JorisE73 said:

From 2017 until June of this year, there have been 20 Frank Zappa *multi disc* box sets. 20!! Deluxe editions containing studio sessions, multiple concerts, demos, alternates, etc. Hopefully one day we'll get that lucky. Surely, Prince's vault has way more material than even Zappa's legendary vault! His fans are getting at least 3 box sets a year for the past 7 years or so. Frank Zappa's estate has proven that if you give the fans what they want, they'll spend the money to make the vault a profitable money maker for years to come. There's more than enough material in Prince's vault to satisfy new fans, casual fans, hardcore lifelong fans, completists, etc. JorisE73 said:

Yeah, that! ^

It's so simple, why complicate it? It's like Thorin's greed for gold. So entranced by it, won't share it. Confused and weakened by it. Just arrogantly sittin on it, getting a self indulgent high from it, and defeating the whole purpose of its existence. Until hopefully someone slaps some sense into whoever is actually "in charge" here. Okay.. I'm done now.. lol

happyshopper said:

olb99 said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if this IS the bootleg. The official one would either be just the album, or the SDE… and this is neither.

.

My post which started this thread contains a mere 68 words. You could have read those.

.

Instead you posted this nonsense.

Mindbells9 said:

From 2017 until June of this year, there have been 20 Frank Zappa *multi disc* box sets. 20!! Deluxe editions containing studio sessions, multiple concerts, demos, alternates, etc. Hopefully one day we'll get that lucky. Surely, Prince's vault has way more material than even Zappa's legendary vault! His fans are getting at least 3 box sets a year for the past 7 years or so. Frank Zappa's estate has proven that if you give the fans what they want, they'll spend the money to make the vault a profitable money maker for years to come. There's more than enough material in Prince's vault to satisfy new fans, casual fans, hardcore lifelong fans, completists, etc.

.

Earlier this week Lonnie invoked God to support him for the upcoming days, i.e. the Celebration. Imagine looking at that weak-ass event and going "oh lordy, this is a lot of work I gotta do". Now compare that to people who organize festivals that have 50,000-100,000 visitors per day, with a dozen stages and hundreds of bands and numerous vendors etc.

.

No wonder those amateurs managed to only "release" three frikking singles since the release of the D&P SDE eight months ago.

.

These fools can only handle a single major release per year. And note that this year's PR SDE is likely an ongoing project started by the previous regime, much like the D&P SDE was basically the work of the previous regime.

Mindbells9 said:

From 2017 until June of this year, there have been 20 Frank Zappa *multi disc* box sets. 20!! Deluxe editions containing studio sessions, multiple concerts, demos, alternates, etc. Hopefully one day we'll get that lucky. Surely, Prince's vault has way more material than even Zappa's legendary vault! His fans are getting at least 3 box sets a year for the past 7 years or so. Frank Zappa's estate has proven that if you give the fans what they want, they'll spend the money to make the vault a profitable money maker for years to come. There's more than enough material in Prince's vault to satisfy new fans, casual fans, hardcore lifelong fans, completists, etc.

Thanks, Mindbells9. It's refreshing to see a Prince fan not repeating the usual nonsense that the "market" can only absorb one box set a year.

olb99 said:

love2thenines2003 said:

olb99 said:

Thanks, Mindbells9. It's refreshing to see a Prince fan not repeating the usual nonsense that the "market" can only absorb one box set a year.

We have too much expectations as fans IMO about what the Estate can do or not! But it seems that The Estate can't do what they desire to do because these cost too much money to manage the immense material left by Prince! [Edited 6/20/24 2:32am]

You're saying two things:

1) We're asking too much from the Estate.

2) It costs too much money to release more material? Or "manage" that material, whatever that means.

Some people also say that: 3) It's good that they don't release more previously unreleased material, because we need time to absorb the music. (Or something to that effect.)

Re. 1): If someone is incompetent, we can just accept that incompetence, rationalize it, and do nothing. Or we can ask that things improve, report mistakes, etc. I don't see how Prince fans resigning themselves to that incompetence and not asking for more material to be released, less mistakes to be made, etc. will achieve anything.

Re. 2): I really don't understand that argument. Just stop releasing expensive vinyl box sets, with booklets, official podcasts, etc. then. How come many (sometimes huge) box sets are released for other artists? Did the 20-CD "Complete Miles Davis at Montreux" box set bring in millions for the Miles Davis Estate? I don't think so. It happened because some people were passionate about releasing that material.

Re. 3): That's also a weird argument. Many Prince fans are fans specifically because he recorded so much music. We have hundreds or maybe thousands of bootlegs, and it seems to me that many Prince fans were happy to have them. Why complain now that the Estate could "flood the market" with too many releases? That's nonsense. You don't have to buy everything anyway.

olb99 said:

Mindbells9 said:

From 2017 until June of this year, there have been 20 Frank Zappa *multi disc* box sets. 20!! Deluxe editions containing studio sessions, multiple concerts, demos, alternates, etc. Hopefully one day we'll get that lucky. Surely, Prince's vault has way more material than even Zappa's legendary vault! His fans are getting at least 3 box sets a year for the past 7 years or so. Frank Zappa's estate has proven that if you give the fans what they want, they'll spend the money to make the vault a profitable money maker for years to come. There's more than enough material in Prince's vault to satisfy new fans, casual fans, hardcore lifelong fans, completists, etc.

Thanks, Mindbells9. It's refreshing to see a Prince fan not repeating the usual nonsense that the "market" can only absorb one box set a year.

Exactly. Some estates have high ambitions while others are just incompetent or just focus at making money without any passion for the legacy they're supposed to promote.

fredmagnus said:

olb99 said:

Thanks, Mindbells9. It's refreshing to see a Prince fan not repeating the usual nonsense that the "market" can only absorb one box set a year.

Exactly. Some estates have high ambitions while others are just incompetent or just focus at making money without any passion for the legacy they're supposed to promote.

THe Estate (Mc Millan/Spicer) seems does not have the means of their ambition to promote the immense unpublished material to manage and archive without taking into account the dissensions and tensions (even future trial) between the different actors according to certain sources!

It would be wise to consider that all fans try to propose solutions, constructive ideas or even crowdfunding, just who to contact...how? This seems easier on paper than in reality, if this situation continues to persist we will all be losers, many of us (me too at one point) criticized the Estate too much gratuitously without proposing solutions!

love2thenines2003 said:

fredmagnus said:

Exactly. Some estates have high ambitions while others are just incompetent or just focus at making money without any passion for the legacy they're supposed to promote.

THe Estate (Mc Millan/Spicer) seems does not have the means of their ambition to promote the immense unpublished material to manage and archive without taking into account the dissensions and tensions (even future trial) between the different actors according to certain sources!

It would be wise to consider that all fans try to propose solutions, constructive ideas or even crowdfunding, just who to contact...how? This seems easier on paper than in reality, if this situation continues to persist we will all be losers, many of us (me too at one point) criticized the Estate too much gratuitously without proposing solutions!

It's not on the fans to propose concrete solutions, because we're not the ones in charge. All we're asking for is that Londell and company resign and let someone else take over who does know how to do the damn job. And it's really generous to claim that Londell wants to release more music when there are multiple assembled projects that he could have released at any time. The man doesn't give a shit about Prince's unreleased materials or the fans who want to hear them, he's content selling Celebration tickets and merch to upper class fans with disposable income.

love2thenines2003 said:

THe Estate (Mc Millan/Spicer) seems does not have the means of their ambition to promote the immense unpublished material to manage and archive without taking into account the dissensions and tensions (even future trial) between the different actors according to certain sources!

Ok, so if I understand you correctly, you're saying that McMillan/Spicer would like to release more material, but that they can't because of the ongoing court case with the Nelson family? No disrespect intended, but that's quite hard to believe. Why are they able to release 2 new mixes of Musicology songs then? What about the Celebration? They're doing things. Just not many of them (2 previously unreleased tracks, if we're generous, in 6-7 months...). Also, what "sources" are you talking about?

[Edited 6/20/24 7:35am]

They could rerelease the Black Album with little xtra cost. Just remaster it, no extras, release it on CD & vinyl. Hell, even make it a limited release again like it was in 94, it would sell out even faster that way.

This could be done in time for the 30th anniversary of the release at a minimum cost.

What? Not BIG enough?

Vinyl releases for all the albums that have never had them before? Also a no-brainer.

Not everything has to be a deluxe or super deluxe event.

djThunderfunk said:

olb99 said:

love2thenines2003 said:

olb99 said: We have too much expectations as fans IMO about what the Estate can do or not! But it seems that The Estate can't do what they desire to do because these cost too much money to manage the immense material left by Prince! [Edited 6/20/24 2:32am]

You're saying two things:

1) We're asking too much from the Estate.

2) It costs too much money to release more material? Or "manage" that material, whatever that means.

Some people also say that: 3) It's good that they don't release more previously unreleased material, because we need time to absorb the music. (Or something to that effect.)

Re. 1): If someone is incompetent, we can just accept that incompetence, rationalize it, and do nothing. Or we can ask that things improve, report mistakes, etc. I don't see how Prince fans resigning themselves to that incompetence and not asking for more material to be released, less mistakes to be made, etc. will achieve anything.

Re. 2): I really don't understand that argument. Just stop releasing expensive vinyl box sets, with booklets, official podcasts, etc. then. How come many (sometimes huge) box sets are released for other artists? Did the 20-CD "Complete Miles Davis at Montreux" box set bring in millions for the Miles Davis Estate? I don't think so. It happened because some people were passionate about releasing that material.

Re. 3): That's also a weird argument. Many Prince fans are fans specifically because he recorded so much music. We have hundreds or maybe thousands of bootlegs, and it seems to me that many Prince fans were happy to have them. Why complain now that the Estate could "flood the market" with too many releases? That's nonsense. You don't have to buy everything anyway.

This all day! Olb gets it.

RODSERLING said:

djThunderfunk said:

They could rerelease the Black Album with little xtra cost. Just remaster it, no extras, release it on CD & vinyl. Hell, even make it a limited release again like it was in 94, it would sell out even faster that way.

This could be done in time for the 30th anniversary of the release at a minimum cost.

What? Not BIG enough?

Vinyl releases for all the albums that have never had them before? Also a no-brainer.

Not everything has to be a deluxe or super deluxe event.

Vinyl killed Prince SDE. At least the way the Prince estate ( since 2016) envisionned the posthumous releases

I'm not sure I'm following what you mean.

The vinyl SDEs, 3 so far, are items which will probably forever be on my want list, but never on my shelf. The price point, while fair considering the content and the prices of individual LPs, is just too much for me to justify unless I fell into a stupid amount of money.

The vinyl re-releases of individual albums however, even massive ones like Emancipation 6LP, are terrific. I couldn't be happier having albums on vinyl that were never on the format before, like C&D, Emancipation, The Truth, TV:OF4S, RITJF, Musicology, 3121, etc.... And I for one and happy to to finally have one I missed the first time around, D&P, and hoping for the other I missed, Black Album.

Any others that never saw vinyl, CB, Newpower Soul (don't tell me it doesn't count), NEWS, 20Ten, Hitandrun 1 & 2, etc... or that never saw physical at all like the NPGMC albums, would be day one purchases for me.

Vinyl sells these days, & RSD exclusives & First Day Releases are very poplular as well as help entice those who might not always go out of their way to pick up a new Prince release.

djThunderfunk said:

RODSERLING said:

The SDE were constructed around, and often delayed, because of the vynil format ( manufacturing, etc).

In the end, it's an never-ending debate. Some people absolutely love vinyls. They will buy anything, as long as it's on vinyl. Black vinyl. 180-gram vinyl. Purple vinyl. Bootleg vinyls of audience recordings. Anything. Who wants a yellow vinyl of the "Live! The Sacrifice Of Victor" VHS/LaserDisc? There, you can have it: https://www.discogs.com/r...-Of-Victor

Others only care about the music being released, even if it is on crappy 128-kbps MP3 files.

People can be anywhere on the spectrum between those two extremes.

I've personally stopped collecting physical releases 10-15 years ago, but I'm happy to pay for FLAC files. That's what I usually do.

The problem, as you said, is when this insane obsession with releasing everything on vinyl prevents the music from being released altogether. I hope it won't happen again.

olb99 said:

RODSERLING said:

djThunderfunk said:

I'm not sure I'm following what you mean.

The vinyl SDEs, 3 so far, are items which will probably forever be on my want list, but never on my shelf. The price point, while fair considering the content and the prices of individual LPs, is just too much for me to justify unless I fell into a stupid amount of money.

The vinyl re-releases of individual albums however, even massive ones like Emancipation 6LP, are terrific. I couldn't be happier having albums on vinyl that were never on the format before, like C&D, Emancipation, The Truth, TV:OF4S, RITJF, Musicology, 3121, etc.... And I for one and happy to to finally have one I missed the first time around, D&P, and hoping for the other I missed, Black Album.

Any others that never saw vinyl, CB, Newpower Soul (don't tell me it doesn't count), NEWS, 20Ten, Hitandrun 1 & 2, etc... or that never saw physical at all like the NPGMC albums, would be day one purchases for me.

Vinyl sells these days, & RSD exclusives & First Day Releases are very poplular as well as help entice those who might not always go out of their way to pick up a new Prince release.

The SDE were constructed around, and often delayed, because of the vynil format ( manufacturing, etc).

Aah, ok. Well, as I already explained, those are the one thing I could do without. Not that I don't want the SDEs on vinyl, I very much do. But unless some wonderful benefactor gifts them to me it's not happening. It wouldn't bother me if they stopped doing vinyl SDEs.

Everything else vinyl? Bring it on!!

olb99 said:

RODSERLING said:

The SDE were constructed around, and often delayed, because of the vynil format ( manufacturing, etc).

In the end, it's an never-ending debate. Some people absolutely love vinyls. They will buy anything, as long as it's on vinyl. Black vinyl. 180-gram vinyl. Purple vinyl. Bootleg vinyls of audience recordings. Anything. Who wants a yellow vinyl of the "Live! The Sacrifice Of Victor" VHS/LaserDisc? There, you can have it: https://www.discogs.com/r...-Of-Victor

Others only care about the music being released, even if it is on crappy 128-kbps MP3 files.

People can be anywhere on the spectrum between those two extremes.

I've personally stopped collecting physical releases 10-15 years ago, but I'm happy to pay for FLAC files. That's what I usually do.

The problem, as you said, is when this insane obsession with releasing everything on vinyl prevents the music from being released altogether. I hope it won't happen again.

Yeah, I see what you guys are saying.

Sounds like the only problem is vinyl SDEs. They're just too massive which affects my ability to afford and their ability to manufacture. So yeah, I vote for no more vinyl SDE, and for much more individual vinyl releases!!

RODSERLING said:

I stopped buying vinyls because I never heard a gain in quality compared to Cds. It s a cool object, but too heavy, and too restrictive ( you have to take good care of it, turning the sides each 20 minutes, crackles disturbing from the music, etc.)

3121 sounds better on vinyl. Emancipation too. It's why I want CB on vinyl. The CDs sound like crap on a stick.

djThunderfunk said:

RODSERLING said:

I stopped buying vinyls because I never heard a gain in quality compared to Cds. It s a cool object, but too heavy, and too restrictive ( you have to take good care of it, turning the sides each 20 minutes, crackles disturbing from the music, etc.)

3121 sounds better on vinyl. Emancipation too. It's why I want CB on vinyl. The CDs sound like crap on a stick.

USB stick?

djThunderfunk said:

olb99 said:

In the end, it's an never-ending debate. Some people absolutely love vinyls. They will buy anything, as long as it's on vinyl. Black vinyl. 180-gram vinyl. Purple vinyl. Bootleg vinyls of audience recordings. Anything. Who wants a yellow vinyl of the "Live! The Sacrifice Of Victor" VHS/LaserDisc? There, you can have it: https://www.discogs.com/r...-Of-Victor

Others only care about the music being released, even if it is on crappy 128-kbps MP3 files.

People can be anywhere on the spectrum between those two extremes.

I've personally stopped collecting physical releases 10-15 years ago, but I'm happy to pay for FLAC files. That's what I usually do.

The problem, as you said, is when this insane obsession with releasing everything on vinyl prevents the music from being released altogether. I hope it won't happen again.

Yeah, I see what you guys are saying.

Sounds like the only problem is vinyl SDEs. They're just too massive which affects my ability to afford and their ability to manufacture. So yeah, I vote for no more vinyl SDE, and for much more individual vinyl releases!!

I stopped collecting physical media too (and sold off most of mine) - but I will still buy Prince's stuff.

Having said that, I did not buy SOTT:SDE or D&P:SDE. They are way too out of my price range. I did buy PR:DE, 1999:SDE, P&M, Originals, W2A though.

nayroo2002 said:

djThunderfunk said:

3121 sounds better on vinyl. Emancipation too. It's why I want CB on vinyl. The CDs sound like crap on a stick.

USB stick?

Se7en said:

djThunderfunk said:

Yeah, I see what you guys are saying.

Sounds like the only problem is vinyl SDEs. They're just too massive which affects my ability to afford and their ability to manufacture. So yeah, I vote for no more vinyl SDE, and for much more individual vinyl releases!!

I stopped collecting physical media too (and sold off most of mine) - but I will still buy Prince's stuff.

Having said that, I did not buy SOTT:SDE or D&P:SDE. They are way too out of my price range. I did buy PR:DE, 1999:SDE, P&M, Originals, W2A though.

I didn't buy the Collector's Editions of P&M or Originals, got CD & LP of both. I felt the price point of the collector sets was too much for line notes that should be in EVERY version.

I got W2A Collector's Set, because they included the Blu. Couldn't pass on that.

olb99 said:

themanfromneptune said:

I can't say it is an exciting release...

Luckily for you it isn't a release.