Kares said:

Ndorphinmachina said:

Kares said:

.
DAT's popularity in the '90s is really a pain in the butt as the format has so many issues, indeed! It wasn't even designed as a professional format (S-DAT was) but it was cheap and convenient so a lot of studios jumped on it, unfortunately.
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Anyway, recording in 32kHz mode can indeed result in a restricted frequency response. But according to an old list I have with Paisley's equipment, P had Sony PCM-7030 and Panasonic SV-3700 DATs – neither of them capable of 32kHz mode.
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But why on earth would he do a MIXDOWN to a 32kHz DAT? (unless accidentally). The price of DAT cassettes really couldn't have been an issue to him – they were already far cheaper than half inch analog tapes.

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I'm really baffled at this Insatiable master. It's not only limited at 16K (as mp3s are), it also sounds like it really is an mp3. I just don't know what to say...

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[Edited 8/26/23 6:48am]

I'm clutching at straws here, but surely it is an MP3? I mean ripped from the CD (which is hopefully better quality) converted to MP3 and played over the audio of the YouTube "video"? It would then have been processed twice? The initial conversion & by YouTube? The Estate has a prior in this kind of thing.

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It's not the YT-version I'm talking about, but the hi-res file (24bit/44.1kHz) that came from Qobuz, I believe.

[Edited 8/26/23 7:24am]

Kares said:

Ndorphinmachina said:

Kares said: I'm clutching at straws here, but surely it is an MP3? I mean ripped from the CD (which is hopefully better quality) converted to MP3 and played over the audio of the YouTube "video"? It would then have been processed twice? The initial conversion & by YouTube? The Estate has a prior in this kind of thing.

.
It's not the YT-version I'm talking about, but the hi-res file (24bit/44.1kHz) that came from Qobuz, I believe.

[Edited 8/26/23 7:24am]

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If we're talking about a real lossy source and not just a 16 kHz cutoff, then I'm baffled as well. I've not listened to the FLAC version yet, but I trust your ears.

.

I mean, this is something that obviously happened long after the recording, but why?

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I hope Prince didn't decide sometime in the 00s/10s to transfer some of his recordings to MP3 and get rid of the original tapes. That wouldn't make any sense.

.

Do we have a list somewhere of all previous cases of lossy-sourced tracks (Velvet Kitty Cat, Can I Play With U?, etc.)?

olb99 said:

Kares said:

.
It's not the YT-version I'm talking about, but the hi-res file (24bit/44.1kHz) that came from Qobuz, I believe.

[Edited 8/26/23 7:24am]

.

If we're talking about a real lossy source and not just a 16 kHz cutoff, then I'm baffled as well. I've not listened to the FLAC version yet, but I trust your ears.

.

I mean, this is something that obviously happened long after the recording, but why?

.

I hope Prince didn't decide sometime in the 00s/10s to transfer some of his recordings to MP3 and get rid of the original tapes. That wouldn't make any sense.

.

Do we have a list somewhere of all previous cases of lossy-sourced tracks (Velvet Kitty Cat, Can I Play With U?, etc.)?

.
I'm just listening to it again, more carefully. I can't say that it's mp3 for sure, maybe it's not, but there are many things that are wrong, much more than just the cut at 16k. All the vocals are missing almost all sibilants, and that range is way below 16k, at around 5k. The mix is draft (at best) too. So many issues...

Again, no link in the first post

This is NOT the Org i signed up for decades ago...

nayroo2002 said:

I'll show my ----, if u show your----

nayroo2002 said:

I'll show my ----, if u show your----

The fact that those stupid keyboard hits are NOT present in this early version is what solidifies it as superior to the album version, for me.

That organ keyboard sound he peppered throughout the album sounded like a cheap Casio keyboard. I'm glad it's not present on the early mix.

TrivialPursuit said:

nayroo2002 said:

I'll show my ----, if u show your----

The fact that those stupid keyboard hits are NOT present in this early version is what solidifies it as superior to the album version, for me.

That organ keyboard sound he peppered throughout the album sounded like a cheap Casio keyboard. I'm glad it's not present on the early mix.

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Cheap synths / presets / kitsch / new-age sounds are all part of Prince's sound.

.

In all seriousness: I'm not sure you can find a single Prince album without them. Even (especially?) my favorite album, Lovesexy, is no exception.

antonb said:

Kares said:

fredmagnus said:

Kares said:

.
I'm just listening to it again, more carefully. I can't say that it's mp3 for sure, maybe it's not, but there are many things that are wrong, much more than just the cut at 16k. All the vocals are missing almost all sibilants, and that range is way below 16k, at around 5k. The mix is draft (at best) too. So many issues...

I'm not sure it's MP3 sourced despite the cut at 16Khz. I don't think it has something to do with the use of DATs since we've already had that issue with 80's Vault tracks on previous releases. IIRC P started to use DAT in the early 90's. I recall some of the Dream Factory tracks had the same issue on the SOTT SDE and I checked the lossless bootleg sources and they had the same frequency cut. "Colors" was one of the tracks cut at 16Khz. Same here if you check the D&P Beginnings lossless tape. You have the same cut at 16Khz. I sure would love to have an explanation for this issue. [Edited 8/27/23 8:10am]

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Using DAT normally does not result in a cut above 16kHz – only using it in 32kHz mode (as opposed to the standard settings of 44.1kHz and 48kHz) does. But the two DAT models that Paisley had don't even have the 32kHz mode. (And of course there would be no logical explanation to why Prince would use the low-quality mode either.)
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And as I mentioned, the vocals on Insatiable are even more severly limited (at arount 5kHz), so there must be some other, weird explanation for all these issues.

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(By the way, I have an original DAT tape from Paisley but it's in storage currently – but I'll check it out when I can, to see if I notice anything strange about it. But I'm pretty sure it's a 48kHz recording.)

[Edited 8/27/23 8:40am]

olb99 said:

Cheap synths / presets / kitsch / new-age sounds are all part of Prince's sound.

.

In all seriousness: I'm not sure you can find a single Prince album without them. Even (especially?) my favorite album, Lovesexy, is no exception.

I'd agree. It started to bleed in on Lovesexy, and carried through Diamonds and Pearls. But not so much on . Some of the stuff on Graffiti Bridge has it as well, yet Batman seems more tame with it. I know we think of Sign O The Times and Lovesexy as sister albums sometimes because of the band, but really - Lovesexy was the shift in his style for a while, until about 1992 or so.

What's odd is that "Cream" has such smooth production, everything is just right. But when you hear it on Arsenio or in a live setting, it's thin and that fucking cheap synth sound is there. BLAH.

When you listen to the stems from "Let's Go Crazy," that keyboard riff sounds super cheap. But in the song as a whole, they sound great.

Jimmy Jam used to say he loved using the presets in a keyboard. And noted how the weird hook on "What Have You Done For Me Lately" isn't some filter. It's the built-in steel drums. But when you play it an octave or two lower - now you have an iconic sound and hook for that song.

Prince was good with that, too. But in this short era - he needed some EQ. SOMEONE needed to turn a fucking knob somewhere. hahahaha

Kares said:

olb99 said:

.

If we're talking about a real lossy source and not just a 16 kHz cutoff, then I'm baffled as well. I've not listened to the FLAC version yet, but I trust your ears.

.

I mean, this is something that obviously happened long after the recording, but why?

.

I hope Prince didn't decide sometime in the 00s/10s to transfer some of his recordings to MP3 and get rid of the original tapes. That wouldn't make any sense.

.

Do we have a list somewhere of all previous cases of lossy-sourced tracks (Velvet Kitty Cat, Can I Play With U?, etc.)?

.
I'm just listening to it again, more carefully. I can't say that it's mp3 for sure, maybe it's not, but there are many things that are wrong, much more than just the cut at 16k. All the vocals are missing almost all sibilants, and that range is way below 16k, at around 5k. The mix is draft (at best) too. So many issues...

It's a work in progress version. I would better have the finished version that was supposed to be on the album, but of course they left that one essential track off.

TrivialPursuit said:

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

TrivialPursuit said:

I'd agree. It started to bleed in on Lovesexy, and carried through Diamonds and Pearls. But not so much on . Some of the stuff on Graffiti Bridge has it as well, yet Batman seems more tame with it. I know we think of Sign O The Times and Lovesexy as sister albums sometimes because of the band, but really - Lovesexy was the shift in his style for a while, until about 1992 or so.

What's odd is that "Cream" has such smooth production, everything is just right. But when you hear it on Arsenio or in a live setting, it's thin and that fucking cheap synth sound is there. BLAH.

When you listen to the stems from "Let's Go Crazy," that keyboard riff sounds super cheap. But in the song as a whole, they sound great.

Jimmy Jam used to say he loved using the presets in a keyboard. And noted how the weird hook on "What Have You Done For Me Lately" isn't some filter. It's the built-in steel drums. But when you play it an octave or two lower - now you have an iconic sound and hook for that song.

Prince was good with that, too. But in this short era - he needed some EQ. SOMEONE needed to turn a fucking knob somewhere. hahahaha

Sott was the end of his 80s era Lovesexy was something new Same for batman Graffiti bridge was a mopping up of the 80s leftovers with some new stuff like thieves But 91 was a new start, with a new band, new sound etc Emancipation, eg courting time, is rife with cheap sounds lol [Edited 8/28/23 3:08am]

SOTT was the end of the Revolution era.
Lovesexy (but really Black album was the beginning of a new band/era (The New Power Generation)
Batman was a bunch of leftovers and some new things from those last few years (Anna Fantastic and Rave, still really 80s material)

JorisE73 said:

Batman was a bunch of leftovers and some new things from those last few years (Anna Fantastic and Rave, still really 80s material)

nah man, it was directly inspired by/written directly from the perspective of The Joker, Bruce Wayne and the Batman himself. Didn't you read the liner notes?

also nobody considers SOTT/Lovesexy to be linked wtf. SOTT or maybe Black LP signify the end of the 80s prime meridian Prince. Lovesexy is the sneak peek spoiler alert trailer for excess multitrack "perfectionist Prince" era that would get fully fleshed out in the 90s. Batman is sampler of potpourri "Prince doing Prince" Prince that would make its similarly styled return in the mid-to-late00s. Graffito Bridge was new jack swing until everyone loved "Bold Generation" and refreshed princevault.com, now it's 80s Vault mixtape.

[Edited 8/28/23 6:22am]

WhisperingDandelions said:

JorisE73 said:

Batman was a bunch of leftovers and some new things from those last few years (Anna Fantastic and Rave, still really 80s material)

nah man, it was directly inspired by/written directly from the perspective of The Joker, Bruce Wayne and the Batman himself. Didn't you read the liner notes?

You seriously believe that shit?!
Electric Chair was a track from Rave
Partyman was a revamped track from the early 80s
Vicki Waiting is Anna Waiting.
Scandalous was a track recorded during the Lovesexy tour probably as a contender for Rave

[Edited 8/28/23 6:44am]

WhisperingDandelions said:

JorisE73 said:

Batman was a bunch of leftovers and some new things from those last few years (Anna Fantastic and Rave, still really 80s material)

nah man, it was directly inspired by/written directly from the perspective of The Joker, Bruce Wayne and the Batman himself. Didn't you read the liner notes?

also nobody considers SOTT/Lovesexy to be linked wtf. SOTT or maybe Black LP signify the end of the 80s prime meridian Prince. Lovesexy is the sneak peek spoiler alert trailer for excess multitrack "perfectionist Prince" era that would get fully fleshed out in the 90s. Batman is sampler of potpourri "Prince doing Prince" Prince that would make its similarly styled return in the mid-to-late00s. Graffito Bridge was new jack swing until everyone loved "Bold Generation" and refreshed princevault.com, now it's 80s Vault mixtape.

[Edited 8/28/23 6:22am]

I never said anywhere that SOTT and Lovesexy are linked (only the live part of it are linked because of the new band) so I don't know why you are saying that.
It's been explained since the late 90s that Graffiti Bridge was made of leftovers to round up the 80s.

SOTT and lovesexy are only linked live cos of the band

thats the only link.

shame he didnt do more with that band (his best IMO) in the studio.

batman was almost all recorded in 88/89.

ie all new songs, even if partyman was dusted off from the early 80s.

songs recorded a year before release hardly counts as being a vault track.

when do you think albums are recorded? the day before release? lol

[Edited 8/28/23 7:02am]

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

SOTT and lovesexy are only linked live cos of the band

thats the only link.

shame he didnt do more with that band (his best IMO) in the studio.

batman was almost all recorded in 88/89.

ie all new songs, even if partyman was dusted off from the early 80s.

songs recorded a year before release hardly counts as being a vault track.

when do you think albums are recorded? the day before release? lol

[Edited 8/28/23 7:02am]

What are you on about?
The Batman tracks were for other projects is what I'm saying why are you jumping to weird conclusions?

yeah but thats always the case with prince

like how SOTT was made up of multiple albums

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

yeah but thats always the case with prince

like how SOTT was made up of multiple albums

yeah we know that. But I don't see what your posts are supposed to mean other then discussing something because of words.

discussing something because of words.

time to close the boards down

It's a superior version, and why I'd love if we had a streaming service of the mixes, as Prince had a way of overproducing songs that made it onto the albums. This is way funkier, the piano playing is seductive, it sounds as if he is having fun and just hits differently.

RJOrion said:

^Lol...you two are having the most confusing debate ever^

I've tried to avoid all this, but I can't