funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Agreed, but great musician + great musician doesnt necessarily = great results [Edited 6/7/24 0:13am]

Not always. But a musician like Miles Davis regularly surrounded himself with great musicians and it worked pretty well for him (John Coltrane, Bill Evans, Wayne Shorter, and many more). It's not a coincidence Miles was (probably) more open to a collaboration than the other way round.

databank said:

olb99 said:

In the end, I see that as two sides of the same coin. Prince made exciting music, because he was so irrational (and, hence, frustrating). But, yeah, I have a lot of "what if" questions/scenarios in mind with him.

What if he had really embraced his "non-mainstream" side?

What if he had collaborated with great musicians? I mean, he employed a lot of good musicians, but when it came to people such as Miles Davis, he didn't know what to do.

Thinking about your post again, there was something that bugged me that I couldn't pinpoint, and it's really just a matter of scale, but I personally would phrase it one of these two ways:

.

- What if he had collaborated with other geniuses? I mean, he employed a lot of great musicians, but when it came to people such as Miles Davis, he didn't know what to do.

- What if he had collaborated with great artists? I mean, he employed a lot of good artists, but when it came to people such as Miles Davis, he didn't know what to do.

.

Because when it comes to technical skills, I think most of Prince's bandmembers were top of the game. But being on top of your game doesn't mean you're an important artist from a historical perspective, like Miles Davis was. Most of Prince's collaborators were amazing players, but none displayed an artistic vision -as concept makers, composers, arrangers and producers- that made them anywhere as historically important, influential or remarkable as Prince. And I mean no disrespect by saying this. Most were remarkable musicians, songwriters, arrangers, producers, etc., but none were in Prince's or Miles' league when it came to changing history or producing music that was unlike anything else (Jam & Lewis, maybe to some extent, given the strong influence their work had on R&B history, but as they always positioned themselves as producers not solo artists, it's hard to compare).

I knew something was a little off when I wrote that.

I love someone like Eric Leeds, but the few albums he released after his tenure with Prince leave me completely cold. (I should probably give "No Words" another listen.) It gives me the impression that he did his best work while with Prince, which is kind of ironic for someone as critical of what Prince was doing as him.

And it's the same with all his other collaborators (with maybe a few exceptions).

Ida Nielsen recently gave a concert in Montreux, which is a 30-minute drive from where I live, but I couldn't find the motivation to go. Again, she's a fine musician. I even bought some of her albums.

On the other hand, I will drive 4 hours to see Louis Cole in Milan in July. Like you wrote, I need someone with a vision. Someone who releases stuff. Someone who touches me. Directly. Not via the work of someone else.

olb99 said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

Agreed, but great musician + great musician doesnt necessarily = great results [Edited 6/7/24 0:13am]

Not always. But a musician like Miles Davis regularly surrounded himself with great musicians and it worked pretty well for him (John Coltrane, Bill Evans, Wayne Shorter, and many more). It's not a coincidence Miles was (probably) more open to a collaboration than the other way round.

yeah, miles surrounded himself with musicians who went on to have great solo careers in their own right.

for prince i think it was more just about getting musicians who would execute what he wanted, he didnt care that much about their input, esp after the 80s really. not to say that he didnt have bands for diff purposes - eg the npg were quite diff to the revolution, the early 00s band were quite diff to the earlier npg, but he didn't care for musicians with their own 'sound' or ideas that much, esp after the 80s. he just wanted people who would work within his demands. ultimately i think its cos prince thought he could always just do what another musician could do (for the most part, there are some exceptions ofc), so there was little interest in what someone else could bring, it was about getting someone to stand in for him.

and prince would never have done what joni mitchell did and record with great jazz players in the 70s. on one hand it was prob that he liked to give new people a chance, but it was prob also that he wanted control and knew that less established people would push back, or would be more adaptable to his ways of working.

olb99 said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

databank said:

Eric's biggest influence are Weather Report, idk if you're into them?

And I'm happy to see some love for Louis Cole. This MF definitely does have a vision. I almost saw Knower live in Vienne in 2017, back when i could still attend concerts, but sadly I missed the show at the last minute.

I'm familiar with Weather Report. Not enough, though. I should listen to more of their albums. I saw Joe Zawinul and Wayne Shorter in concert independently as well.

Louis Cole: I don't love him; I'm currently obsessed with him. I can't wait for his next album (August).

I'll try and give Eric another chance.

heavy weather is the classic weather report album. slicker and more commercial than their earlier stuff, but the compositions and playing are so, so good. incredible album.