SpookyPurple said:

lurker316 said:

"Everyone" says that? I've literally heard no one but you suggest that.

if that's how you feel, fine. It's subjective and you're entitiled to your opinion. But don't project it onto the general Prince fan base. I mean, I not completely opposed to hyperbole, and I might not protest your use of the term "eveyone" if most fans shared your opinion, but I doubt that's the case.

You haven't heard anyone mention that they think the production on Emacipation is junk and that if you put all your favs on one disc it would be really strong? Pretty sure I've read threads here on the org stating just that. Regardless, dude is just making a generalization. Not sure why you're getting worked up about his use of the word "everyone". He just means "lots of people". Which is accurate.

A.) With respect to your first point, yes, I've heard some people suggest Emancipation would be a "strong" disc with some trimming and production changes. But no, I've not heard many people, let along a majority, say it would be "one of [Prince's] best."

B.) As for your second point, the problem isn't that he generalized; the problem is that the generalization isn't even generally true, let alone mostly true. As I wrote in my earlie post: "I not completely opposed to hyperbole, and I might not protest your use of the term "eveyone" if most fans shared your opinion, but I doubt that's the case."

[Edited 11/6/23 11:55am]

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

i dont think the production is junk, but like a lot of fans think, its a bit too safe, clean, and sterile. but it doesnt totally ruin the album for me (but its a triple so that was always going to be a challenging listen). theres just too many things that would be better as b-sides or given to other artists (a bit like the more generic D&P vault tracks). but if you make a good single album from it, it actually could be the best prince album of the 90s. its also the most typically prince album of the 90s except the truth maybe in that it sounds mostly like one man in the studio, without the live/band sounding style of most of the 90s albums. i know he did that again on rave, but its better than rave.

I disagree. To me, the production is terrible. The drum patterns Prince used in the '80s were fresh and innovative, sounding like nothing else on the radio. He was ahead of the times.

In contrast, the drum patterns on Emancipation were simple, lame and dated, sounding like what was on the radio five years previous. Prince was behing the times.

lurker316 said:

SpookyPurple said:

You haven't heard anyone mention that they think the production on Emacipation is junk and that if you put all your favs on one disc it would be really strong? Pretty sure I've read threads here on the org stating just that. Regardless, dude is just making a generalization. Not sure why you're getting worked up about his use of the word "everyone". He just means "lots of people". Which is accurate.

A.) With respect to your first point, yes, I've heard some people suggest Emancipation would be a "strong" disc with some trimming and production changes. But no, I've not heard many people, let along a majority, say it would be "one of [Prince's] best."

B.) As for your second point, the problem isn't that he generalized; the problem is that the generalization isn't even generally true, let alone mostly true. As I wrote in my earlie post: "I not completely opposed to hyperbole, and I might not protest your use of the term "eveyone" if most fans shared your opinion, but I doubt that's the case."

[Edited 11/6/23 11:55am]

Is that still really a problem? We're just talking about music here, anonymously at that. No one is confronting us in the real world based on generalizations someone might make in this forum. I'm glad you also think Emancipation production is junk, too. Let's bond over that instead

lurker316 said:

lurker316 said:

something about the drum patterns on 'Emancipation' were not "prince standards"

KAJ Productions, y'all!

i dont think the drum programming on emancipation is dated actually. it doesnt sound like a lot of the timbaland copyists at the time in rnb. and it doesnt sound like rnb from the early 90s either. its actually quite individual. the problem for me is that the sounds are actually kind of uninteresting. and also a bit 'dead' or something (ie zero reverb). its all so 'dry' and 'small' and a bit thin/cheap sounding. also just too neat. and not much warmth in there. but some of the patterns are good - like on in this bed eye scream, joint 2 joint, human body, jam of the year (this one has a bit more fatness to it).

[Edited 11/6/23 14:29pm]

For some I'm sure and that's just dandy and such. For me it goes:

Not counting Crystal Ball and The Black Album

1. Gold

2. Symbol

3, Chaos

4. Come

5. D&P

6. Emacnipation

7. Grafitti

8. The Vault

9. Rave

10.Truth

thisisreece said:

nayroo2002 said:

lurker316 said:

Something about the drum patterns on Emancipation were not "Prince standards."

KAJ Productions, y'all!

I always thought that Kirk Johnson argument was slightly misguided. It wasn't the drum programming per se (other than the fact that a lot of the songs would've benefited greatly by live drums). It was the overall production.

It was that dry, flattened, compressed sound. Where was the reverb, the openness, the echo, the big room sound? It was the least offending, though. It got worse with NewPowerSoul and onward.

My list runs

-Exodus

-The Gold Experience

-The Truth

-

-Diamonds and Pearls

-Emancipation

It is interesting reading what everyone thinks and really bolsters the case IMHO for an in depth treatment of every album, but I`m just unashamadly greedy and want them to release every note.

[Edited 11/7/23 0:50am]

lurker316 said:

The Undertaker to me is his best of the 90s

JorisE73 said:

SoulAlive said:

SpookyPurple said:

boomshaka said:

SoulAlive said:

TGE is the Purple Rain of the 90s

Absolutely not

Absolutely is. It has all the hallmarks of Purple Rain, plus more.

Rock opener, duet, ballad, anthem, funk workout, overtly sexual - it's all there. It's also just as commercial and varied as PR ever was.

TrivialPursuit said:

boomshaka said:

SoulAlive said: Absolutely not

Absolutely is. It has all the hallmarks of Purple Rain, plus more.

Rock opener, duet, ballad, anthem, funk workout, overtly sexual - it's all there. It's also just as commercial and varied as PR ever was.

Isn't that every Prince album?

TrivialPursuit said:

boomshaka said:

SoulAlive said: Absolutely not

Absolutely is. It has all the hallmarks of Purple Rain, plus more.

Rock opener, duet, ballad, anthem, funk workout, overtly sexual - it's all there. It's also just as commercial and varied as PR ever was.

While I love The Gold Experience, I think the main difference between it and Purple Rain is that Purple Rain actually sounded cool and fresh back then and even today, whereas, for the most part, The Gold Experience did not sound fresh or cool back then or today. Just my opinion.

SpookyPurple said:

While I love The Gold Experience, I think the main difference between it and Purple Rain is that Purple Rain actually sounded cool and fresh back then and even today, whereas, for the most part, The Gold Experience did not sound fresh or cool back then or today. Just my opinion.

I'd have to disagree. The worst part of it is that it got overlooked because of the fight with WB and Come and all that. It got lost in all that negative press, etc.

But if you look at 1995 in music, you're inundated with things like Coolio, Shaggy, bad U2 songs, schmaltzy ballads from MJ or Vanessa Williams, shit like "Lump" by POTUS, and fucking Hootie & The Blowfish, and Jon Secada.

The best thing that had an edge at the same time was "You Oughta Know" by Alanis or maybe something from Radiohead.

Also, the 80s were always new. New tech, new keyboards, new recording methods, etc. So of course PR sounded fresh and new. Even 1999 sounded new at that point.

For me, The Gold Experience still packs a major punch.

Rock opener, duet, ballad, anthem, funk workout, overtly sexual - it's all there. It's also just as commercial and varied as PR ever was.

it doesnt matter whether it follows the apparent PR blueprint or not.

PR was carefully writted, crafted, edited so it didnt waste a second.

TGE, except for the title song and TMBGITW, was not nearly as focused. ultimately, it just doesnt have as many great songs. pretty much every PR song is a prince classic.

no one is going to be singing p control decades from now like they will lets go crazy.

shhh will not become a classic ballad like the beautiful ones.

TGE has no career-defining single like when doves cry (yes theres TMBGITW but i mean, great as it is, that was prince going MOR).

TGE is a fan favourite, and thats cool, but it wont really become much more than that, no matter how much fans believe it to be the best thing he did in the 90s. much of that ranking is due to the story around it. its got a whole mythology to boost it.

albums that made 95 a great year - radiohead's the bends, trickys maxinquaye, mobb deep's the infamous, bjork's post, raekwons only built for cuban linx. ill love prince forever but he didnt release a better album than those in 95.

[Edited 11/7/23 14:19pm]

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

i dont think the drum programming on emancipation is dated actually. it doesnt sound like a lot of the timbaland copyists at the time in rnb. and it doesnt sound like rnb from the early 90s either. its actually quite individual. the problem for me is that the sounds are actually kind of uninteresting. and also a bit 'dead' or something (ie zero reverb). its all so 'dry' and 'small' and a bit thin/cheap sounding. also just too neat. and not much warmth in there. but some of the patterns are good - like on in this bed eye scream, joint 2 joint, human body, jam of the year (this one has a bit more fatness to it).

[Edited 11/6/23 14:29pm]

The problem was the drum programming not only didn't sound like the current programming of the time but it didn't sound new or ahead of its time either. It sounded stale and simplistic. In fact that and Prince trying to appropriate current slang kind of hit me the wrong way. Ultimately, his forays into hip hop/rap failed on two fronts. Those of us who love and grew up with hip hop cringe at some of those elements in Prince's music because they were noticeably inauthentic. Those who didn't know or like hip hop to begin with certainly wouldn't be on board with Prince's attempts to incorporate it.

TrivialPursuit said:

SpookyPurple said:

While I love The Gold Experience, I think the main difference between it and Purple Rain is that Purple Rain actually sounded cool and fresh back then and even today, whereas, for the most part, The Gold Experience did not sound fresh or cool back then or today. Just my opinion.

I'd have to disagree. The worst part of it is that it got overlooked because of the fight with WB and Come and all that. It got lost in all that negative press, etc.

But if you look at 1995 in music, you're inundated with things like Coolio, Shaggy, bad U2 songs, schmaltzy ballads from MJ or Vanessa Williams, shit like "Lump" by POTUS, and fucking Hootie & The Blowfish, and Jon Secada.

The best thing that had an edge at the same time was "You Oughta Know" by Alanis or maybe something from Radiohead.

Also, the 80s were always new. New tech, new keyboards, new recording methods, etc. So of course PR sounded fresh and new. Even 1999 sounded new at that point.

For me, The Gold Experience still packs a major punch.

Now I'll have to disagree haha. You rightfully mentioned all the crap that came out in 1995 but if you were an alt rock/grunge fan, my god, there was so much great stuff that remains classic. And stuff that simply relied on guitars, drum and bass - instruments that had been around for decades. It's not the tech that made PR sound fresh - or the tech that makes something new sound fresh today - it's the production, music, lyrics and overall vibe in conjunction with the times. It's not edge that I'm talking about, I'm just talking about music that feels current and "cool" however one can quantify that. At least when I was in a large high school during mid to late 90s, absolutely no one listened to P except me. He remained a massive public icon but musically, his time as a trendsetter had passed. I still loved the music but recognized it wasn't "cool" whereas so much of P's earlier output still sounds cool today.

Agree with everything Funky said before me.

TrivialPursuit said:

lol....not even close.

whodknee said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

i dont think the drum programming on emancipation is dated actually. it doesnt sound like a lot of the timbaland copyists at the time in rnb. and it doesnt sound like rnb from the early 90s either. its actually quite individual. the problem for me is that the sounds are actually kind of uninteresting. and also a bit 'dead' or something (ie zero reverb). its all so 'dry' and 'small' and a bit thin/cheap sounding. also just too neat. and not much warmth in there. but some of the patterns are good - like on in this bed eye scream, joint 2 joint, human body, jam of the year (this one has a bit more fatness to it).

[Edited 11/6/23 14:29pm]

The problem was the drum programming not only didn't sound like the current programming of the time but it didn't sound new or ahead of its time either. It sounded stale and simplistic. In fact that and Prince trying to appropriate current slang kind of hit me the wrong way. Ultimately, his forays into hip hop/rap failed on two fronts. Those of us who love and grew up with hip hop cringe at some of those elements in Prince's music because they were noticeably inauthentic. Those who didn't know or like hip hop to begin with certainly wouldn't be on board with Prince's attempts to incorporate it.

prince never really used much slang in his music during his first decade or so (i mean, there were a few occasions, but by and large, no). so hearing him suddenly trying to adopt slang, or say things like 'come and get your cum on' (lol) on one kiss at a time, sounded a little bit funny/silly (maybe theres female fans who thought this was sexy, idk).

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

whodknee said:

The problem was the drum programming not only didn't sound like the current programming of the time but it didn't sound new or ahead of its time either. It sounded stale and simplistic. In fact that and Prince trying to appropriate current slang kind of hit me the wrong way. Ultimately, his forays into hip hop/rap failed on two fronts. Those of us who love and grew up with hip hop cringe at some of those elements in Prince's music because they were noticeably inauthentic. Those who didn't know or like hip hop to begin with certainly wouldn't be on board with Prince's attempts to incorporate it.

prince never really used much slang in his music during his first decade or so (i mean, there were a few occasions, but by and large, no). so hearing him suddenly trying to adopt slang, or say things like 'come and get your cum on' (lol) on one kiss at a time, sounded a little bit funny/silly (maybe theres female fans who thought this was sexy, idk).

That line always worked for me. As did every aspect of that song.

1. TGE
2. Come
3. Exodus
4. Symbol
5. D&P
6. The Vault
7. Chaos
8. The Truth
9. Emancipation
20. Rave. Ugh.

phunkymunky said: