Mindbells9 said:

Kares said:

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Does Edelman have an iPad with the contents of the entire vault on it? Does he have armed guards?...

I was wondering the same thing

Don't blow things up people.

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None of us have seen the doc yet.
All these articles right now, about the via-via-jounalists stories, are (the only own created) bread and butter for the press (so far).

It's just the press eating each other.

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And, I have the utmost respect for J. Bream.

In my opinion, a true old-school journalist, who has always avoided all forms of exaggeration or thickening, and always puts the bottom line first.

Because, if you bring the facts right, it is stil so much better than making something up for the sake of hit-'n-run journalism.

MakeMillions is doing this only for this; "$$$$$$$", nothing else. That's what I think and feel in his tweets.

Spicer probably too, but I don't feel him enough, the way Londell tries to convince everyone of his overdramatic way of protecting Prince, so to speak, legitimately.

MikeMillions words never sound enough sincere, thoughfull, warm, or for the sake of art, legacy, or the persona Prince.

Not in my unfiltered factless hard opinion (towards them) anyways.

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I can hardly take the man seriously, let alone follow him for what he claims to be fighting for.
Prince once threw him out, even named him (in a serious) negatively way in a song.

Prince did this kind of shit always for a (personal) reason, before you were mentioned in one of his lyrics... Nuff said?

djThunderfunk said:

databank said:

.

We're all familiar with Jill's story and while it did upset most of us when we first heard it, it didn't ruin Prince's image for us because we know this incident was very atypical of him and the only one of its kind ever reported by anyone. Whatever possessed him that day wasn't something he made a habit of doing, and he probably wasn't proud of it. We also know that by all other accounts, Prince was always depicted as being respectful towards women, perhaps insensitive and manipulative at times, but never, ever physically or sexually abusive.

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Similarly, the homophobic incident with Wendy & Lisa was upsetting to us at the time, but we also know that except for his brief period as a fanatic Jeovah's Witness, Prince was mostly a progressive and liberal person who wrote Uptown's lyrics, spent years fooling the world into believing he was gay and usually didn't care about his collaborators' sexual orientation.

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Finally, most of us accept the "rape" lyrics in Extraloveable and Lust U Always as sheer works of fiction, not Prince voicing personal opinions, let alone pro-rape propaganda, and we know that Prince's lyrics were, in their vast majority, feminist, empowering women and calling out any kind of abuse towards them.

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Now that's us: people who are very familiar with Prince's life and work in all their complexity. Yet, the mere fact that this thread has partly turned into a debate about whether Prince could possibly be justified hitting a woman if he was hitting back shows how sensitive the topic is, even among (mostly) old white cis men who have heard that story before. And there were more heated debates in the past about whether to release Extraloveable or not in this very community, with fans nearly calling other fans monsters for wanting those songs to come out unedited.

.

But again, this is us. We know Prince could be a prick at times, we know he was often insensitive towards his friends, companions and collaborators, we know he could speak nonsense at times (the chemtrails episode is even more embarassing in the "post-truth" era than it was at the time), but we also know what kind of background he was coming from psychologically speaking and, most importantly, we know he wasn't a violent person, nor an alt. right fascist, nor a sexual offender. So we're not going to throw his whole life and discography into a garbage bin because of a few messed-up episodes that aren't representative of who he usually was, what he usually did and what his work stood for.

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But so far, only hardcore Prince fans know about the Jill Jones and Wendy & Lisa episodes (and the unreleased songs' lyrics). The Netflix documentary would change this by publicizing those events to hundreds of thousands, if not millions of new people. People who know very little about Prince. People who will not have any contextual understanding of Prince and those events besides the context provided by the documentary itself (admitting they watch the whole 9 hours of it and not just some random episode, or that they don't just read online articles merely repeating the most sulfurous stories for clickbait, or heard the story from a friend who only told them about these episodes). Among these people, there will necessarily be radical online influencers who will certainly try and launch a cancel campaign against Prince and his work, because that's what those people do, and let's be honest, sometimes one has the feeling they can't really tell the difference between a Harvey Wenstein who raped dozens of women and a woman who tries to help a disabled person by picking up stuff they let fall on the floor in a supermarket (I've seen people trashed for doing that on video, because they were "mistreating" disabled people by assuming they needed help). We've all seen the stories. We're all careful about what we say on social media now, because even if you're progressive and share the "woke" ideology yourself, saying the one wrong thing that displeases the one wrong person may end-up in a major shitstorm and have lasting consequences on your reputation, life or career.

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Now I'm not trying to say the Estate is right in what they're doing or that the documentary's makers are wrong in that they're doing. I'm 100% in favor of releasing Extraloveable and Lust U Always as such, and I'm 100% in favor of educating people about Prince's work and career even if it involves showing his flaws and dark side, which is necessary to any balanced portrait of him. But I can understand why businessmen whose only preoccupation is to "make millions" off Prince's catalogue would be happy to keep his reputation untainted and scared of a small, yet very vocal radical online community of "woke" influencers.

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For all the criticism he had to cope with in his lifetime, Prince has mostly had an aura of holiness with the general public ever since the late 2000s, and even more since he passed. Hell, South Park never made fun of him, which says a lot about his credibility as a person and as an artist: if Parker and Stone didn't think Prince was full of shit, it probably means he was a saint It's somewhat logical the people in charge of sowing the benefits of Prince's work want to keep things that way at all costs. And most importantly, Netflix and the documentary makers were totally naive in thinking they could give the Estate a contractual veto and keep their editorial independence. Of course they couldn't. They should have known better.

I'm not saying any of this is wrong, but, it's out there now right? These articles are being read far and wide, not just by us. The cat's out of the bag already. Let's not worry about the overly sensitive, their days of cancelling people for offending them is soooo over.

Yeah? The canceling movement may have slowed down, I don't follow this closely so maybe you're right, IDK.

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As others said in other replies, many other Black artists have been less than exemplary with women yet their memory is pretty much left alone, but I thought maybe the likes of James Brown and so are too ancient to be of interest to the woke community, while Prince is still much more in the spotlight, IDK.

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Also, not sure the "woke" community is too interested in canceling dead people, they're very much into punishing people, so that would only work with living people, right?

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As for the cat being out of the bag, IDK. With the "woke" community I guess the New York Times is enough. With the general public, I just looked at the numbers and we're talking about some 9M subscribers for the NY Times vs. 278M for Netflix. Netflix has a much, much wider audience worldwide.

Strawberrylova123 said:

More meltdowns https://x.com/londellmcmi...us26qn0pRQ At least he confirmed that the Netflix contract is holding up vault releases https://x.com/londellmcmi...us26qn0pRQ

"There is much more than what you know and some matters are legally confidential."

The secrecy of this corporate culture is so tiresome.

I have no idea what "matters" are involved here, but we already had to go thru it so much with people involved in the Estate always saying they can't say much because of NDAs. Why should their be NDAs when it comes to Prince's posthumous releases? Why can't they be transparent about what's in the vault and what they do with it? How could this harm their business?

I can understand Prince having collaborators signing NDAs to protect his privacy when he was with us. I can understand Marvel Studios having people signing NDAs in order to avoid spoilers and leaks. But what is there to protect or spoil when it comes to the vault? The only impression those "legally confidential" matters give the community is that they try and hide fishy stuff like the frankensteining of Originals. Transparency would be the best way to gain the fandom's trust.

Making the vault's inventory public would be so useful, for example. Knowing what Prince left behind would just make fans even more hungry for it, not harm the business.

databank said:

First of all saying they are "taking away from his legacy" is insane. You cannot take away from what he was as a musician and player and singer, performer, writer, activist, whatever. He was human and did good and did bad, he was a comlicated person, and guess what THEY ALL WERE. John Lennon lived for peace and love and unity and according to Julian Lennon, he never was witness to that kind of a man as a father, so he preached one way and lived another at least for those days. Elton John musical genius has given more to charity than anyone probably, spent alot of times being a prick to people. John Mellencamp amazing musician and humanatarian but as he even admits I am a bastard and scumbag many days. So who's view of PRINCE will change? The man is dead for over eight years, there is a big gap there where most people growing up now don't even know the man outside of one or two albums. If someone wanted to do "damage" to the man the time for this documentary would have been in the 90's when all the world was against him and thought he was nuts. But a netflix documentary shown or leaked whatever it is, almost a decade after he has died and lets be real he had really fallen off the map since 2011 which is when many say the "fall" in health started.

databank said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

More meltdowns https://x.com/londellmcmi...us26qn0pRQ At least he confirmed that the Netflix contract is holding up vault releases https://x.com/londellmcmi...us26qn0pRQ

"There is much more than what you know and some matters are legally confidential."

The secrecy of this corporate culture is so tiresome.

I have no idea what "matters" are involved here, but we already had to go thru it so much with people involved in the Estate always saying they can't say much because of NDAs. Why should their be NDAs when it comes to Prince's posthumous releases? Why can't they be transparent about what's in the vault and what they do with it? How could this harm their business?

I can understand Prince having collaborators signing NDAs to protect his privacy when he was with us. I can understand Marvel Studios having people signing NDAs in order to avoid spoilers and leaks. But what is there to protect or spoil when it comes to the vault? The only impression those "legally confidential" matters give the community is that they try and hide fishy stuff like the frankensteining of Originals. Transparency would be the best way to gain the fandom's trust.

Making the vault's inventory public would be so useful, for example. Knowing what Prince left behind would just make fans even more hungry for it, not harm the business.

I agree.All of this secrecy and lack of communication with the fan community is getting tiresome and really annoying.

Ya betta WAKE UP, Stella

RODSERLING said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

You haven't seen any elvis biopics im guessing. Or jerry lee lewis. Or straight outta compton on nwa, whose dr dre was famous for physical abuse. All diff stories tbh, but none were shining knights in their romantic relationships.

Elvis is Elvis. He s is dead such a long time ago... Jerry Lee Lewis is a minor artist, is there one or two fan somewhere? NWA, that s US hip hop, they rely on violence in their music to sell, so nobody expect them to be nice little rabbits in private. All these biopics didn't need to greenlighted by their estate to be released.

Jerry Lee Lewis was not a minor artist in his heyday!

SoulAlive said:

databank said:

"There is much more than what you know and some matters are legally confidential."

The secrecy of this corporate culture is so tiresome.

I have no idea what "matters" are involved here, but we already had to go thru it so much with people involved in the Estate always saying they can't say much because of NDAs. Why should their be NDAs when it comes to Prince's posthumous releases? Why can't they be transparent about what's in the vault and what they do with it? How could this harm their business?

I can understand Prince having collaborators signing NDAs to protect his privacy when he was with us. I can understand Marvel Studios having people signing NDAs in order to avoid spoilers and leaks. But what is there to protect or spoil when it comes to the vault? The only impression those "legally confidential" matters give the community is that they try and hide fishy stuff like the frankensteining of Originals. Transparency would be the best way to gain the fandom's trust.

Making the vault's inventory public would be so useful, for example. Knowing what Prince left behind would just make fans even more hungry for it, not harm the business.

I agree.All of this secrecy and lack of communication with the fan community is getting tiresome and really annoying.

The big secret is that there are no secrets, because the estate has no game plan. There is nothing confidential under wraps for them to avoid spoiling, they just want to give the illusion that there is to keep fans off their backs.

PennyPurple said:

RODSERLING said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said: Elvis is Elvis. He s is dead such a long time ago... Jerry Lee Lewis is a minor artist, is there one or two fan somewhere? NWA, that s US hip hop, they rely on violence in their music to sell, so nobody expect them to be nice little rabbits in private. All these biopics didn't need to greenlighted by their estate to be released.

Jerry Lee Lewis was not a minor artist in his heyday!

also still well known as a cultural/musical figure in the 90s when the film starring dennis quaid (and winona ryder, i.e. was not a tiny little obscure production) was released.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

PennyPurple said:

Jerry Lee Lewis was not a minor artist in his heyday!

also still well known as a cultural/musical figure in the 90s when the film starring dennis quaid (and winona ryder, i.e. was not a tiny little obscure production) was released.

remember it's Rodserling again, so don't take it all too seriously.
he probably wasn't even born when that movie came out

RODSERLING said:

I just shown that nobody cared about JB, Miles Davis and Jerry Lee Lewis. Their fanbase is about zilch, or may I just say for Miles that his audience is not ready to spend money on this.

I'm a huge Miles Davis fan. I haven't seen "Miles Ahead" and have zero interest in seeing it. It looks like a weird and average movie. At this point, I'm only interested in the music, so can't wait for "Miles Davis Quintet 1963/64: The Bootleg Series, Vol. 8" in November.

(Note that they're releasing a 6-CD box set of mainly previously unreleased material for an artist who has been dead for 33 years and who was (way) less popular than Prince. Again: nobody's getting rich with those releases. Just saying.)

Anyway, comparing Prince and Miles Davis is a bit silly. Prince is known by way more people, if only for a couple of songs.

JorisE73 said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

also still well known as a cultural/musical figure in the 90s when the film starring dennis quaid (and winona ryder, i.e. was not a tiny little obscure production) was released.

remember it's Rodserling again, so don't take it all too seriously.
he probably wasn't even born when that movie came out

Nah, Jerry Lee Lewis really is just a minor artist

olb99 said:

RODSERLING said:

I just shown that nobody cared about JB, Miles Davis and Jerry Lee Lewis. Their fanbase is about zilch, or may I just say for Miles that his audience is not ready to spend money on this.

I'm a huge Miles Davis fan. I haven't seen "Miles Ahead" and have zero interest in seeing it. It looks like a weird and average movie. At this point, I'm only interested in the music, so can't wait for "Miles Davis Quintet 1963/64: The Bootleg Series, Vol. 8" in November.

(Note that they're releasing a 6-CD box set of mainly previously unreleased material for an artist who has been dead for 33 years and who was (way) less popular than Prince. Again: nobody's getting rich with those releases. Just saying.)

Anyway, comparing Prince and Miles Davis is a bit silly. Prince is known by way more people, if only for a couple of songs.

Right on!!

It's like, why would all these big artists be selling off their catalogs for millions the past few years. Are the buyers stupid? Don't they know artists catalogs don't make money? They should come here and learn the truth before they waste any more of their money on worthless music catalogs.

databank said:

olb99 said:

RODSERLING said:

I just shown that nobody cared about JB, Miles Davis and Jerry Lee Lewis. Their fanbase is about zilch, or may I just say for Miles that his audience is not ready to spend money on this.

I'm a huge Miles Davis fan. I haven't seen "Miles Ahead" and have zero interest in seeing it. It looks like a weird and average movie. At this point, I'm only interested in the music, so can't wait for "Miles Davis Quintet 1963/64: The Bootleg Series, Vol. 8" in November.

.
I'm a huge Miles fan too and just saying 'Miles Ahead' is a good movie, at least I enjoyed it. Don Cheadle is always great. You should give it a chance. It doesn't matter to me that the story is fictional, just as it didn't stop me from loving 'I'm Not There', a great film about Dylan.

With PRINCE nothing was set up so that is why everyone is scrambling around. I mean WHY are people so shocked that releases do not come with ease and seem more organized when coming from the Prince world of organization? I mean y'all remember 1-800-New Funk and orders being written on scrap paper and some people still waiting for Crystal Ball. And now we here "why so unorganized?" Really be thankful anything has come out at this point the way he did things, I doubt for a second PRINCE was a person that organized things like say a Neil Young who seemed to be a manic about lists and labels and boxes and so freaking organized I wished I liked the guys music like that because it would be great but I never was into him for the most part so him releasing these huge sets doesnt do anything for me but just wonder "why couldnt Prince be organized"

it doesnt really matter that prince was a bad record label owner-manager (by and large).

the last estate seemed to do a good job of cataloguing it all.

im sure that that is mostly done, and is now in a state where they know what they have to work with.

the fact is that prince is no longer here so any current disorganisation falls at the feet of the current estate management, prince has nothing to do with what they are doing.

however, i think its like they are trying to BE prince, do it like he would have done it, tweet like he might have, etc etc, when there is no real reason for this, as they are not prince, and the idea that honouring his legacy/mysteriousness/inscruitability/unpredictability = poor release planning, bizarro tweeting, terrible PR strategies (even accounting for the fact that they are allowed to tweet personally separate from the main prince account, i suppose).

basically, stop behaving like prince please. its not necessary. prince did prince. i dont expect anyone else to, esp as it looks childish, dumb, and unprofessional coming from anyone else (i mean it looked like that for him too at times, but you cut prince more slack).

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Ndorphinmachina said:

databank said:

"There is much more than what you know and some matters are legally confidential."

The secrecy of this corporate culture is so tiresome.

I have no idea what "matters" are involved here, but we already had to go thru it so much with people involved in the Estate always saying they can't say much because of NDAs. Why should their be NDAs when it comes to Prince's posthumous releases? Why can't they be transparent about what's in the vault and what they do with it? How could this harm their business?

I can understand Prince having collaborators signing NDAs to protect his privacy when he was with us. I can understand Marvel Studios having people signing NDAs in order to avoid spoilers and leaks. But what is there to protect or spoil when it comes to the vault? The only impression those "legally confidential" matters give the community is that they try and hide fishy stuff like the frankensteining of Originals. Transparency would be the best way to gain the fandom's trust.

Making the vault's inventory public would be so useful, for example. Knowing what Prince left behind would just make fans even more hungry for it, not harm the business.

Let's be honest, being the secretive gatekeeper of the vault is the only thing that grants Llondel the sliver of a sliver of fame that he has. I don't see him wanting to give that up. If people could look to Princevault rather than the Estate, they absolutely would. He knows that.

The secrecy was there (and possibly worse) before the new regime took over and hopefully has nothing to do with them competing with Princevault — though I've heard rumors that behind the scenes, the Estate has recently been terrorizing or indirectly threatening some fans websites, despite said websites not doing anything wrong.

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I so far have never heard from the Estate, but if it's true that others have, it's really pathetic given that (again under the old regime, but though I haven't checked, I guess it's still there), when the Estate opened the official Prince website some years back, we immediately noticed they had copied and pasted text straight from Princevault without giving them any credit, which is, well, infrigement of their Creative Commons rules and, most importantly, a really, really nasty way of treating the fandom

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On the other hand, it's not like the Estate offers an alternative to Princevault or any other of the important fansites, so I can't imagine they should wish to withdraw information for this specific reason. I have no idea why all the NDEs and secrecy, what the intention behind it is, how it is believed it protects their business from harm. Maybe there isn't even a clear intention, maybe it's just a by default corporate reflex even when it's useless.

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The Estate would be better off endorsing and supporting fans initiatives IMHO. That's how you build a faithful and supportive community (which is something some artists and IP-owning companies have understood and put in practice very well).

fredmagnus said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

He did permit the pr sde, underrated here, which says something.

Didn't he only oversee the terrible "remaster" of the original album? All of the bonus deluxe tracks were compiled by Warner after Prince's death.

I mean with the way things are going with the likes of Puffy and R Kelly and others, I doubt highly something so bad about prince is close to this stuff

master said: