I am grateful for those remasters, but am hoping for more - even if it isn't anytime soon. The thought of hearing Parade or Lovesexy remastered, that's my new dream.

As for his fandom, or more specifically this forum, I just stumbled upon it about 10 years ago. So I guess I missed the heyday. But I enjoy coming here and reading people's thoughts. And I love the diversity of opinions. Prince was always sort of a solitary listening experience for me - most of my friends found his weirdness off putting. So getting to read the thoughts of others who know more about him than I, and who love his music at least as much as I, is really fun. So I hope everyone sticks around!

[Edited 11/21/24 10:32am]

Just the tip:

Listen to all of your Prince produced tracks on random play.

U will B amazed!

FancyLesbian said:

andrewm7new said:

muleFunk said:

andrewm7new said:

The Netflix documentary would bring Prince back into the public consciousness and I would certainly like to see it as it is.

Surely there must be some way to edit it to assuage some of the concerns that the estate has , I would certainly watch it if it was nothing but performance footage.

It was imagined as a biography and I am uncertain that concept could ever be realised with so little or no input from Prince (unavoidable). As it stands it is what everyone else glimpsed combined and can only be viewed though that lens.

The fandom is a strange beast and would be very difficult to come up with material that would energise and intrigue lifers like me and still tickle the interest of the "really loved purple rain, never dived deeper crowd"

[Edited 11/18/24 19:12pm]

Toure is literally trending on Instagram regarding the documentary and details of what's inside and focusing on Mayte being 16 and Prince being her legal guardian and every other post is about how creepy that was and how horrible he is. Mind you this is the same person who wrote a book gushing about his genius years ago.

Touré, you mean that guy? https://www.reddit.com/r/...s_that_he/

bozojones said:

It has been over a year since the last SDE. The estate has given us zero new music, zero plans for new music, and zero meaningful communication with the fans whatsoever. Londell and Charles have stubbornly refused to listen to any criticism or feedback, no matter how politely given. All they care about is shilling Prince's name and image for quick and easy cash, his musical legacy be damned.

Meanwhile, fan discussion sites are either dead aside from a handful of grouchy old-timers (a la this place), or full of surface level discussion about the same old handful of topics. The long time fans are shrinking in numbers, and the estate has no plan to turn newer generations onto his music to preserve Prince's artistic legacy. It feels like we're all witnessing the dying gasps of the Prince fandom in real time. It was fun while it lasted.

I'm 17!! I love Prince and actually got a few of my friends into him as well 💜

muleFunk said:

nayroo2002 said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

muleFunk said:

Toure is literally trending on Instagram regarding the documentary and details of what's inside and focusing on Mayte being 16 and Prince being her legal guardian and every other post is about how creepy that was and how horrible he is. Mind you this is the same person who wrote a book gushing about his genius years ago.

His TikTok video is trending and the comments are all negative https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTYjKRC2j/

Don't know who is this weirdo, but he sounds very hyped when basically he ain't saying anything that's not on Mayte's book, which been out for ages already.