I'm reading Maceo's authobiography, which prompted me to read some stuff about James Brown, and I found this litle gem (https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/how-james-browns-star-time-revolutionized-the-box-set-game-and-cemented-his-legacy/):

.

Leeds moonlighted on Star Time while holding down a day job in Minneapolis. “I was actually running Prince’s Paisley Park label,” he says. “I would stay late and work on this stuff after-hours, so I didn’t feel like I was cheating Prince.” One night, his boss—whose outtakes had been bootlegged for years—paid Leeds a surprise visit while he was playing the session reel for the funky 1969 hit “Give It Up or Turnit a Loose.”

“Prince walked in and, of course, he was familiar with the record. But what he was hearing was an unissued portion. He just looked at me funny and said, ‘What is that?’ And he started dancing around the office. He was just grooving to this thing: ‘Oh, my god, that is so dope, that is so dope.’ And suddenly, he caught himself. It was like a light switch was turned. He stopped dancing and looked at me, and he said, ‘Does James Brown know you have this?’ I said, ‘Yes, he knows we’re working on this. We have his blessings.’ And he said, ‘Well, I don’t think you should have that.’” As Prince turned to leave, he offered a parting shot: “I can guarantee you nobody’s going to be doing this with my catalog after I’m gone.”

.

I know he later said his vault will be released after he's gone, but how ironic...

I guess he changed his mind at some point.

databank said:

I can't find the quote but he did change his mind. A few years before he passed he told an interviewer others would release his archives after he goes. . It's also possible he always thought that and he was just being cocky with Alan Leeds.

He said that on The View. Start at 3:37 mark.

TrivialPursuit said:

databank said:

TrivialPursuit said:

He said that on The View. Start at 3:37 mark.

Thanks

I don't know why that one sticks in my head, but good on us talking about it.

uhm... Prince has had solar panels on his Paisley Park since 2012 ?
Sorry about that.
-
Back to the topic... Prince can change his mind,
as we all do. Especially as he gets older.
Remember that what Prince had in the vault in 1990,
had certainly doubled (or more) by the time of 2012.
And then you start thinking differently, even after you are "free" to release what you want.
He piled up even more I think, but of course I'm not sure, I'm just trying to calculate.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
He didn't let go 'more' I think after he was allowed to do what he wanted because he was 'free' so to speak.
Again, an interesting equation to explore....

Vannormal said:

databank said:

I can't find the quote but he did change his mind. A few years before he passed he told an interviewer others would release his archives after he goes. . It's also possible he always thought that and he was just being cocky with Alan Leeds. [Edited 5/26/24 8:59am]

Sounds more like the part in bold to me. Mr Leeds has been a James Brown employee, and now was a Prince employee. I can figure out Prince's excited reaction hearing some unreleased bit of one of his heroes, and then be on guard about his own business the very next minute.

And then again, wasn't it known (common folklore - can't think of a quote or source to this) that he owned James Brown bootlegs in his collection?

leecaldon said:

I guess he changed his mind at some point.

Typical Gemini.

paisleyparkgirl said:

leecaldon said:

I guess he changed his mind at some point.

Typical Gemini.

Astrology is fake. It's a typical human thing. People change their minds. That is not unique to some made up astrology nonsense.

As Neil Degrasse Tyson said, "the universe doesn't care about you. The reason people try to make it into something when they were born or whatever is nothing but pure ego."

TrivialPursuit said:

I recall him making a similar comment about the Tupac holgram at Coachella. Something like he didn't want something like that to be done with him and it was demonic or something.

Having watched the Abba Voyage hologram thing recently they could do an amazing show with Prince.

I am well aware it is cheesy, but this is still a guy who did American Idol.

[Edited 5/28/24 9:11am]

elephant said:

I recall him making a similar comment about the Tupac holgram at Coachella. Something like he didn't want something like that to be done with him and it was demonic or something.

Having watched the Abba Voyage hologram thing recently they could do an amazing show with Prince.

I am well aware it is cheesy, but this is still a guy who did American Idol.

[Edited 5/28/24 9:11am]

How do those things work (I've never seen one)?

Do you have the audience behaving as if it was a real concert, cheering and clapping and doing call and response chants with the hologram as if they were the real performer?

Or is it more lijke watching a concert film where everyone just watches and listen quietly?

I'm asking because if the first reply is the right one, we're one step closer to not being able to differenciate the way we react to/interact with robots/A.I.s from the way we react to/interact with other humans

Fuck you, a.i.!!!

Interesting topic.

Prince refreshed many archive tracks for his 1990 'Graffiti Bridge' project.

Vannormal said:

Back to the topic... Prince can change his mind,
as we all do. Especially as he gets older.

Prince changed his mind every day of his life, young or old. He woke up in a new world every day.

databank said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Astrology is fake. It's a typical human thing. People change their minds. That is not unique to some made up astrology nonsense.

As Neil Degrasse Tyson said, "the universe doesn't care about you. The reason people try to make it into something when they were born or whatever is nothing but pure ego."

I agree, but I really wasn't going to get into that

I also agree

databank said:

elephant said:

I recall him making a similar comment about the Tupac holgram at Coachella. Something like he didn't want something like that to be done with him and it was demonic or something.

Having watched the Abba Voyage hologram thing recently they could do an amazing show with Prince.

I am well aware it is cheesy, but this is still a guy who did American Idol.

[Edited 5/28/24 9:11am]

How do those things work (I've never seen one)?

Do you have the audience behaving as if it was a real concert, cheering and clapping and doing call and response chants with the hologram as if they were the real performer?

Or is it more lijke watching a concert film where everyone just watches and listen quietly?

I'm asking because if the first reply is the right one, we're one step closer to not being able to differenciate the way we react to/interact with robots/A.I.s from the way we react to/interact with other humans

Hard to descibe, it is the mix of a live concert (live band and back-up singers) a massive visual display which goes around the whole arena and then the holograms performing on the stage. They interect with the crowd, but it is pre-recorded - the normal inbetween songs chat and banter, costume changes. You forget they aren't real, I was way to the back so maybe they are more glitchy if you are close up. The production is incredible. The whole arena being being used, lighting that comes down over the audience - a standing section on the floor, dance booths and then regular arena stype seating. I read somewhere the production cost something like $140 million and it shows. I don't see Prince would get backed to that level - Abba have such a broad audience, my group ranged from my 9 year old daughter to 77 year old mother. They were busing in the pensioners, then there were hen parties, big gay crowd of course.

There are sections which are more like a movie in this production, some anime and then a compliation section. The best bit is the believability of the holograms though.

Very strict on taking pictures in the auditorium (that was familiar!) so don't think you will find much on youtube.

elephant said:

the prince of 95 or so, when he was an internet evangelist, might have been pro hologram

but as he got more and more anti tech in a lot of ways, and more luddite, you knew he would never be that adventurous

but yeah, it would have been cool for him to have adopted the concept early on and tried it out in a bigger context

but im guessing he would have thought he would have preferred to have just toured himself while he could do it and make a lot of money rather than invest a lot of money into a hologram tour

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

databank said:

Vannormal said:

uhm... Prince has had solar panels on his Paisley Park since 2012 ?
Sorry about that.
-
Back to the topic... Prince can change his mind,
as we all do. Especially as he gets older.
Remember that what Prince had in the vault in 1990,
had certainly doubled (or more) by the time of 2012.
And then you start thinking differently, even after you are "free" to release what you want.
He piled up even more I think, but of course I'm not sure, I'm just trying to calculate.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
He didn't let go 'more' I think after he was allowed to do what he wanted because he was 'free' so to speak.
Again, an interesting equation to explore....

It appears there was a short window when he wanted to open the vault between 1997 and 2001, then he was apparently blocked by WB and moved on. By 2012, based on the View interview, he clearly had this "I don't want to look back" attitude he was famous for. Then he got his masters back (but who knows what that deal involved when it came to WB era vault material). Who knows what he'd have done had he lived another 20 years... . [Edited 5/26/24 14:41pm]

I hear it all the time..."Prince not looking back", for what he is known for...

Honestly, on how many of his albums he used songs written years before?

Not every album was a brand new idea or concept, like Lovesexy or D&P were.

Many of Prince's pre-1991 albums had rerecorded tracks from the vault.

And later, other albums also used older (re- or recorded) tracks.

For instance, Planet Earth has songs from three years before.

Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic, we all know the track from 1988.

The Musicology album has also a few songs from 1997 and 1999.

Lotus Flower, has five tracks recorded five years before.

The album 20TEN has a few songs from four years earlier, and one from even older then ten years.

After 1998, Prince played basically only his biggest hits for nearly 20 years in live shows.

Rarely a live track from any new release.

Whatever, just my 2cents.

databank said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

the prince of 95 or so, when he was an internet evangelist, might have been pro hologram

but as he got more and more anti tech in a lot of ways, and more luddite, you knew he would never be that adventurous

but yeah, it would have been cool for him to have adopted the concept early on and tried it out in a bigger context

but im guessing he would have thought he would have preferred to have just toured himself while he could do it and make a lot of money rather than invest a lot of money into a hologram tour

If if costs that much, of course. Nevertheless, from 1997 to 2016 (with a few exceptions like the ONA Tour), I was truly sad to wonder what it would have been to be able to hear Prince playing mostly his newer material, as he did in the first part of his career, instead of endless repetitions of the same songs over and over again, just because a bunch of uneducated listeners left the venue when he tried playing unheard material in 1995. We all love recognizing a song we know, but this inability for audiences to enjoy good music if they're not familiar with makes me want to puke. Because these idiots would only pay to hear Purple Rain and Kiss, we were deprived of 20 years of exciting shows... and so was Prince 😔 Admittedly, though, had Prince been willing to renounce making a million bucks a show, he could have played whatever he wanted in smaller venues. Yet, it's frustrating.

In the end, I see that as two sides of the same coin. Prince made exciting music, because he was so irrational (and, hence, frustrating). But, yeah, I have a lot of "what if" questions/scenarios in mind with him.

What if he had really embraced his "non-mainstream" side?

What if he had collaborated with great musicians? I mean, he employed a lot of good musicians, but when it came to people such as Miles Davis, he didn't know what to do.

Vannormal said:

databank said:

Vannormal said: It appears there was a short window when he wanted to open the vault between 1997 and 2001, then he was apparently blocked by WB and moved on. By 2012, based on the View interview, he clearly had this "I don't want to look back" attitude he was famous for. Then he got his masters back (but who knows what that deal involved when it came to WB era vault material). Who knows what he'd have done had he lived another 20 years... . [Edited 5/26/24 14:41pm]

I hear it all the time..."Prince not looking back", for what he is known for...

Honestly, on how many of his albums he used songs written years before?

Not every album was a brand new idea or concept, like Lovesexy or D&P were.

Many of Prince's pre-1991 albums had rerecorded tracks from the vault.

And later, other albums also used older (re- or recorded) tracks.

For instance, Planet Earth has songs from three years before.

Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic, we all know the track from 1988.

The Musicology album has also a few songs from 1997 and 1999.

Lotus Flower, has five tracks recorded five years before.

The album 20TEN has a few songs from four years earlier, and one from even older then ten years.

After 1998, Prince played basically only his biggest hits for nearly 20 years in live shows.

Rarely a live track from any new release.

Whatever, just my 2cents.

"Re-recorded" being the key.

He typically re-recorded them with substantially different production/arrangement decisions, almost always in-line with his newer material. Like the 90s "1,000 Hugs and Kisses" is completely different from "1000 X's & O's", same "song" okay, but a completely different spin.

The live jukebox thing was him just him trying to pay the bills. The Musicology Tour showed him what breaking out "the hits" could pay, and he never looked back from that either.

[Edited 6/5/24 2:31am]

WhisperingDandelions said:

olb99 said:

olb99 said:

databank said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said: If if costs that much, of course. Nevertheless, from 1997 to 2016 (with a few exceptions like the ONA Tour), I was truly sad to wonder what it would have been to be able to hear Prince playing mostly his newer material, as he did in the first part of his career, instead of endless repetitions of the same songs over and over again, just because a bunch of uneducated listeners left the venue when he tried playing unheard material in 1995. We all love recognizing a song we know, but this inability for audiences to enjoy good music if they're not familiar with makes me want to puke. Because these idiots would only pay to hear Purple Rain and Kiss, we were deprived of 20 years of exciting shows... and so was Prince 😔 Admittedly, though, had Prince been willing to renounce making a million bucks a show, he could have played whatever he wanted in smaller venues. Yet, it's frustrating.

In the end, I see that as two sides of the same coin. Prince made exciting music, because he was so irrational (and, hence, frustrating). But, yeah, I have a lot of "what if" questions/scenarios in mind with him.

What if he had really embraced his "non-mainstream" side?

What if he had collaborated with great musicians? I mean, he employed a lot of good musicians, but when it came to people such as Miles Davis, he didn't know what to do.

Thinking about your post again, there was something that bugged me that I couldn't pinpoint, and it's really just a matter of scale, but I personally would phrase it one of these two ways:

.

- What if he had collaborated with other geniuses? I mean, he employed a lot of great musicians, but when it came to people such as Miles Davis, he didn't know what to do.

- What if he had collaborated with great artists? I mean, he employed a lot of good artists, but when it came to people such as Miles Davis, he didn't know what to do.

.

Because when it comes to technical skills, I think most of Prince's bandmembers were top of the game. But being on top of your game doesn't mean you're an important artist from a historical perspective, like Miles Davis was. Most of Prince's collaborators were amazing players, but none displayed an artistic vision -as concept makers, composers, arrangers and producers- that made them anywhere as historically important, influential or remarkable as Prince. And I mean no disrespect by saying this. Most were remarkable musicians, songwriters, arrangers, producers, etc., but none were in Prince's or Miles' league when it came to changing history or producing music that was unlike anything else (Jam & Lewis, maybe to some extent, given the strong influence their work had on R&B history, but as they always positioned themselves as producers not solo artists, it's hard to compare).