https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2S_c5jNM3A

Gooddoctor23 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2S_c5jNM3A

Without Prince amassing the assets that make up the estate, there would be no Netflix documentary about Prince. If Prince can be the subject of public scrutiny, why can't the director and the subjects that participated in the documentary be held to the same scrutiny. This controversy is an indictment on the director and the public's need for salaciousness.

Why didn't you post this in the existing thread?

Thanks for the no-clicky linky

Oh no, another hour-long bitch session

[Edited 9/24/24 7:49am]

So, i'm going to state an unpopular opinion....could it not be that Londell and Charles are working sincerely to limit damage to Prince's reputation. Sure, they may be as motivated by securing future revenue by not allowing Prince to be dragged through the mud but, whatever, it all goes to the same thing. I have heard from a few people on podcasts and unofficially that they got a feeling Erza was painting a negative picture. From the Jon Bream interview, I'm thinking Erza is actually trying to make a sober straight documentary but, in today's day and age, Prince could be tarred and feathured.

JoeyCococo said:

So, i'm going to state an unpopular opinion....could it not be that Londell and Charles are working sincerely to limit damage to Prince's reputation. Sure, they may be as motivated by securing future revenue by not allowing Prince to be dragged through the mud but, whatever, it all goes to the same thing. I have heard from a few people on podcasts and unofficially that they got a feeling Erza was painting a negative picture. From the Jon Bream interview, I'm thinking Erza is actually trying to make a sober straight documentary but, in today's day and age, Prince could be tarred and feathured.

People here and elsewhere have continuously hammered home the point that Prince is not going to get "cancelled" in the long run because of a documentary that shows his flaws alongside his positive traits. The only celebrities who truly get "cancelled" are living folks like Cosby, Weinstein, R. Kelly, and P. Diddy who have a verifiable history of sexually abusing many people, some of them being underaged.

Beyond that, there are countless celebs who have been accused of worse behavior than Prince, or even straight up admitted to worse behavior, and still have successful careers or dedicated fanbases - Michael Jackson, Chris Brown, David Bowie, Johnny Depp, Elvis, Anthony Kiedis, Kanye West, nearly any popular notable rockstar from the 1960s-1970s... the list goes on.

At worst, a small subset of people will performatively yell about Prince's misdeeds on the internet for a few days, get bored, and then move on to the next thing. The world will keep turning and people will continue to like Prince's music. Londell and Charles are either laughably paranoid or disingenuous in their reasons for blocking this documentary, and by holding everything up, they're doing more to hurt their own business than a documentary ever would.

bashraka said:

Gooddoctor23 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2S_c5jNM3A

Without Prince amassing the assets that make up the estate, there would be no Netflix documentary about Prince. If Prince can be the subject of public scrutiny, why can't the director and the subjects that participated in the documentary be held to the same scrutiny. This controversy is an indictment on the director and the public's need for salaciousness.

"The public's need for salaciousness" - I disagree, people just want to learn about who Prince actually was. The good and the bad

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

strawberryletter23 said:

bashraka said:

Without Prince amassing the assets that make up the estate, there would be no Netflix documentary about Prince. If Prince can be the subject of public scrutiny, why can't the director and the subjects that participated in the documentary be held to the same scrutiny. This controversy is an indictment on the director and the public's need for salaciousness.

"The public's need for salaciousness" - I disagree, people just want to learn about who Prince actually was. The good and the bad

Are you serious? Are you not remotely familiar with the world we live in? The public loves slacious stories. That's what sells. Always has, always will. That's such an obvious fact I can't believe anyone would challenge it.

Perhaps you're looking at this super narrowly, in terms of what Prince fans hope to learn about their idol. In that narrow view, you'd be correct: they just want the facts. But a Netflix documentary goes out to a much broader audience. And on the whole, the public loves salacious stories.

RODSERLING said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

There might be some sincerity in protecting his rep and real concern that it would make him look bad. How warranted it is though, idk. Some of it would be a blow to the prince image, legend, mythology and mystique. But mayte wrote her book already. Its already known that he did some uhh questionable things in relationships. Ive a feeling the estate are just on a power trip regardless.

Mayte 's book, almost nobody read it. Netflix has millions of viewers. A 9 hours documentary is something unusual, so it would get far more attention by the medias

Only a small portion of those "millions" are going to watch the entirety of a 9 hour Prince documentary, and an even smaller percentage of those viewers will completely turn on Prince because it shows his flaws as a human being.

Y'all are overestimating the impact this will have on Prince's legacy and its profitability to an insane degree.

bozojones said:

lurker316 said:

strawberryletter23 said:

"The public's need for salaciousness" - I disagree, people just want to learn about who Prince actually was. The good and the bad

Are you serious? Are you not remotely familiar with the world we live in? The public loves slacious stories. That's what sells. Always has, always will. That's such an obvious fact I can't believe anyone would challenge it.

Perhaps you're looking at this super narrowly, in terms of what Prince fans hope to learn about their idol. In that narrow view, you'd be correct: they just want the facts. But a Netflix documentary goes out to a much broader audience. And on the whole, the public loves salacious stories.

They also like stories about interesting complex people, who Prince was. I see nothing inherently wrong with this doc being made and out there morally

I think it’s beyond lame their not releasing this doc . After hearing what the writer of The NY Times piece had to say on The Town podcast not only about the content but the quality of it , it’s a tragedy we may never see it . Totally ignoring the fake outrage from the you know who’s. If you need any more proof she said there's nothing on the doc that should delay its release and she's seen it twice. She also made the point she was not a Prince fan before she saw it but became one after so there you go.

Farfunknugin said:

I think it’s beyond lame their not releasing this doc . After hearing what the writer of The NY Times piece had to say on The Town podcast not only about the content but the quality of it , it’s a tragedy we may never see it . Totally ignoring the fake outrage from the you know who’s. If you need any more proof she said there's nothing on the doc that should delay its release and she's seen it twice. She also made the point she was not a Prince fan before she saw it but became one after so there you go.

The Estate is useless at this point.

Wake me when things change.

Farfunknugin said:

I think it’s beyond lame their not releasing this doc . After hearing what the writer of The NY Times piece had to say on The Town podcast not only about the content but the quality of it , it’s a tragedy we may never see it . Totally ignoring the fake outrage from the you know who’s. If you need any more proof she said there's nothing on the doc that should delay its release and she's seen it twice. She also made the point she was not a Prince fan before she saw it but became one after so there you go.

That news bums me out and pisses me off.

These discussions you can always tell a solid percentage of the fanbase lives in "Prince land" 24/7.

Netflix makes watercooler programming that becomes pop culture and a staple of public discourse. Look at that Dahmer show for instance, that was like a niche, obscuro interest, now everyone and their step sister is a Dahmer expert.

Personally Prince is my #1 artist, but to Joe Six-Pack he's like the one-hit wonder version of MJ. Randos who have no attachment to Prince as an artist on any level will lap up the opportunity to tear down someone they consider an undeservedly upheld rando.

[Edited 9/30/24 22:09pm]

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Yeah but you are obsessed with the general public and under 35s and live in a world where they really matter. Its the same with all artists. Theres fans and then theres music lovers and then theres the general public. Who matter but not as much as you think. And they will always have opinions. Netflix make trash tv but they also commision prestige type content too. [Edited 9/30/24 22:13pm]

It's literally a Netflix pop doc, dude, not a Duane Tudahl-produced empircally-constructed self-financed independent documentary premiering to a standing ovation at Cannes.

Netflix's entire corporate infrastructure is designed for the general public and people under 35.

Meanwhile an entire subsection of Prince fans genuinely (genuinely) tries to argue that a mainstream juggernaut like Netflix spent copious amounts of cash for something they only expect Prince's dozens of fans to consume.

Focusing on the audience the Netflix special was actually made for, what a concept. 'Cause it certainly wasn't made for us.

[Edited 9/30/24 22:22pm]

"Prestige" content, almost missed that one. Please enlighten us of all this "prestige" content that isn't pre-2019.

The docs are actually the worst part of Netflix, bar none. The stupid intro where they have the interview subjects dramatically step to the interview chair, let out a heavy sigh and ask if the camera is running. Get an off-mic interviewer low in the mix "we're ready", "Okay, because this is.... some stuff that's never been mentioned--anywhere..." with the sweeping fades and subjects furrowing their brows.

It's the same lame doc every time.

WhisperingDandelions said:

"Prestige" content, almost missed that one. Please enlighten us of all this "prestige" content that isn't pre-2019.

The docs are actually the worst part of Netflix, bar none. The stupid intro where they have the interview subjects dramatically step to the interview chair, let out a heavy sigh and ask if the camera is running. Get an off-mic interviewer low in the mix "we're ready", "Okay, because this is.... some stuff that's never been mentioned--anywhere..." with the sweeping fades and subjects furrowing their brows.

It's the same lame doc every time.

I don't know, I'm kind of interested in seeing what a director who won an Oscar for his last Doc can do with a subject as interesting as Prince. I also think it can only win P some new fans in the process. The critiques don't warrant it to be shelved full stop, utterly ridiculous imo.

WhisperingDandelions said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

not a Duane Tudahl-produced empircally-constructed self-financed independent documentary premiering to a standing ovation at Cannes.

is this a doc in which apollonia claims to have written prince's songs and duane nods and agrees with anything she says? unfortunately we don't live in a world that's ready for that level of journalistic integrity. i guess we'll just have to live off of edelman's crumbs. or not.

WhisperingDandelions said:

I think we just need to keep an open mind on this.

If we haven't seen the documentary, there's no reason to assume worst intentions on the part of the director. He has a solid track record. I'd like to see it leaked and then make up my own mind. I have a feeling that'll happen eventually.

Is it possible that the Estate are sincerely trying to protect Prince's memory? Yes of course. Are they highly incentivized financially to do that anyway, even if that might put them at odds with the truth? Also yes. So we have to treat their response with some scepticism.

A good independent documentary needs a free editorial hand with this stuff. We've had enough years already to get used to the idea of Prince as a real person with flaws, and not the superhuman figure he presented himself as on-stage. I'd argue that it does his memory a disservice to bury the truth of who he really was.

nxx said:

I think we just need to keep an open mind on this.

If we haven't seen the documentary, there's no reason to assume worst intentions on the part of the director. He has a solid track record. I'd like to see it leaked and then make up my own mind. I have a feeling that'll happen eventually.

Is it possible that the Estate are sincerely trying to protect Prince's memory? Yes of course. Are they highly incentivized financially to do that anyway, even if that might put them at odds with the truth? Also yes. So we have to treat their response with some scepticism.

A good independent documentary needs a free editorial hand with this stuff. We've had enough years already to get used to the idea of Prince as a real person with flaws, and not the superhuman figure he presented himself as on-stage. I'd argue that it does his memory a disservice to bury the truth of who he really was.

I'm over the Estate, period.

i am now thinking this is not that diff this is from the last estate heads who didnt include extra loveable on the 1999 SDE for instance. they had the same reason, that it would be too controversial. this is just another instance of that, but with a film rather than princes music.

so basically,to sum things up....2024,which is the 40th Anniversary of Purple Rain,was supposed to be a "big year" for the fans but instead,it's been a year of disappointments and cancelled projects.